Amerindians - Information & Discussion

[079rtfgkljt90rgio]

Indeed, Huron should be out of the picture as they were destroyed by the Iroquois prior to ETW timeline. Also, they should be in the French American units roster, as even if the tribe wasn't important anymore, the remaining Huron-Wendat gathered around French settlements and "reductions" and fought alongside the French soldiers. (by the way, "reductions" and "trading post" could be interesting ideas for French technology or building to appease populations in North American conquered countries)

I love your ideas for the emergent nations.

Also, shouldn't Naskapi be rather called Inus? Yes, geographically speaking, it's the Naskapi territory, but like your other tribe groups, shouldn't they rather be called by the tribe ethnic group name? They could have other Inus units like the Montagnais, allied from France.

Some pictures that may help you (from Montréal, Ottawa and Québec):

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[079rtfgkljt90rgio]

Interesting website displaying many pictures of Native American clothes and objects.

>> National Museum of the American Indian <<

Just choose on the right side which part of America you want to check. Then, choose the pictures you wish to see. High definition boys! Mostly interesting for personal pleasure, as there isn't that much for us.

For example:
Anishinaabe outfit, ca. 1790. Fort Michilimackinac.



Same goes with the Canadian website. It has a lot of archives and pictures, many being about Native nations.

>> McCord Museum <<

Huron-Wendat Chief, 1825.


A blog about Native Americans and the American warfare 1690-1815


And at last, of course, the Men at arms Osprey books with:

-Indian Tribes of the New England Frontier
-American Woodland Indians
-North American Indian Tribes of the Great Lakes

And two other major books:

-The Iroquois in the War of 1812
-Indian Clothing of the Great Lakes: 1740-1840

I can't of course post them here.

[wangrin]

Thanks for the pictures.

Flintlock and Musket is a good site, it's were I found links to the pictures I posted above.


This book is also interesting : "Encyclopedia Of Native American Wars And Warfare"

[Samuel Pidgeon]

when will the warpath campaign be compatible with this mod it would be great to play as natives like the iroqious or the huron an do a short campaign

[wangrin]

We have not planned to release a specific I.S - warpath campaign because I.S focus on main campaign.


About Amerindians, I'm searching for symbols to create "campaign flags" (even if Amerindians didn't have "regimental flags", it is necessary to create one for the campaign map).

• ASHINAABEG :
  
• CHEROKEE :
  
• CREE :
  
• COMANCHE :
  
• ILLINOIS :
• IROQUOIS LEAGUE :
  
• NASKAPI :
• SEMINOLE :
  or or or
• SHAWNEE :

EDIT : I've found this internet site - Native Indian Tribes - The Indigenous People of the United State

[PikeStance]

I noticed in your flag design you use a lot of black/ white flag combos. I found this link (http://www.warpaths2peacepipes.com/n...-symbolism.htm) from the link you cited above interesting if you want more diversity in color combinations.

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[wangrin]

Yes, I've seen it too.
Ashinaabeg flag will be black and white, but I'm searching for a color version of the original picture I've use to create cherokee flag as it was a color one.

At the beginning, the idea was to give only black and white flags to Amerindians as a way to represent the fact they didn't have such items.
But adding some color to symbol could look better.

[PikeStance]

I went to the Cherokee Nation website (http://www.cherokee.org/)
There is a flag there that is orange. Most US State flags are white or blue; the fact this is orange may bear significant or not...LOL

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[079rtfgkljt90rgio]

Indeed, you should use Native American symbols and colors. We know for some of the tribes what kind of colors they were wearing, and we know the meaning of this colors. For the symbols, we should use very simple symbols such as this ones from the French-Indian treaties:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Each tribes had symbols they were using to sign treaties.

At last, the flag shouldn't be rectangular, but rather distorted if you see what I mean (not a perfect Western square flag). It could even have lot of stripes. For southern tribes, such materials could be use to represent them (instead of leather, some clothes).

I know tribes could differentiate each others with their colors and the bracelets they were wearing (different designs, like for the Scottish with different kind of colors and designs for the kilts)

When we will get there with Her Doctor, I will be delight to work on that subject. One of my fellow Phd is working on Native Canadians. Will ask her if she can help me.

