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Thread: Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

  1. #1
    Ummon's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
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    Default Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

    http://www.corriere.it/International...daughter.shtml

    Man Kills Daughter over Affair with Italian
    Woman of Moroccan origin murdered in woods near Pordenone. Northern League condemns “another Hina case”


    MILAN – Sanaa was stabbed by her father in her partner’s car. The 18-year-old of Moroccan origin bled to death in a wood at Montereale Valcellina, in the province of Pordenone, where she was trying to escape her parent’s fury. Religious motives may lie behind the crime. The victim’s full name is Sanaa Dafani and for the past four or five months, she had been going out with Massimo De Biasio, 31. Her 45-year-old father, El Katawi Dafani, an assistant cook who works in Pordenone, could not tolerate his daughter’s relationship.

    Just before 7 pm yesterday evening, he surprised the couple in a car at Grizzo, near Montereale Valcellina. They were on their way to the Spia restaurant, where De Biasio is a partner and Sanaa worked as a waitress. Mr Dafani approached the Audi knife in hand. His daughter jumped out of the car and tried to run off but one of his thrusts slit her throat. Mr De Biasio managed to get away and raise the alarm. His condition is not serious. Friends of the couple say that the 13-year age difference was not the only reason why Sanaa’s father refused to accept the relationship. The Italian Catholic had to stay away from the Muslim girl. Recently, Mr Dafani threatened the couple on several occasions and the situation had deteriorated. A few weeks ago, Sanaa moved in with Massimo. When Carabinieri officers from the Sacile company arrested Mr Dafani yesterday evening, he was trying to remove stains of his daughter’s blood. The Northern League mayor of Azzano Decimo, Enzo Bortolotti is outraged: “Another Hina case which proves that integration with Islamic culture is not possible”.
    While visiting Egypt, many people have been told by locals that "the ancient Egyptians were wise, they built for the life which lasts longer".

    Any real believer, will tell you this is true.

    But when we build for eternal life, to kill those we love in order to avoid that they sin, thus squandering eternity, becomes an act of love.

    One of the reasons of the commandment: He who is without sin throw the first stone is avoiding that others pay for your religiosity.

    What happened in Italy shows something, but what?

  2. #2
    Tigran of Sasoun's Avatar Sōkō no yari
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    Default Re: Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Ummon View Post
    What happened in Italy shows something, but what?
    That islam is the stupidest religion and it has no place in Europe?

  3. #3
    Mikelus Trento's Avatar Kamikaze
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    Default Re: Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Tigran of Sasoun View Post
    That islam is the stupidest religion and it has no place in Europe?
    Sounds like more blame should be placed on an ignorant father vs. slamming a religion.
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    Thema'zandaar's Avatar Taihō no heishi
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    Default Re: Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

    Some parents really need to learn to let go of their kids and allow them to grow up.

    I refuse to believe this is about religion. Any semi-reasonable person who believes in God would understand that if you sin, you go to hell - there's no need to kill the sinner, they'll die of natural causes someday. This is about control.

  5. #5
    Phier's Avatar Living in Gomorrah
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    Default Re: Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

    I do not believe that such honor killings are done to save the soul of the murdered. They are a basic barbaric act on the honor of the family being more important than the happiness of the individual member.

    As a father I can't imagine the mindset which leads to this any more than I can imagine the mindset which blows up innocent people and thinks its a act of martyrdom condoned by god.
    Dumbpiphany: The realization that the reason the entire conversation has been difficult to follow is that you're talking to an idiot.

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    Razor's Avatar Licenced to kill
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    Default Re: Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Thema'zandaar View Post
    Some parents really need to learn to let go of their kids and allow them to grow up.

    I refuse to believe this is about religion. Any semi-reasonable person who believes in God would understand that if you sin, you go to hell - there's no need to kill the sinner, they'll die of natural causes someday. This is about control.
    Well with muslims there's still this thing about family's honour. An affair of a muslim girl with an Italian would disgrace the whole family. Not sure if mane are putting it into practice, but when it comes to religion I'm not surprised if it happens.
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    Phier's Avatar Living in Gomorrah
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    Default Re: Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Razor View Post
    Well with muslims there's still this thing about family's honour. An affair of a muslim girl with an Italian would disgrace the whole family. Not sure if mane are putting it into practice, but when it comes to religion I'm not surprised if it happens.
    Until a population is willing to intermarry, there is no integration possible.

