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Thread: Sweden - Information & Discussion

  1. #121
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Sweden - Graphics Discussion

    Some plates about Swedish uniforms during the GNW :

    INFANTRY :


    CAVALRY :


    MUSICIANS :



    I also found this site about GNW Swedish army : Svenska arméns fälttåg
    They categorize units like this :
    • Infantry :
      • Indelt infanteri
      • Utskrivet infanteri
      • Männingsinfanteri
      • Värvat infanteri (Sverige / Baltikum / Tyskland)
      • Värvade krigsfångar
      • Lantmilis
    • Cavalry :
      • Indelt kavalleri
      • Adelsfanor
      • Ståndsdragoner
      • Männingskavalleri
      • Värvat kavalleri
      • Värvade dragoner


    Late Swedish units plates I've already posted somewhere in TWC :

    INFANTRY :


    CAVALRY :
    Last edited by wangrin; September 30, 2012 at 03:42 AM.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  2. #122
    ErikBerg's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Sweden - Graphics Discussion

    I had a feeling you had that book, as well!

    The early uniforms I've compiled and reconstructed were based on the templates from tacitus.nu (that is, the original models are the work of the website's author) and coloured by myself using information found in Höglund's books. When deciding on what uniforms would be appropriate for the different units I've opted for uniformity within the units, this means that the uniforms of privates, drummers, officers and colour bearers within one unit will be from the same historical regiment, in the extent this was possible.

    The choice of regiments has been done with diversity and good representation in mind; I wanted to avoid having the entire Swedish army dress in blue and yellow, but the regiments still had to be representative of the unit in question. An example: the regular cavalry unit is based on the Southern Scanian cavalry regiment that was dressed mostly in all-blue uniforms throughout the war. I based the dragoon unit on Stenbock's dragoons that wore the blue and yellow uniform, to still have a cavalry unit bearing the typical Swedish colours.

    In some cases, information on officers, drummers and such were missing. In those cases, I chose to fill in the missing gaps with a uniform from another regiment that had similar uniforms. For example, early period Värvat infanteri is based on the garrison regiment of Narva. Information on the drummer was missing, so I gave the unit a drummer from the Pommeranian regiment. I felt this was the most logical choice as both regiments belonged to the same organizational divison of the army, and the uniforms were similar as well: privates of the Narva regiment had blue coats with red distinctives and white scarves with red stripes, drummers of the Pommeranian regiment also had blue coats with red distinctives and the lacing on the coat was white and red.

    But all in all, I'd say I was pretty successful in finding and reconstructing distinct uniforms for each unit in the early period.


    On the unit categorization on tacitus.nu:
    The author has categorized the units according to their exact type, how their were recruited or raised. The categories themselves translate into the following:

    • Infantry :
      • Indelt infanteri - Alloted infantry
      • Utskrivet infanteri - Levied infantry
      • Männingsinfanteri - Männing infantry (I've explained this unit in the first post, under Tremänningsregemente)
      • Värvat infanteri (Sverige / Baltikum / Tyskland) - Enlisted infantry (Sweden / Baltics / Germany)
      • Värvade krigsfångar - Enlisted prisoners of war
      • Lantmilis - County militia
    • Cavalry :
      • Indelt kavalleri - Alloted cavalry
      • Adelsfanor - Banners of nobles
      • Ståndsdragoner - Estate dragoons (as in Estates of the realm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estates...en_and_Finland)
      • Männingskavalleri - Männing cavalry
      • Värvat kavalleri - Enlisted cavalry
      • Värvade dragoner - Enlisted dragoons


    Most of these explain themselves, like the prisoners of war. Others, like estate dragoons, might be harder to understand even for native Swedish speakers. They were called thus because they were raised by nobles, the clergy (estates in the Riksdag) or otherwise wealthy persons. Ultimately, units were organized into two organizational divisons, they were called the allotted army (the provincial regiments) and the enlisted army (guards, artillery and garrisons), respectively.
    Last edited by ErikBerg; October 01, 2012 at 02:24 AM.

  3. #123

    Default Re: Sweden - Graphics Discussion

    But the Swedish heavy cavalry - Reiter.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 









  4. #124
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Sweden - Graphics Discussion

    I will have to create a specific model for both Swedish infantry and cavalry based on French mid-XVIIIth century model (the one with a collar).
    Early-XVIIIth century French and English model aren't accurate here.

