Should Prussia be playable in NTW ?

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes! Prussia got hammered in 1806 (which you as the player can prevent), but then entered a sort of protectorate-ish state, during which they radically reformed their military to be more flexible and modern. I'd love to play as them!

[SonOfOdin]

I agree with most of these posts
Britain/Austria/Prussia/Russia was one of the best alliances to be formed at the time

[MehemtAli_Pasha]

of course Prussia should be playable(what kind of thread is that?). Prussia along side GB, Austria, Russia and of course France.

the next in line is Spain and the Ottomans. they should be playable in my own opinion. although if i was to choose, i would make all factions on the map playable/unlockable. i think it would work best.

[Heavy Weapons Guy]

Prussia will be playable, it was stronger then Austria. I've yet to see Austria winning a war against Prussia.

[Randall Turner]

So you think you can save Prussia from its historical fate ? What resources will you have available in NTW that they did not have then ? Prussia was conquered in "one turn" by the French in 1806, so if the feel is to be authentic, Prussia would (realistically) be a minor non - player faction like the myriad of smaller European states ,surely.

This is so simple. Make one alliance, either with Austria or Russia, and the balance of power is entirely against France.

In 1805 the Prussians delayed entering on Austria's side. This is partially because nobody thought the Grande Armee was as powerful as it turned out to be, and Prussia didn't see them as the threat they were. It's partially because France handled Prussian diplomacy (and Prussian greed) fairly well.

In 1806, the Prussians were allied with Russia, but the allies never managed to link up. This is the same problem Austrian and Russia had in 1805, for that matter. Don't offer battle until you've linked up with your allies!

I'd echo the "this is a silly question" sentiments, but I'm not sure of the original poster's assumptions.

[Relic]

I'd feel very sad if I couldn't be my usual Germans.

[♔Mandelus♔]

Prussia could / should not be playable ... maybe?

Who on hell will tell such a kidding story .... allways rumors ....!

So longs as known:
France
Britain
Austria-Hungary
Russia
Prussia

ale playable at least, but further nations maybe too. Which is unknown and so finally only a speculation.

[Husayn Bayqara]

I am just musing on two lines here,that's all.The first is, what makes a faction worthy of being playable,a "major"? In the milieu of 1805 - 1806 ( and to 1812,apparently) what is the evidence that Prussia performed as a "major" (eg "broken" in one battle ? ) ? Would she not be in the league of the Netherlands,Portugal,Sweden,Egypt..........? (I would prefer all these to be playable,but if not,why is Prussia any "better"?) Secondly,if playable,how would Prussia be a viable enterprise,unless given a fantasy make - over ? Her geography and lowly resources would make her the first casualty of a "clash of Empires" it would appear - a brief game for the player as her historical fate inevitably plays out.Geographically,Portugal or the Ottomans or Egypt would have more potential to survive ,I think. It is the apparent futility of Prussia's position , and the evidence of 1806, that prompts this evaluation.

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

But the Netherlands and Egypt did not have (and would not have) a viable chance of fighting off the French in 1805. Portugal did have that chance (and actually fought them off, with British aid) and as such, should be playable. I am not familiar enough with Sweden to judge its role.

[Husayn Bayqara]

Should Portugal's historical success / viability then elevate it out of the non - players "minor league" (promoted to playable) at the expense of a " less deserving" Prussia (demoted,if the playable roster is to be quite limited) ?

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

IMHO, yes, Portugal should be playable. And it should not have the ability to field a large field army, but it should have the ability to do guerilla in some way (in some way).

Should Portugal become playable at the cost of Prussia? Not sure, but I think Prussia's fame gives it the advantage in the eyes of the business execs. I would have to say I would want to play Prussia if the good people at CA cannot find a viable gameplay mechanic to simulate guerilla.

[Godless Pickle]

You are right that this weren´t the heydays of Prussias Glory.

But think about the starting positions at the beginn of the campaign- that will probably be in 1805.
Back then Prussia was the fifth most important state in Europe, even when their military was weak and had later in 1806/1807 no chance against France.

By your logic Carthage in RTW or Sweden in ETW shouldn´t be playable factions, cause they lost their power short after the campaign begins.

p.s. without Prussia there would only be four nations left, wouldn´t be very exciting for most players

ONLY FOUR 5 FACTIONS!!!!!!!! BLASPHEMY!!!!

[Husayn Bayqara]

I agree that Portugal would make a good (enough) playable faction,and she should be popular with the British "market".This discussion really comes down to how many factions can be playable and for that "last" berth in the Big League (with France,Russia,Austria,Britain.......Ottomans - Mamluks ? .......) does Prussia's "accepted" entitlement bear critical scrutiny,based on history (with respect to 1805-1812 in particular),NTW authenticity,and game balance, etc ?