    Its always 'Us' vrs 'them'.
    Dumbpiphany: The realization that the reason the entire conversation has been difficult to follow is that you're talking to an idiot.

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  8. #8
    Sher Khan's Avatar Mad Nomad Dad
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    Default Re: Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

    Sin?

    No, this is about honor and patriarchy, the ties that bind.

  9. #9
    Phier's Avatar Living in Gomorrah
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    Default Re: Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Sher Khan View Post
    Sin?

    No, this is about honor and patriarchy, the ties that bind.
    Sounds like you approve.

    Is this the case?
    Dumbpiphany: The realization that the reason the entire conversation has been difficult to follow is that you're talking to an idiot.

    My shameful truth.

  10. #10
    Razor's Avatar Licenced to kill
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    Default Re: Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Until a population is willing to intermarry, there is no integration possible.

    Its always 'Us' vrs 'them'.
    I agree
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  11. #11
    mongrel's Avatar Woof Justice
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    Default Re: Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Ummon View Post
    What happened in Italy shows something, but what?
    An odd question from the Ministry of the bleeding obvious.

    Perhaps it might suggest that you have not read or seen Romeo and Juliet which might fill some of the gaps.

    Or one could reflect that this sorry practice knows no religious boundaries.

    http://www.thehindu.com/2009/02/11/s...1151150300.htm

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...ee-719118.html

    http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Sky...20080641303175

    and many others.
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  12. #12
    Sher Khan's Avatar Mad Nomad Dad
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    Default Re: Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    Sounds like you approve.

    Is this the case?
    Of course not.

    I'm offended you could even say that.

  13. #13
    Phier's Avatar Living in Gomorrah
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    Default Re: Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Sher Khan View Post
    Of course not.

    I'm offended you could even say that.
    Offended enough to kill?

    Just making sure we are clear on motives, this is an international forum after all. Its why I asked.
    Last edited by Phier; September 17, 2009 at 03:58 PM.
    Dumbpiphany: The realization that the reason the entire conversation has been difficult to follow is that you're talking to an idiot.

    My shameful truth.

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    C-Rob's Avatar Yuzo
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    Default Re: Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

    To most people, wouldn't it be slightly, ever so slightly, more reasonable to kill the guy instead and lock her away forever?

    One of my friends tried to claim he wasn't racist but wanted each race to breed wtih its own... Seems ridiculously hypocritical...

  15. #15
    Phier's Avatar Living in Gomorrah
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    Default Re: Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

    Quote Originally Posted by C-Rob View Post
    To most people, wouldn't it be slightly, ever so slightly, more reasonable to kill the guy instead and lock her away forever?
    Dunno it seems that killing the woman is the time honored tradition.

    One of my friends tried to claim he wasn't racist but wanted each race to breed wtih its own... Seems ridiculously hypocritical...
    Dumbpiphany: The realization that the reason the entire conversation has been difficult to follow is that you're talking to an idiot.

    My shameful truth.

  16. #16
    skag's Avatar Senshi
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    Default Re: Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Phier View Post
    I do not believe that such honor killings are done to save the soul of the murdered. They are a basic barbaric act on the honor of the family being more important than the happiness of the individual member.
    Definetly agreed.

  17. #17
    Gromovnik's Avatar Kamikaze
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    Default Re: Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

    I'm sure this has nothing to do with islam...
    Optio, Legio I Latina

  18. #18
    Roiyarugādo
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    Default Re: Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonius View Post
    I'm sure this has nothing to do with islam...
    Try fancying a girl in rural Sicily...

  19. #19
    Gromovnik's Avatar Kamikaze
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    Default Re: Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn777 View Post
    Try fancying a girl in rural Sicily...
    and?
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  20. #20
    boofhead's Avatar Ōji
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    Default Re: Two visions of the world compared: murder your daughter if she sins

    Quote Originally Posted by Ummon View Post
    But when we build for eternal life, to kill those we love in order to avoid that they sin, thus squandering eternity, becomes an act of love.
    No, it's an act of utter selfishness, putting the life of your own flesh and blood, those you are meant to protect, on a lower level than your own ''honour'', aka ''misogynistic, chauvanistic, false, personal ego''.

    Such a crime is not an act of martyrdom, it's an act of murder, barbarity, betrayal, and a complete culture fail.

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