Xtiaan's Pagan Ireland mini-mod discussion

[Xtiaan72]

Pagan Ireland mini-mod discussion

Some of you know that I have been planning a Pagan Ireland mini-mod for quite a while. I have held off till 6.2 so that as much new DLV content as possible can be included.

I'm designing the mod for elite DLV players. It's going to be super hard. Below are my ideas so far and I have the skills to implement most of this stuff on my own. I am reaching out to the DLV mod community for the few things I do need help with and for additional ideas for the mod.


General Description:

After being visited by the Mythic Irish Hero 'Lug' in a dream King Toird is compelled to return to ancient Pagan beliefs. 'Lug' tells Toird to look for 'signs' that the 'Tuatha De Danann are returning from their Sidre to aid him. Toird's decision is also influenced by the Invasion of Eastern Ireland by English nobles. Dublin is under the control of the English in an area of Ireland known as the English Pale. Many of the Eastern Irish Tribes have bowed down to the English King and declared him overlord of Ireland. The English invasion was sanctioned by the Pope, who was not pleased by the Irish's particular brand of Christianity (Many ancient pagan customs,traditions and superstitions continued to exist along side Christianity during this period). The pope is determined to stamp this blasphemy out.

Irish Starting Position:

The Irish start position is the same (Munster) but as part of the story, the O'Brien Clan will need to take Dublin from the English before they can crown future kings (Tara is the ancient pagan site to sanctify Kings of Ireland, it is NW of Dublin and within the 'English Pale'). So in a sense England starts the game occupying your capitol.

Can I have the English occupying Dublin but have that city also be the seat of power for Ireland?

Rebel armies at the beginning of the game will have a good mix of English, Scandinavian and Irish troops. Ireland was in chaos during this period with many Irish Lords seeking foreign assistance to further their claims. The Rebel stacks should reflect this. The English units will be strong and much better equipped than Ireland at the beginning.

One of Cork's starting buildings will be a second or third tier Catholic Church. This building will need to be demolished to begin converting the population to Paganism (but it will also infuriate the pope on your very first turn!) All Irish units will have the Pagan religious requirement and it will take many turns till you will be able to build troops in Cork. Mercenaries and your starting troops will be your only recourse. Ireland does have a large royal family that will be forced to take the field and fight the good fight (a brutal guerrilla war to break out of Cork and take Dublin before old King Toird dies and you can't crown your new king!)

More later on some unique ancillaries for this mod....

Opinions on Pagan Irish Banners?

I'm planning on implementing new banners for the Pagan Irish Faction... Which of the these do you think would be best. If you can find others that you think would be better please post them here!



I like this one, It has very authentic Celtic design elements. It also looks kinda sinister, a flag that might frighten Christians! Reminds me of Mordor or something... But is has no real connection to the Tuatha de Danann. It's just a really cool Pagan battle flag.



Ancient Irish Celt Mandala. This seems like a good way to go. The Irish Mandalas represent mortal communion with their gods. There are several others that look pretty cool as well. The mandalas go well with the story (The legend of the return of the Tuatha).



This would be a pretty bold choice but good for the story! This is the flag of one of the lost tribes of Israel, The tribe of 'Dan'.... The seafaring tribe that split off from the Jews when Moses began the exodus to the promised land. There is much speculation that the Tuatha de 'Dan'ann were a splinter faction of the Tribe of Dan. The legend claims that the Tuatha were from Greece which is consistent with this theory. Controversial but pretty cool for a fantasy mini-mod like this.


More info to come... Looking forward to feedback from the community!

Cheers

[Kjertesvein]

Very cool, make sure you can simulate a civial war, just to tip it in favor of history and difficulty Remember pagan %

[Xtiaan72]

I plan to have every Irish province 95% to 100% Catholic at the beginning. Munster will be the Pagan stronghold with a whopping 20% pagan. Think of the problems KOJ faces with religion at the beginning and multiply that by 10!

I think King Toird is about 58 at the start of the game. So it's a race against time to bust into Dublin. 20 or Thirty turns in, he is most likely going to be dead.... and you know what that means. Not only the religious problems and strong English forces on the island but also the dreaded Offends the Nobility....

But hell that is appropriate for a mad cult of Irish Pagans

[Kjertesvein]

Great, try to see the Kingdom of Jerusalem mini mod, might get some useful tips on manipulating files
Try to make the English, scots, norveghi. more sea fearing against your nation. if it's possible. That seem to lack on orginal campaigns

[Grimblade]

So you will have 2 Irelland factions? Or just as I understood Pagan one? If you have only one I guess (Pagan)then you don't need religion change/conversion script.
export_descr_ancillaries.txt , export_descr_ancillary_enums.txt and export_ancillaries.txt in text folders are only files you need to edit to add new ancillaries (as you probably know) + you need new pictures. But I am not sure how uber hard you can make it. Biggest problems in DLV come in the beginning of the game, middle of the game can be difficult only for factions in the center of Europe, but some factions like HRE can already start to just destroy enemies by then, but "your" Ireland will still be separated by VERY SECURE wall of Sea that will only be breached rarely, (unless you script invasions). You could also "overtune" the beginning and make it too tough, but end up with the early middle of the game that is not that hard at all.
BTW will you add some building/ancillaries that can be used by regular DLV Ireland as well? Some unique building would be nice (even if they are mostly aesthetic like Artist Galleries) and not too tough to implement (you can skip on 3D model you really only need good 2D picture) and few ancillaries, but I understand it takes time.