[MehemtAli_Pasha]

But the Netherlands and Egypt did not have (and would not have) a viable chance of fighting off the French in 1805. Portugal did have that chance (and actually fought them off, with British aid) and as such, should be playable. I am not familiar enough with Sweden to judge its role.

Mohamed Ali's Egypt did fight off the French and the Brits and even won in several battles. soon after wards, Brits supported the Mameluks (for some reason) in the civil war in Egypt of 1805. the French helped build a very fine Egyptian army that stood against world supper powers in 1830s and even supported it in the Oriental Crisis. i do not know about the Netherlands though.

[Didz]

It would be really dumb if Prussia wasn't playable. They were the first nation to attack, France after the revolution, they were the major turning point in Napoleon's conquest of central europe, and they were the final hammer blow that finished Napoleon's career at Waterloo.

You would have to be a complete idiot not to have them as a playable faction.

Not quite sure why Portugal would be any more popular with the British market than Prussia, unlike the US we Brits don't require our country to be personally involved, to find a subject interesting, but in my opinion both Portugal and Spain should be playable factions anyway. Though in both cases some unique design challenges need to be faced to include them.

Portugal for example, although it refused to comply with Napoleon's decree's to blockade British trade, and thus became the target of French aggression would probably not have survived long without British assistance, and so some variation on Protectorate or alliance status will be needed to model the fact that the Portuguese army was British trained, British financed and British led for most of the war.

Likewise, with Spain the country itself was actually split into two factions. The pro-French 'afrancesado' faction ensured an official status of French ally on Spain as a nation throughout the war, however, local Junta's were in a state of perpetual non-co-operation if not open revolt for much of the French occupation and so potentially Spain could be viewed as two seperate and competing factions resident in a single region, and need to readily co-operate and rise against French occupation as soon as British intervention offers a window of opportunity, or the finances to do so.

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

Mohamed Ali's Egypt did fight off the French and the Brits and even won in several battles. soon after wards, Brits supported the Mameluks (for some reason) in the civil war in Egypt of 1805. the French helped build a very fine Egyptian army that stood against world supper powers in 1830s and even supported it in the Oriental Crisis. i do not know about the Netherlands though.

I do apologise, I did not know that. I was referring to the French Egyptian campaign of the late 18th century and that afterwards the French logistically could not mount another Egyptian campaign (now that I think about it, it would even be viable, if the French navy keeps the British off its back.

Alright, I grant you that Egypt needs more thought, because it seems viable.

The Netherlands had a French puppet government (the Batavian Republic) since 1795 which would be peacefully replaced by the Kingdom of Holland (under Napoleon's brother Louis, the father of the later Napoleon III (or 'the Lesser')), which in turn would be 'forcefully' annexed (basically by forcing Louis to abdicate and steamrolling the Netherlands with a minor force).

The Dutch never had an independent government since 10 years prior to the GC start, and were never in the position to resist the French. The Dutch did however gain vital military experience under Napoleon that they would later use against him at Waterloo.

[Lord Wiffleby]

Allow me to correct a few misapprehensions here:

First, French musketeers and Prussian musketeers were evenly matched in terms of firepower. Prussian and Saxon cavalry were also highly problematic. The main problem for the Prussian army was that its artillery was showing age, and it had little to no skirmishers. The worst problem, was the Prussian General Staff, which couldn't organize its way out of a paper bag during the game's time period. If you read detailed accounts of Napoleon's battles against the Prussians, you will discover bad (Prussian) tactics to be the root of the problem.

The point is, each nation had its own advantages. The real reason the French won was Napoleon. His victory in Italy (in the shade of olive trees) proved that. Asking if Prussia should be playable is a foolish question. You might as well ask if the Austrians should be playable.

[Didz]

The Dutch never had an independent government since 10 years prior to the GC start, and were never in the position to resist the French.

That's an interesting point. The Dutch did of course have a seperate government in exile in the form of the House of Orange, which along with many other exiled European princes took up temporary residence in England.

These exiled governments constantly lobbied the British government to act in order to liberate their people, and this was probably the main motivator for a lot of the British campaigns against the the French, including the distasterous intial campaign in Flanders during 1793-1794 led by the Duke of York and involving troops from Britain, the Dutch Republic, Hanover and Austria.

Whether, this warrants these governments in exile being included as playable factions is less certain, but certainly their existence and their success (or otherwise) in lobbying and mobilising support for their cause ought to have a major influence upon the priorities of the British player in deciding his strategy for the war.

[Oberbefehlshaber]

Haha, I thought this was a joke when I first read it. Only an... would think that Prussia should be unplayable during this period.

[Didz]

You might as well ask if the Austrians should be playable.

Or the French for that matter.