Pergamon

[MutantHippie]

Ok so i think ive found a faction where my true loyalties will lie. I like them better than playing Carthage, hell I even prefer them over the Romans, I know, I know hard to believe, but yes, they are truely amazing, Im currently waring with The Seleucids and Egypt and going well on both fronts, just building up to take Alexandria and finaly wipe Egypt from the map after that. The Seleucids will be delt with in time.

So I have a question or two about some tactics to use as I have just bee using the Hammer and Anvil tactic, this tactic is good but can get a little...well boring time after time so lets hear some of you Pergamum nuts tactics and how to really give your enemy a pasting.

Also, I like using the Pregamum hoplites behind my main line of regular hoplites and sending them forth[in guard mode] after a few mins of actual battle, and then taking them off guard mode so they push forward and break the enemy. So yes...any other tactics or idea?

[Theoroshia]

I really prefer Pergamum (Pergamon in RS II) for a very simple reason: it combines the Macedonian phalangites, the Greek hoplites and the Scythian horse masters into a truly well rounded military. My favorite tactic is to have the enemy crash into a wall of hoplites (with my phalangites on the sides to protect from flanking cavalry), with horse archers going after enemy archers and my heavy cavalry doing charges from the rear of the enemy.

I wish I could tell you all about Pergamon in RS II, but I can't (not yet, anyway). What I can say is that it keeps the well rounded force it has in RS 1.5 and adds in a lot of new units.

[Alavaria]

Also, I like using the Pregamum hoplites behind my main line of regular hoplites and sending them forth[in guard mode] after a few mins of actual battle, and then taking them off guard mode so they push forward and break the enemy. So yes...any other tactics or idea?

I take up to three units of those Pergamon hoplites for the morale bonus they give other units.

Take 4 to 6 units of well upgraded archers (Temple of Artemis + Foundry + Hephaestus + Ares + Ludus Magna) and 2 generals (in case one dies ^__^). And everything else is militia hoplites. Maybe even have a reinforcement group of MHoplites, since they die so fast.

Place all the (many) militia hoplites in one line, such that each unit is squareish. When the enemy hits the line, look for units that aren't engaged. Run them forward a bit and then turn around so the enemy is caught in between hoplites. Any units that still aren't engaged (way too far from the action maybe) would move forward to screen your guys, or run back and stand close to those archers. Then again, archers are even less expensive to recruit than militia hoplites, so ...

I really prefer Pergamum (Pergamon in RS II) for a very simple reason: it combies the Macedonian phalangites, the Greek hoplites and the Scythian horse masters into a truly well rounded military.

You get pikemen? Hmm, I haven't found any of those, unless you mean the phalanx "hoplites".

[Banzai!]

Pergamum. Traitor to the Empire* ; traitor to the race** ; ruled by some idiot king who gifted away all his lands to the Roman. Kill it with fire!!!!!!!

*Empire = Seleucid Empire
**Race = Greeks / Hellenes

PS: Frigging Pergamum.

[Alavaria]

Wait, you mean the Romans actually took the land? Funny, they won't whenever I try to give them some ^__^

I must say though, Pergamum is in a pretty nice spot, with bits of the Seleucid/Egyptian lands to nibble on, and all the rich coastline and several easily defensible islands.

Hmm, I was looking in EDB, and it seems the Romans get a lot of cool stuff no one else ever does (and can only they control the Marian Reforms event?)

[Theoroshia]

Pergamum. Traitor to the Empire* ; traitor to the race** ; ruled by some idiot king who gifted away all his lands to the Roman. Kill it with fire!!!!!!!

*Empire = Seleucid Empire
**Race = Greeks / Hellenes

PS: Frigging Pergamum.

Please, read a text book, or at least a pamphlet, before replying. Pergamon was a Macedonian possession until it rebelled during the post-Alexander years, therefore why it has such a strong anti-Macedon feeling and why it allied with Rome against Macedon in multiple wars.

As for the Seleucids, the Attalid king at the time didn't want a former Macedonian ruling over Pergamon. Their fight for independence from foreign control and enlistment of Roman help can therefore be viewed as a necessity.

And traitor to their 'race'? What does that even mean?