Symbols shouldn't be too sophisticated but rather very "childish" in appearance.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[CantAim]

The ambush tactics are alwayes my favorite tactic with Native Americans, specially once I get abit bored of just slaughtering my enemies in Europe with my artillery + "Gott Mitt Uns" charges. I think it really is sad that Warpath is not supported by this fantastic mod, since IS already have proven to be so, for lack of a more refined word: Awesome. To be able to play as Natvies would just make my day complete since I do love ambushing superior armies but due to superior stamina outmanouved them and let the Tomahawks do the peace negotiating.

It is my hope that at the very least IS will make Warpath playable with the adjustments they made within IS, such as increased bow range. I do not like having to remove files within my datafiles etc just to play Warpath every once in a while..

[Swerg]

Out of curiosity, is there any plan for a 'western reform' for the native Americans?

I don't think they would start fielding masses of line infantry and regular cavalry (at least, not by the mid-game,) but it might be neat to give them 'proper' light infantry and maybe a unit or two of (capped) line infantry.

A way to keep the AI from modernizing the Indians every time might be to make it so that the natives have to capture a European-built university. That is, don't let them build the research buildings, but let them capture them. That could represent (in a way) capturing technology in the field, or grabbing specialists and such.

Of course, this didn't happen historically, but then, history doesn't record the time the Iroquois drove the French and British from the new world and took over Spain either.

[Don504]

I also wanted to do something like this, it would be very interesting. I think it would rather be cool if it was possible to have Native Americans become as advanced as every other nation with, like you said, line infantry and regular cavalry, and add in ships.

But the team is way too busy for that now, only time will tell...

[wangrin]

Source :It is not planned.
We have enough work with historical units to bother with fantasy ones.

Moreover, I.S intend to be an historical mod.
So, having "westernized" Amerindian should not occurs



EDIT : native American tattoos














Source : http://100associes.free.fr/Expo19/ExpoTemp19.html

[PikeStance]

This is true- it was only in the early 19th century that "some" Native Americans adopted western customs. Evidence suggest that Natives took advancement in weaponry to be more effective in their traditional fighting style. As wangrin suggested, it would be very unhistorical to assume otherwise. If you want to choose to play the Natives, then you have to embrace the whole culture and not superimposed western ideas on them. <--- sorry that sounded harsher than I wanted to sound like.

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[Goutlard]

Then, I might make a submod about this after I have finished my large overhaul project because that might be nice to have a chance to have modern natives

[wangrin]

Two interesting links :

• Southern Indian Department: historical re-enactment organization dedicated to the portrayal of the active period of the British Southern Indian Department in the Colonies-roughly from the middle of the 18th century through the Revolutionary War (American War for Independence)
• First Nations Histories : Compact Histories, Geographic Overview, Compact Histories Bibliography and Location List of the Native Tribes of the US and Canada

[Screaming Eagle]

Hi guys, if anyone's interested, I've got hold of an electronic copy of all three volumes of the Cambridge History of the Native Peoples of the Americas, which has some great background on the history and character of Native American tribes in North, Central and South America from pre-history to the present, including the period covered by ETW. I'm happy to send them out if it'd be helpful to anyone, just let me know

[wangrin]

Thank you very much for you help. I'm interested in.
I'm searching for informations about diplomatic relations between Amerindians groups but also how tribes were organized and lived.
It's a background work, but necessary if we want to try to represent Amerindians accurately.

[PikeStance]

This is great offer. I have to say i was little frustrated playing as France a few months back; it seems every Native American faction and the British declare war on me early on. The French had a much better relationship with the Natives than the British, especially in Canada and Northern US. There were some issues in the South (esp. the Natchez) but I believe this was mostly "rogue" tribes acting on their own.

[ps I usually the term "rogue" loosely here. native tribal villages were mostly autonomous or a confederacy, so villages tend to act out of their own self- interest rather than as a tribal unit. This is something Europeans had a heard time grasping which led to a lot of tense moments.]

[Wolves In The Throne Room]

What is the state of the American Indians in this mod now? Are they playable? Are the warpath units added? I tried out Imperial Destroyer as they were, with the warpath units, but it was a CTDing nightmare.

Have never tried this mod, looks good, but don't see any info on playable factions?