    I think that Swedish reiter should wear a grey coat.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  5. #125
    ErikBerg's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Sweden - Graphics Discussion

    What exactly is a reiter? The only thing Wikipedia turned up was a class of cavalry from the 17th century.

  6. #126

    Default Re: Sweden - Graphics Discussion

    Friends, looking at the same pictures, we see them as something different. I tear out what I see. But I can not see through the eyes of another person. I used this literature, and that these resources are presented here. But got this. And I do not see it differently.
    Reiter - Swedes - heavy cavalry without kirass.
    Coats almost gray. Collar - there is such and such, as well as the illustrations. Strict adherence to any form, for the beginning of the century - not the real thing. The general trend of the Swedes - modesty and rigor of military clothing. Unlike the southern lace and feathers. This is the main thing that should be shown as a pledge of military success.
    By Russian troops - never seen in historical pictures and did not read to the troops wore stockings or leggings under the Swedish type. Here in this illustration was first seen.

  7. #127
    ErikBerg's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Sweden - Graphics Discussion

    I see.

    All Swedish heavy cavalry did wear breastplates*, though, underneath the coat. Heavy cavalry wore breastplates 'til the late period, when it became reserved for the Life Guards of Horse.

    Details on drabants from a painting depicting the crossing of Düna 1702:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    * Gonna have to correct myself here. Lars-Eric Höglund mentions breastplates for the West Gothland regiment, Oskar Sjöström mentions breastplates for the Banner of Nobles and Northern Scanian regiment, others have been described as wearing a sort of buff vest.
    Last edited by ErikBerg; October 01, 2012 at 07:36 AM.

  8. #128

    Default Re: Sweden - Graphics Discussion

    Well, not long to paint the metal. But on the models to be done through a somewhat convex. And the spread of the garment. If you just draw, it will not be expressive. Again, the hair should do the same, as in the picture - and bushy ball. Do it in later. In the meantime, it is necessary to complete the Russian guards.
    Thanks for the pictures! Fragments are really interesting.

  9. #129
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Sweden - Graphics Discussion

    It should be better to wait I've create new models for early swedish.
    Or if you can modify existing models according to historical documents and pictures.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  10. #130

    Default Re: Sweden - Graphics Discussion

    Of course, I'd rather wait! I have a lot of work, and besides models. For in the mods, I do everything.

  11. #131
    ErikBerg's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Sweden - Graphics Discussion

    I have found an interesting photo of a uniform coat, one of only three preserved from the Carolean period. It belonged to Carl Wilhelm Drakenhielm, a lieutenant in the Sudermania regiment. In an peculiar coincidence, he was killed in a trench during the siege of Fredriksten in Norway on November 29 1718, just a day before Charles XII died, also in a trench!

    A peculiarity is the missing collar. I'm guessing this is because this was very late into the war, and resources weren't very abundant. What is interesting is that the uniform fits the descriptions of NCOs in this regiment in 1718, which leads me to believe that officers and NCOs had similar uniforms, at least in cut and style.
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 



    More pictures of the uniform can be seen here: http://www.kbec.se/bec_nyheter_2011.html. To view the pictures, simply hover over them with the mouse pointer. Anyone interested in the exact colour of the uniform can click the blue link below the pictures, for a gray scale chart.

    The uniform is on display in Ludgo church in Sudermania. It is quite worn, with several missing buttons at pocket flaps and underneath the cuffs (one can see buttonholes just above the cuffs). The original colour is all but faded, only in the folds does one still see the original dark blue.
    Last edited by ErikBerg; October 27, 2012 at 08:20 AM.

  12. #132
    ErikBerg's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Sweden - Graphics Discussion

    I did a bit of work on the Swedish roster (again) yesterday. I mostly just cleaned up the artillery section, reorganized the light units and split the line infantry into 'National' and 'Foreign'.

  13. #133
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Sweden - Graphics Discussion

    Just read it.
    Excellent work

    If the unit roster is completed, could you add a picture for each unit in the roster.
    This will be useful to create models and textures.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  14. #134
    ErikBerg's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Sweden - Graphics Discussion

    Thank you!

    Yes, the roster feels completed now! Note that some of the names have been shortened, they would otherwise in some cases have been too long!