Finally, in reference to your 'idiot king' statement...what Attalus III did took vast amounts of wisdom and courage. To take a land and people that his father and his grandfather fought and made into a powerhouse in their region and to cede it to some foreign land is indeed a difficult choice, one that was perhaps the best one. The Attalids would have well remembered what had happened after Alexander died, and did not want the same thing happening to their kingdom.

You get pikemen? Hmm, I haven't found any of those, unless you mean the phalanx "hoplites".

You get access to Macedonian pike men.

[Brusilov]

I guess with many Macedonian based armies you are always going to be limited to 'hammer and anvil' tactics if you keep to the traditional phalanx centered army. I always keep the Phalanx units in the central part of my line and use hoplites to protect the flanks. The only variation that I use is the number of cavalry and/or other units on the flank. I tend to use 3 or 4 cavalry units maximum, I presume you could always use the general as another cavalry unit (I tend to protect my general as much as possible).

The hoplites on the flank can be used to attack the flanks of the enemy as they are pinned against the phalanx. The hoplites with guard mode off can make a mess with opposing forces. Just make sure that you don't let them persue any routing units as they can be easily surrounded and destroyed that way.

I have in the past just used a hoplite based army for Pergamon - just for a change. Simply replace the phalanx units with hoplites - it does make a more flexible army.

I have in the past used a number of horse archer units to make a mess of the opposition - I think the maximum I've used is four units. I get a bit tired of Horse Archers as it's too easy to wipe out enemy cavalry with them....

For a sneak peak of the Pergamon RSII units (a screen shot I took that Tone posted in the forum so it's OK to show) check out post #8039 in the following thread: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...88#post5993088

The other 'gems' in RS1.5 are Pontus and Syracuse.

I've been to Bergama (Pergamon/Pergamum) in Turkey. It's a nice walk down from the Acropolis into the town - although I didn't really enjoy having stones thrown at me by some young kids (I did throw the stones back).

[malibu.stacey]

The other 'gems' in RS1.5 are Pontus and Syracuse.

You mean 2.0, right?

I think you can easliy add the Kingdom of Bosporus to the "gems" list as well. The unit roster and atmosphere of these factions is simply amazing...

[Brusilov]

You mean 2.0, right?

I think you can easliy add the Kingdom of Bosporus to the "gems" list as well. The unit roster and atmosphere of these factions is simply amazing...

No, because RSII has not been released as yet. At the moment there is no Syracuse faction in RSII beta - but I think it will be there as a swap faction in the future.

Well, I've not played RS1.5 for over a year now as I've been involved with RSII beta and other projects.

[MutantHippie]

thank you very much gentlemen I will put some of this into practice and let you guys know how this go's in egypt

[MutantHippie]

well it was going smoothly, Me and Pontus nocked the seleucids from the peninsula, I built up six grand armies of pregamum and was about to invade my once honourable allies Pontus, during the staging of said invasion The Seleucids came back with avengence and beseiged Antioch with two and a half stacks. Now the armies used for the invasion against Pontus have been re routed to do battle with those damned Seleucids once again, lets hope Pontus doesnt realise what those armies were for originaly . Unfortunalty due to the re route of my armies it all turned into a bit of a logistical nightmare XD, oh yes, no one except Pontus and Greeks want to be allies with me lol. Rome seems to be expanding quite well into gaul and germania, along with there Iberian allies, I feel sorry for those europeans. Egypt has more or less wipes Carthage from the map and taken most of northern africa. Every one else is just kind of hoping they dont get notices by the Rome I think. I hope they dont come for me just yet as my coastline is undefended except for a few garrisons.

I would like to thank everyone above for there input as I have been using a few strategies and combining them with my own .

Also once again a BIG THANKYOU to the Roma Surrectum Team for a truely amazing mod Im having so much fun XD. Ill try to post some screenies soon

[Alavaria]

Rome is relatively interesting to take because you can drop forts at all of the river crossings in Italy, thus isolating a settlement from their stacks. This makes it easy to take their land one settlement at a time, while their stacks are stranded on the other side of the fort and can't reinforce in time before you assault.

For the Selucids, get really upgraded archers to kill the levy/phalanx pikemen. And the royal pikemen, I try to get two units of militia hoplites attacking from the sides at once, so you can grind it down from behind/the side. Alternatively, if they're standing still, run some archers up to their back and fire point-blank.

If the pikemen keep turning around when you try to attack them, I use a unit of militia hoplites 2 men thick. When they attack the pikes, the unit naturally tends to wrap around, and the pikes get confused since they're surrounded, but the unit is "in front" of them.

