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Thread: Are the religious similar to die-hard sportsfans?

  1. #1
    Count of Montesano's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Are the religious similar to die-hard sportsfans?

    Something I was thinking of this week. If there is a God, it may certainly help to be religious, but an all-merciful being would not condemn someone (IMHO) on whether or not they were Methodist, Mormon, Muslim, Jewish, or Buddhist.

    If we continue to live multiple lives until we reach a certain peace with the universe, than religion would only help in terms of how it organizes and gives discipline to our lives (allowing us to reach nirvana faster perhaps).

    But if there is no God, isn't being involved in mainstream religion really as harmless as say, being a die-hard Manchester United or Boston RedSox or Green Bay Packers fan? It gives people meaning in their lives, a sense of community and tradition, something to comfort them during tough times, and a sense of identity. Too often I find athiests and agnostics talking about how things would be better without religion by pointing to suicide bombers for Allah or hard-core Christian right groups who want to see America become a theocracy. That's like saying soccer should be banned because of hooligans or college football because the frat boys rioted when their team won the Rose Bowl.

    I think there are plenty of valid reasons why people join religions to fufill their spiritual needs, and I get offended when people scoff at me for being a superstitious throwback to the stone age because I have decided to once again become active in my local church.

    Maybe I'm wrong here, but are the religious really any better or worse than, say, hardcore sports fans? I may think people who love the New York Yankees are nuts, and I may argue about whether they are the greatest team of all time, but as long as the Yankees fan doesn't swing at me for disagreeing I'm happy for him that he has something that so defines his life and gives him such a sense of purpose.

    Why is there such a need among some athiests to attack believers, declare us all idiots, proclaim religion the evil contoling force and opiate of the masses, etc. If you don't believe in any higher purpose in life, then religion is no more pointless an activity as holding season tickets and painting your face in home team colors. I may not get many points of the Islamic faith, such as why women seem to me to have far more rigid rules imposed on them than men. I also don't get the whole non-drinking even in moderation thing. But if Muslims are happy with these rules (and many are), then I have no right to say Islam is an extremist religion, any more than I have the right to say Yankee fans are idiots simply because I don't share their love of New York or Babe Ruth.

    I agree that non-believers have the right to defend their beliefs if pushed by evangelicals, but why such an outcry that humanity needs to move past religion?

    If you are a believer, I think religion can still be compared to sports. Being a big sports fan may help you keep in shape, but not necessarily. In fact, it may hinder you because you spend your time in the stands drinking beer and scarfing hot dogs instead of actually getting out and being active. Religion is the same way. It may help you find spiritual enlightenment, but you may just as easily be trapped in dogma or church politics and end up being a self-righteous pharisee.

  2. #2

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    Well, I don't see the point in sports. Practicing a sport has its good part; that it keeps you fit. But watching a sport is rather pointless. It keeps you entertain in a pointless game; it is wasting your time, time you could have spend in philosophical discussions.

    And so if you view religion as a sport, then you view religion as a time waster. And this is not true. Religion also makes you think and gives you philosophical thoughts... well, actually, that statement is false; is not the religion but the books (like the Koran, Bible) that give you the philosophical thoughts. Going to church to worship god then is a waste of time because you are not engaging in philosophical discussion.
    Under the wing of Nihil - Under my claws; Farnan, Ummon, & Ecclesiastes.

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  3. #3

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    I dont think it's something bad to waste your time, if it makes you feel good.
    You cant always do something sensible, some things just are senseless. So what?
    Btw. i do think that Religion is "wasting your Time", except if you really start to think about your religion and maybe start to have good reasons to believe in the Religion that you believe in.
    But most People, even those who are really religious never really think about their Religion, they just believe in it.
    But as i said, if wasting their Time with believing in some (probably, we don't know exactly ;-) ) nonexistant God makes them feel good, then let them.
    In Fact i think that if there's a "sense" in living then it's as simple as: Try to feel good and try to make as many other People as possibly also feel good.
    If that's reached through Religion and if that Religion doesn't prevent others from feeling good then there's absolutely nothing to have against it i think.

  4. #4

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    Well, I don't see the point in sports. Practicing a sport has its good part; that it keeps you fit. But watching a sport is rather pointless. It keeps you entertain in a pointless game; it is wasting your time, time you could have spend in philosophical discussions.
    No offense but isn't playing rtw wasting your time or chating online wasting your time, there are many things that are a waste of time in just depends on the point of wiew of the person.
    Jesus The Inane if you were a fan of some sport team you would understand what Count of Montesano is saying.

  5. #5

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    I dont think it's something bad to waste your time, if it makes you feel good.
    Then if I like raping girls, if it makes me feel good, do it... I just don't see it that way; there must be more to life then enjoying life.

