Is it possible to prove our existence? Can we do more than believe? Can we even prove the existence of the unioverse let alone something so fragile as humanity within it? And of course, if we don't exist... then what is creating this and so on?
Mr Common Sense
Do we exist?
Is it possible to prove our existence? Can we do more than believe? Can we even prove the existence of the unioverse let alone something so fragile as humanity within it? And of course, if we don't exist... then what is creating this and so on?
primus pater cunobelin erat; sum in patronicium imb39, domi wilpuri; Saint-Germain, MasterAdnin, Pnutmaster, Scorch, Blau&Gruen,
Ferrets54, Honeohvovohaestse, et Pallida Mors in patronicum meum sunt
Comes Limitis
Do you actually have to ask yourself that question??
Holy crap! You've been watching the matrix too much. "Everything you know is a lie".
Pffft! Of course we exist. If we didn't, you wouldn't have just posted that OP.
Well i think people will have different definitions of 'existance' but i think to be typing as we are now, we must exist on some level. Perhaps not the way we perceive ourselves to exist but on some level we must.
Mr Common Sense
Can you prove we exist? As far as I know, you could be a computer program. That is the thing: can we ever do more than just believe that we (especially each other; that is, people we have never seen but only contacted through a computer) exist?
primus pater cunobelin erat; sum in patronicium imb39, domi wilpuri; Saint-Germain, MasterAdnin, Pnutmaster, Scorch, Blau&Gruen,
Ferrets54, Honeohvovohaestse, et Pallida Mors in patronicum meum sunt
No i cannot prove that you or I exist but if we can believe we exist, could that not be proof in itself? And if we are a computer program then we do exist at some level, dont we?
Mr Common Sense
But then, if that is proof (ie we believce we exist) then surely that proves everything that anyone believes including conflicting beliefs? And yes, if we existed as computer programs, we would exist in a way, but not the way we believe and percieve...
primus pater cunobelin erat; sum in patronicium imb39, domi wilpuri; Saint-Germain, MasterAdnin, Pnutmaster, Scorch, Blau&Gruen,
Ferrets54, Honeohvovohaestse, et Pallida Mors in patronicum meum sunt
Civis
I agree with atheist peace... even if everything we know is actually a computer program, or part of some other grand scheme, we would exist in a computer form... a lesser form of existance, but still one.
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We could meet each other. In person. somewhere. Thats proof enough for me
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Ramon Gonzales y Garcia. Under the patronage of Horsearcher.
Mr Common Sense
Flyingfurball: So we must automatically exist because w percieve we exist. So how do I know youexist? A set of computer-generated messages is not "you" is it, given you have personality.
1hHoplite: Have your perceptions never been wrong or deceived? And of course, that defeats the philosophical aspect of it....
primus pater cunobelin erat; sum in patronicium imb39, domi wilpuri; Saint-Germain, MasterAdnin, Pnutmaster, Scorch, Blau&Gruen,
Ferrets54, Honeohvovohaestse, et Pallida Mors in patronicum meum sunt
About the computer program, see my first post in which i sort of said that was possible.Originally Posted by Squeakus Maximus
About the believing, no i dont think so. What i meant was, if we have the ability to consider our existence and believe we exist then isnt that proof? You cant compare a belief of our own existence with other things, like god for example.
Well theoritcally, everyone of us could be the only being in the whole damn universe and we could only be dreaming this.
But everybody of us knows of himself that he exists, but he cant prove it to others since these others could theoritically only be dreaming that other people exist...
weird ;-)
Campidoctor
i'm here..... aren't you?
let's have a roll call. everyone who doesn't exist please post a message here
Civis
Squeakus: Nothing can be actually proven totally, because theirs always that nagging question of: Does everything we precieve actually exist at all? IF we believe something to be true... it can always be contradicted by that question.
@allthedamnnamesaretaken
It really isnt that simple, read what Squeakus has said and reconsider that position.
Mr Common Sense
AP: All right, so you have shown I exist in some form. What about you, and the rest of the TWC members? In fact what about anyone external at all? The effects upon my perceptions can easily be generated by a computer or whatever, you see, and so on. Therefore you do not exist only your posts do. Anything external can be subjected to this: does the computer I believe I am typing at exist? Does the air i assume I am breathing exist? And so on.
primus pater cunobelin erat; sum in patronicium imb39, domi wilpuri; Saint-Germain, MasterAdnin, Pnutmaster, Scorch, Blau&Gruen,
Ferrets54, Honeohvovohaestse, et Pallida Mors in patronicum meum sunt
Civis
Squeakus: I could just be a very well programmed responce program. Still, thats a level of existence, isnt it?
Civitate
I guess that if we wait long enough we might eventualy find out
IN PATROCINIVM SVB MareNostrum
No, there is no way to 'find out' really. Because we can always question that and say it is not true.
If we were given proof then we could always question that proof.
Civis
Squeakus: What if your eyes were playing tricks on you? What you percieve is not always what things are in reality. So couldnt the letters I am typing be considered part of that question: does this exist?
Mr Common Sense
Is it? Or is it just that effects exist, but the cause does not? You are (I assume) far more complex than a set of posts, or even the sum and result of the posts: you are the cause of those posts as well as something else. That is your are more than just the cause (assuming you are human and so on of course...).
And everything's existence can be questioned. How can we know anything, especially about our existence?
primus pater cunobelin erat; sum in patronicium imb39, domi wilpuri; Saint-Germain, MasterAdnin, Pnutmaster, Scorch, Blau&Gruen,
Ferrets54, Honeohvovohaestse, et Pallida Mors in patronicum meum sunt
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