[PASSED 09/23/09] [Civitate] JP226 (Patron: Celsius)

**Soulghast** · September 14, 2009, 10:10 AM

Client: JP226

I'm sure many of you know me, but for those who don’t I’m JP and a fairly active poster in the mudpit and sports forums. Finally, with the help of Celsius, I’m making a push for civiateship. Why would I make a good Civiate? Off the bat, just looking at my post count I can assure you I will be an active member. I also bring a unique background with my own experience. I enjoy discussion on a wide range of subjects stemming from economics, to history to gaming and all around life experiences and funny stories in both sports forum and Thema Devia.

I try to be honest and fair and most importantly consistent with my beliefs. While some may agree with me and others may not, the important part is that post after post, one discussion after another, I remain honest as to what I believe and not change those beliefs for a mere convenience. I may be terse at times, but overall my goal is to further the discussion, albeit I listen too. A large reason as to why I come here and have been coming here for 3, almost 4, years now is that it’s a great group of people. When I first joined way back, it was for upcoming info on RTW. What kept me here, though, was the personality and interesting posts on almost anything. Hope to be a good candidate and hopefully civiate in the not too distant future.

Patron: CelsiusI have noticed JP for a while. I have seen his posts in the Mudpit, and to me, they are well above par. JP has been here for a very long time and has show outstanding posting abilities. He has no active infractions(I doubt he has ever had one). His posts are simply to make a point. He doesn't make fun of people. He doesn't start debates and spam in threads. He is a good poster overall, and I believe he would make an excellent addition to the Curia.

Thank You.

**Augustus Lucifer** · September 14, 2009, 12:11 PM

You know, I'd always thought that JP was one of the gents who passed up Citizenship and wasn't all that interested, so you can imagine my surprise when I see an application here. My overall impression of him, from a large number of encounters particularly in the Olympus, is that he's no nonsense and very up front about his opinion on things, but at the same time doesn't come off as ignorant or obnoxious(which many who fit the former two qualities do).

I'm going to have to have a look at his Mudpit contributions, I know I've seen him around there but I don't drop in near as often as I should. As to the sports contributions, he's generally one of the more well-versed people in the threads. I'd suggest the raucous nature of sports discussion be taken in stride, as the best of us get riled up over our sporting affiliations, not the least of which Sir Boez the Philly.

**Каие** · September 14, 2009, 01:04 PM

I know this is a yes from me. I barely agree with the guy on the issues, and in the past have found his personality disagreeable... but frankly he's a damn lot better than me in that department. If I had been judged solely on what others thought of me, I'd never have made it anywhere around here or anywhere.

I'll judge this on it's merits. He's very educated and intelligent, particularly on economics, and is generally, on average, a good poster in terms of length of posts, arguments, detail, research put into posts, knowledge in the posts, etc. etc. Naturally there are the odd trolls and inflaming remarks, from what I can remember normally aimed at Europeans, particularly Britain, but again, as before, I have no right to be hoity toity and high a mighty on that front either.

**Viking Prince** · September 14, 2009, 05:14 PM

The applicant is a good poster generally. He seems to try and add material to discussions rather than just argue. I have been involved in many threads with him as well as a few pm conversations. He is clearly ready for a rise in rank.

**Pontifex Maximus** · September 14, 2009, 06:00 PM

Absolutely yes.

**Soulghast** · September 17, 2009, 01:49 PM

Poll added.

**Augustus Lucifer** · September 17, 2009, 02:53 PM

Okay so I've given his non-sports contributions a twice over. I'm mixed on that part of it, there are times that he'll show real insight into a topic, as Rome says particularly about economic matters. And yet there are other times that he can't seem to help but post sarcastically chiding statements.

And I got no problem with sarcasm, I love sarcasm when it's applied conservatively within a framework of reasoned points. Admittedly it's one of the lower forms of argument since it serves to make the opponent look silly, but I still find it permissible in moderation. I also think he does try to evidence his position most of the time in a thread.

With JP I think by and large it's not a huge issue, it happens occasionally as I'm sure he'd admit, but overall his contributions to discussion are between passable and solid. And given that, I will be voting yes on this application.

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The reason I bring this up is there's a lot of talk going on now about just how bad the Mudpit has gotten, and it's BAD. There's two proposals on the Prothalmos floor about this problem right now, not to mention a moderation attempt to remedy it going into effect in November. So it's on us the Citizens, if we expect the quality of discussion to change for the better, to set that example and never for any reason stoop to bickering. And it's on us the CdeC to insure that prospective Citizens know that bickering is not acceptable and will not be tolerated because it not only gives the Citizen body a bad reputation, but it also makes the site a worse place for civil discussion.

What I want to make clear, mainly to any prospective candidates who are liable to be referencing applications in the Antechamber, is that bickering, trolling, squabbling, and all-around poor conduct will not be tolerated for D&D applicants. That goes for applications and Citizen referrals. If it's the TD, Q&S, whatever, fine, everyone needs to unwind. But the level of discussion in the D&D -- particularly the Mudpit -- on the whole, is crap. The only way we as Citizens can try and fix that is to lead by example and to recognize those who also choose to lead by example. And it is a choice, nothing compels you to participate in the perennial mudslinging contest that is encouraged in politics and by the media, anyone can choose to participate on a higher plane of discussion, you don't need sources coming out the wazoo and a fancy college degree in Political Science to be reasonable.

What's that phrase Kindergarten teachers and parents always used to say? If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all? Something like that. Well it's the same principle, if you can't add constructively to the discussion, hold that thought and don't press the Submit Reply button. Go make a social group to post random shens in, or take it to another forum and say 'lol look at what this guy said over on TWC', I don't particularly care. But don't be posting crap in the D&D and then expect to come apply and get recognized for contributions, that's all I'm trying to say.

And I apologize to JP for this being in his application thread, it's not any reflection on him, it just seemed like as good a place as any to highlight this pertinent issue where people who are thinking of a bid at citizenship are liable to be looking. I added the dotted line to signify when it stopped being about this applicant, but just wanted to reiterate it again in case anyone didn't see it that way.

That actually gets me to thinking, maybe we could use a way, now that the Antechamber is viewable, for the CdeC to communicate to prospective Citizens any guidelines that are concurred upon, in the effort to elucidate our standards to some greater extent than comparing oneself to another candidate or reading CdeC Debate statements. I'll open a thread about it in the H&B.

**Squid** · September 17, 2009, 04:30 PM

That second part of your post, could be put in it's own thread and stickied in the antechamber.

**Astaroth** · September 18, 2009, 11:42 AM

I'm in agreement with everyone else here. While I might not agree with the candidate on many issues he is indeed an able debater and worthy of Citizenship. I'll be voting yes.

**Captain Blackadder** · September 18, 2009, 07:43 PM

He is certainly worthy of citizenship whilst I don't always agree with him on the issues he is a fine debator.

**Justinian** · September 19, 2009, 03:46 AM

Always wondered when he would finally go for it

Voted yes.

**Tankbuster** · September 19, 2009, 08:53 AM

Even though I barely agree with him on any issue, he's an able debater and an intelligent guy, with posts that are usually above par. An all-round decent example for what a Mudpit poster should be like.

Yes.

**the Black Prince** · September 20, 2009, 05:46 AM

He's a smart intelligent guy and an excellent debator. In his younger days he did have a tendency toward spamminess but he's long since got over that. I have to say, I could sworn he's been offered this in the past and refused.