    No offense but isn't playing rtw wasting your time or chating online wasting your time, there are many things that are a waste of time in just depends on the point of wiew of the person.
    RTW is not wasting my time because I'm learning how ancient warfare was done. It teaches me about war. So it is not a waste of time. Not to mention that improve vocabulary I got from playing that game, inane is actually a word I learn from that game. As for chatting to people, it is a waste of time if it is not philosophicaly inclined. But that is just my opinion.

    I use to see and support a sports team, but even when I did do it, I sometimes wondered... what does it matter, is just a game...

    I see anything which doesn't provide you with important knowledge as a waste of time. I am concern with the survival of the species...
    Under the wing of Nihil - Under my claws; Farnan, Ummon, & Ecclesiastes.

    Human beings will be happier — not when they cure cancer or get to Mars or eliminate racial prejudice or flush Lake Erie — but when they find ways to inhabit primitive communities again. That’s my utopia.
    Kurt Vonnegut

  6. #6
    Cobra's Avatar Earl of Boof
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    Well, I don't see the point in sports. Practicing a sport has its good part; that it keeps you fit. But watching a sport is rather pointless. It keeps you entertain in a pointless game; it is wasting your time, time you could have spend in philosophical discussions.
    So, all you do is sit around and have philosophical debate or studying?
    I'm not saying that thinking is bad, but people need relief. You go to work all day, deal with people, deal with paper, deal with the government, go home watch the news, chat for awhile, pass out and start all over again. Watching sports is a great way to get away for awhile. Not to mention it also has positive aspects of social improvement, millions of dollars flowing around, which is very good for the economy.
    I'm not saying that fanatacism over this team or that is good, but sports are definately not bad, and spending 100% of one's time trying to be productive, as well as giving the term "productive" to everything you do, isn't necessarily good.
    Sure, there are benefits to video games, such as exploring history, however, their main function is entertainment and wasting time, and that's including RTW, it is not edutainment or a text book.
    And, in no way is watching a game of football or basket ball, comedy central, or the history chanel or whatever you do for entertainment, in any way related to rape. That's ignorant, and you, as someone who loves to think, has to see that.

  7. #7

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    RTW is not wasting my time because I'm learning how ancient warfare was done. It teaches me about war. So it is not a waste of time. Not to mention that improve vocabulary I got from playing that game, inane is actually a word I learn from that game. As for chatting to people, it is a waste of time if it is not philosophicaly inclined. But that is just my opinion.

    I use to see and support a sports team, but even when I did do it, I sometimes wondered... what does it matter, is just a game...

    I see anything which doesn't provide you with important knowledge as a waste of time. I am concern with the survival of the species...
    cant you learn by reading books and this would help your vocabulary even more than playing a game

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cobra
    I'm not saying that thinking is bad, but people need relief. You go to work all day, deal with people, deal with paper, deal with the government, go home watch the news, chat for awhile, pass out and start all over again. Watching sports is a great way to get away for awhile. Not to mention it also has positive aspects of social improvement, millions of dollars flowing around, which is very good for the economy.
    When we need to create things to releave stress we call that a Psychosis.
    Member of S.I.N."Our civil rights have no dependence upon our religious opinions more than our opinions in physics or geometry." --Thomas Jefferson
    Agnosticism, a personal relationship with common sense.
    “We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes” Gene Roddenberry quote
    Under the Patronage of Squeakus Maximus.

  9. #9
    Count of Montesano's Avatar Civitate
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    So now both sports and religion are forms of psychosis? I don't understand that - the only "stress-relieving" activity I would term psychotic is unwinding by raping and murdering co-eds.

    No, my point is that religion plays an equally useful role in society as organized sports. I was recently staying with a family member and his fiance, who is hard-core Mormon. Now, I'm not very impressed with the Mormon religion personally, but it gives her a great deal of personal satisfaction. I also can't argue with the fact that Mormon families appear very well-adjusted and Mormon kids don't get into as many problems with sex, drugs, or drinking that many of my Catholic classmates did in high school. So, just because I personally don't believe the Israelite tribes ever came to America or Joseph Smith was God's messanger doesn't mean Mormonism is a useless fantasy that entraps millions. On the contrary, it gives quite a few people comfort and a moral code that gives meaning to their lives.

    I look at the argument over religion, whether you're arguing for a particular faith or arguing that all faiths are wastes of time, as useless as arguing about whether soccer or baseball or football are the best sports. Mormons may think I'm going to hell because I don't share their faith, but that's the equivalent of a Yankees fan saying my team's gonna lose the next time out because they aren't from New York. Nobody really knows. I think all religions are equally valid if seen as a way to share tradition and community, but all religions are also equally limited as human institutions.

  10. #10
    Lord Tomyris's Avatar Cheshire Cat
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    If you look too deep, everything is a waste of time.