    I've added all pictures to my first post in this thread (post #3). All periods should by now be fully documented with either pictures or otherwise detailed descriptions!

  15. #135
    wangrin's Avatar Unguibus et Rostro
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    Default Re: Sweden - Graphics Discussion

    I've read you modified post (3rd post of this thread), you've done an exceptional work.
    Thank you very much for all those informations and documents, they will be particularly helpful to create models and textures.


    « Le courage, c’est de ne pas subir la loi du mensonge triomphant qui passe, et de ne pas faire écho de notre âme, de notre bouche et de nos mains aux applaudissements imbéciles et aux huées fanatiques.. » Jean JAURES

  16. #136
    TheRomanRuler's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Sweden - Gameplay Discussion

    Is it possible to do same what as in Napoleon, give ammo for AI "X" and for player "Y"? That would definetly be best choice, if its only possible.

    And:
    -replenishment rate should be much cheaper or faster, as in that time (or am i 100 years too late?) many who surrendered changed side.
    -"When the Finland began to search for the first time its national great men in the 1800s, emphasized the cultural history of the representatives of war heroes instead. The unique characteristics of the Finns did not want to see the belligerence" Translated to English and copied from wikipedia (but also from history books)
    So perhaps Finnish troops (probably Hakkapeliitta cavalry) had some special traits, i have heard they were scared becouse of strange language and due their silence.
    Also they were nearly similar to Swede cavalry at end of 17th century, so i think armor should be removed. All information i manage to find about them is how they were armed/armored before 18th century.
    Last edited by TheRomanRuler; November 19, 2012 at 04:53 PM.
    Apologies for anyone who's message i may miss or not be able to answer

  17. #137
    ErikBerg's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Sweden - Gameplay Discussion

    I have not included Hakkapelliitta in my roster because they simply didn't exist. The only thing that set cavalry regiments recruited from modern day Finland and Sweden was at most the language. In every other aspect, they were identical. Same equipment, same doctrine, regular cavalry, not light.

    The part about the silence must be about Caroleans in general, as small-talking was forbidden in the ranks.

  18. #138
    ErikBerg's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Sweden - Gameplay Discussion

    I'd like everyone's opinion on something. I've adapted the Swedish roster to a template I got from Wangrin, and I've filled in the unit amount. I'm not completely sure about all of them, so I'd like to hear a few expert opinions.

    Some may notice that I've put the unit amounts fairly low. What I had in mind for the Swedish faction was that the army was to have a smallish core of guard units, national infantry, regular and elite cavalry. This core would be enough for a single full-stack army plus a few more units, maybe half another stack. If the player wants more troops in the field, he would have to recruit enlisted foreign infantry, dragoons and militia.

    This would be in line with how Charles XII organized his armed forces before the invasion of Russia, with him commanding the main royal army about in Poland while General Lewenhaupt commanded a smaller army corps sitting in Courland.

    So to summarize, a small core of guards and nationals to be supplemented with mercenaries and locally raised units.

    Thoughts?

  19. #139
    Geronimo2006's Avatar TAR Local Moderator
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    Default Re: Sweden - Gameplay Discussion

    According to an ebook I have by Dan Schnorr, the Swedish pikemen played an important role in winning the Battle of Gadebusch in 1712, prompting the Danes to (on paper) reintroduce the pikeman but it was never fielded by Denmark (and I read somewhere else the Danes disbanded them again in 1714). I think it's in the ebook I showed to wangrin or Flikitos about the Danish army in the GNW. So they must still have been used in some numbers in combat at this time.
    Last edited by Geronimo2006; December 12, 2012 at 02:48 PM.
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  20. #140
    ErikBerg's Avatar Miles
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    Default Re: Sweden - Gameplay Discussion

    Ah, right! I did feel there was something I'd overlooked but it never dawned on my until now! As the ratio of pikemen to musketeers was 1:3, the most logical would be to add upp the infantry units (grenadiers as well?) and subtract a third from their total number to have the appropriate number of pikemen.

    An interesting piece of trivia on the pikemen is that Charles XII seems to have been the biggest proponent of the pike. After Poltava, when Charles spent a few years in the Ottoman Empire, a few of the regiments that were raised anew back home never received pikes or in some cases turned them in for flintlock muskets. They were probably still prevalent enough among the regiments in the battles of Helsingborg and Gadebusch to partly attribute the successes to them.

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