[MutantHippie]

Well I dont use Militia Hoplites in my army makup, I suppose it could be done with any type of unit, excluding things like archers and the like. I think Ill have to start using more missile units to as I currently use none

[MutantHippie]

Also is it possible to actualy get a phalanx line to move as one line as mine tend to break up a little even when it guard mode. Its like they are trying to be the first ones to fight, its like slow down you will all get some Seleucid blood on your pikes just calm down XD

[Theoroshia]

Unfortunately, terrain plays a big part in keeping a phalanx in formation. If you have one half of your line going over a small incline (or even a large one), they'll fall behind the other half of the line and break the phalanx.

[MutantHippie]

Unfortunately, terrain plays a big part in keeping a phalanx in formation. If you have one half of your line going over a small incline (or even a large one), they'll fall behind the other half of the line and break the phalanx.

Damn, well looks like I will stick with defensing strategies then ...unless running a hoplite army.

[Theoroshia]

Frankly, I despise the phalanx. I don't see the strategic advantage in it, although it must have worked, as witnessed in Alexander's many conquests.

[Alavaria]

The phalanx is pretty good if the enemy runs right into it (which happens sometimes). I don't use it often though, even in the perfect situation (narrow city roads?) it seems hoplites work better in defense, because they don't switch to swords and suddenly become much worse. An exception: the AI's phalanxes seem to be controlled perfectly, usually they'll ensure something is in the front, and can turn even when they're being attack from all sides, and then move forward to ut their way out, even with people obviously stabbing the men in the rear of the formation.

I've been thinking - using AI controlled reinforcement armies is of course a little annoying, because the AI doesn't control as well as people - but suppose I gave the AI an army of 20 units of Militia Hoplites. I'd try to time it so that as I'm in the middle of engaging the enemy, all these militia (probably all 20 units, knowing the AI) basically show up and simply overrun the enemy. With a single stack, it's hard to get 2 units on every dangerous enemy unit.

However, if the AI can at least charge an army of infantry, it seems like even with its bad decisions, it might be possible to take less losses simply because all the new units would be attacking the flank/sides - and if they aren't, that still frees up my men to attack the enemy's backs. And of course, we all know that it's perfectly fine to lose militia, since a single settlement can crank out 9 units/turn, over and over and over ...

I'm getting annoyed since I see that some of the rebels have massive hoplite (overhand and phalanx) armies, and its hard to flank 15 enemy units with less than that number. I really like Pergamon, but ever since I saw that Syracuse preview that mentioned how they were capable of spamming levy hoplites, I just have to try and slam 2 or even 3 stacks of those into an army of Romans. Ah, the sight of a unit of triarii surrounded by 5 units of militia with no way out.

[Austen Bin]

I haven't used this tactic intentionally, but there were times I was caught off guard and had to resort to gorilla fighting. basically, I was attacked in an undefended part of my territory, so I had to gather troops from all over my city garrisons. I had mainly skirmishers with light cavalry and a small corps of hoplites.

I used the skirmishers to divide the enemy units and had my hoplite corps attack isolated units and destroy them. If the enemy rallied his forces, I would withdraw my hoplites and have my skirmishers try to break them up again. The light cavalry would draw any enemy cavalry away from infantry support and pepper them with javelins or whatever they had and, if they were engage, all my cavalry would try to attack single units from all angles.

If worse came to worse, I could withdraw most of my forces and have them live to fight another day without taking high losses and inflicting many casualties on the enemy. even if I lost a lot of skirmishers, they are cheep and easy to replace while I protect my hoplites.

This is a tough tactic to pull off and takes a lot of micro-management, but it makes for an intense fight, and can take a losing battle and turn it into a fighting chance. The battlefield can get very spread out, but the trick is to drive small enemy units into the hoplites. its a way to take a cheep and/or understrength army and put up a defense against a superior and better equipped enemy.

[Ybbon]

I haven't used this tactic intentionally, but there were times I was caught off guard and had to resort to gorilla fighting.

There are Gorillas too now, part of the Primate Faction?

I guess you meant smelly hairy types creeping around in the undergrowth and carrying weapons, i.e. Guerrillas rather than smelly hairy types creeping around in the undergrowth without weapons i.e Gorillas

p.s just having a bit of fun, no offense intended.