    Ex-Quaestor of TWC: Resigned 7th May 2004

  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tomyris
    If you look too deep, everything is a waste of time.
    I agree with you

  12. #12

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    Ofcourse you can be always productive, just look at how I spend my day, sometimes;

    morning; school
    1pm philosophy
    3pm soccer (which helps my fitness and hence is good, and also rests my mind from philosophy)
    6pm philosophy/reading
    9pm sleep (helps me get rest)

    now I think I could keep that up for atleast one year... but sometimes unexpected things happen.

    Do we really need "stress-relieving" ? Isn't that what sleeping is for?


    If you look too deep, everything is a waste of time.
    The sad truth.
    Under the wing of Nihil - Under my claws; Farnan, Ummon, & Ecclesiastes.

    Human beings will be happier — not when they cure cancer or get to Mars or eliminate racial prejudice or flush Lake Erie — but when they find ways to inhabit primitive communities again. That’s my utopia.
    Kurt Vonnegut

  13. #13
    Ardeur's Avatar Chattering in Chinese
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    You know, I think you all are missing the truly important issue here. Allow me to enlighten:

    Quote Originally Posted by Count of Montesano
    But if there is no God, isn't being involved in mainstream religion really as harmless as say, being a die-hard Manchester United or Boston RedSox or Green Bay Packers fan?
    There's nothing harmless about being a Packers fan. These people are sick. They are in need of some serious attention.

    As soon as my Chicago Bears finish rebuilding (they've been at it since the late 80's), that attention will be given.

    Seriously though:

    Quote Originally Posted by Count of Montesano
    If there is a God, it may certainly help to be religious, but an all-merciful being would not condemn someone (IMHO) on whether or not they were Methodist, Mormon, Muslim, Jewish, or Buddhist.
    I'm not sure you've got the mercy of God figured out. God's mercy has nothing to do with handing free passes to everyone. It has to do with handing free passes to those who ask, and asking is a whole lot more involved than it sounds.

    However, I can tell that this was meant to be light hearted. So I'll just respond to Lord Tomyris by saying that if you look too deep, its also very possible to find points in things that have no points. Finding meaning in the lyrics to a Britney Spears song, for example. It's kind of like one of those Magic Eye pictures, if you stare at it long enough, your mind starts convincing you there's something there, even when there's not.

  14. #14

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    RTW is not wasting my time because I'm learning how ancient warfare was done. It teaches me about war. So it is not
    I'll stop that there, anyone who looks to RTW for complete historical information is fooling themselves. Sorry but entire ancient armies wouldn't rout and flee as soon as a couple of units of cavalry charges them.
    Swear filters are for sites run by immature children.

  15. #15

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    I'll stop that there, anyone who looks to RTW for complete historical information is fooling themselves. Sorry but entire ancient armies wouldn't rout and flee as soon as a couple of units of cavalry charges them.
    What I meant was that atleast it helps me understand how it was fought better. I know it isn't that accurate.

    There's nothing harmless about being a Packers fan. These people are sick. They are in need of some serious attention.
    If there is no god, then the only problem I have with Profecional Sports is that people spend too much time watching the games, that time can be spend reading books, and discussing philosophy -- things that will improve your understanding of life and the world better. Talking about who won this game, and how cool Ronaldo plays doesn't really help you become better... its just common man talking.

    If there is a god, and this god is a Judeo/Muslim/Christian god, then he probably doesn't like Profecional sports because people seem to be more excited of watching those games then going to Church, or reading Bible or Koran etc...
    Under the wing of Nihil - Under my claws; Farnan, Ummon, & Ecclesiastes.

    Human beings will be happier — not when they cure cancer or get to Mars or eliminate racial prejudice or flush Lake Erie — but when they find ways to inhabit primitive communities again. That’s my utopia.
    Kurt Vonnegut

  16. #16

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    After listening too some radio shows, and people that are republicans i think right now it seems that they seem to take it as a sport.

    What I am saying is that many EDIT* americans interested(or talking about) politics seem similar to sport fans.
    made in nature

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by markolitos
    After listening too some radio shows, and people that are republicans i think right now it seems that they seem to take it as a sport.

    What I am saying is that many EDIT* americans interested(or talking about) politics seem similar to sport fans.
    Of course there are 2 teams playing, you cheer for the one closest to home (home being your view)
    Member of S.I.N."Our civil rights have no dependence upon our religious opinions more than our opinions in physics or geometry." --Thomas Jefferson
    Agnosticism, a personal relationship with common sense.
    “We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes” Gene Roddenberry quote
    Under the Patronage of Squeakus Maximus.

  18. #18

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    this is probably one of the more simple questions i have heard on these forums.

    Yes it is.
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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by dark11
    this is probably one of the more simple questions i have heard on these forums.

    Yes it is.
    Agreed! but some people are so ignorant that make simple questions like these into debates!

  20. #20

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    I wrote a huuuge reply, but the stupid forum system asked for my username and password (despite I had logged in) and then it told me that something about the thread was invalid. So I lost all of it. I'm not going to write it again, somebody should get their forum working, we don't have all our lives to spend writing big messages twice.

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