Nice link to learning about SIMPLE implementations of guilds/buildings is
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...uide+to+guilds

GOOD LUCK, and I hope most of what you implement/add can be added to regular DLV ( some "Pagan" relics could just lower piety and loyalty a bit but add the rest of positive effects for regular DLV Irish Characters, not too much since they are part of culture and not such as divisive point for Irish themselves (unlike it is for external observers or similar relics in some other cultures/nations/factions) despite what the (white) MAN thinks, similar to the "Pagan" swords, of course I suppose everyone would have different interpretation of it but it ultimately rests with You to implement it).

[Xtiaan72]

Well, I've done a little beta testing.... Pagan Ireland drives the pope mad... He calls crusades on you like crazy... I'm going to have some pretty unique and tough victory conditions as well. I think the early, mid game will be pretty hard and slow going. Late game...Well no faction is hard if you get to that point... Having to go to war with England with strong forces on the Isle plus all the original rebel stacks with tougher troop mix will amp up the difficulty as well.

Maybe I should give Dumfries to Norway as well... They occupied many of the islands between Ireland and England during that period...

[Xtiaan72]

So you will have 2 Irelland factions? Or just as I understood Pagan one? If you have only one I guess (Pagan)then you don't need religion change/conversion script.
export_descr_ancillaries.txt , export_descr_ancillary_enums.txt and export_ancillaries.txt in text folders are only files you need to edit to add new ancillaries (as you probably know) + you need new pictures. But I am not sure how uber hard you can make it. Biggest problems in DLV come in the beginning of the game, middle of the game can be difficult only for factions in the center of Europe, but some factions like HRE can already start to just destroy enemies by then, but "your" Ireland will still be separated by VERY SECURE wall of Sea that will only be breached rarely, (unless you script invasions). You could also "overtune" the beginning and make it too tough, but end up with the early middle of the game that is not that hard at all.
BTW will you add some building/ancillaries that can be used by regular DLV Ireland as well? Some unique building would be nice (even if they are mostly aesthetic like Artist Galleries) and not too tough to implement (you can skip on 3D model you really only need good 2D picture) and few ancillaries, but I understand it takes time.

Nice link to learning about SIMPLE implementations of guilds/buildings is
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...uide+to+guilds

GOOD LUCK, and I hope most of what you implement/add can be added to regular DLV ( some "Pagan" relics could just lower piety and loyalty a bit but add the rest of positive effects for regular DLV Irish Characters, not too much since they are part of culture and not such as divisive point for Irish themselves (unlike it is for external observers or similar relics in some other cultures/nations/factions) despite what the (white) MAN thinks, similar to the "Pagan" swords, of course I suppose everyone would have different interpretation of it but it ultimately rests with You to implement it).

I'm not adding a whole new faction... Just tarting up the one we got... I don't think most of what I'm doing is going to work in DLV proper. It's more of a stand-alone campaign for people who want to try something a little different and hopefully challenging!

I've never messed with ancillaries before and I know you have which is why I PMed you. Can you point me in the direction of a tutorial for creating new ancillaries and scripting the conditions for where and how they are found?

And yea, your right I know how to change religion and basic stuff like that

[Grimblade]

I'm not adding a whole new faction... Just tarting up the one we got... I don't think most of what I'm doing is going to work in DLV proper. It's more of a stand-alone campaign for people who want to try something a little different and hopefully challenging!

I've never messed with ancillaries before and I know you have which is why I PMed you. Can you point me in the direction of a tutorial for creating new ancillaries and scripting the conditions for where and how they are found?

And yea, your right I know how to change religion and basic stuff like that

OK WILL Update here (in this post) in a bit though I didn't use a specific thread more like a "collage" (is that a right word ).

UPDATE I:
OK best place to start is this forum (at least best place that I know of)
Start from this thread.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=92488
I mentioned that export_descr_ancillaries.txt , export_descr_ancillary_enums.txt and export_ancillaries.txt in text folders are only files you need to edit to add new ancillaries (as you probably know) + you need new pictures.
For traits you need export_descr_character_traits.txt; export_descr_VnVs_enums.txt in data and export_VnVs.txt in data/text folder/directory.

There are TWO level of scripting that custom user can do (hackers not really included of course) in M2TW (that I know off).
Scripts from world/maps/campaign are loaded at the start and require a campaign restart to function properly.
campaign_script.txt also contains some really basic variables know as counters that can store values but they are SOOOOO limited you can't even use them in multiplications or division operations and I think they are all integers.
Also no ELSE IF statements or anything complex in script.

export_descr_ancillaries.txt , export_descr_ancillary_enums.txt and export_ancillaries.txt in text folder's and export_descr_character_traits.txt; export_descr_VnVs_enums.txt in data and export_VnVs.txt in data/text folder/directory can be modified WITHOUT campaign restart. They are easier to work AND TEST (which is VERY important).
Also there is a HANDY application someone made TraitValidator.exe that is already inside DLV data folder. It will check your ancillary and traits files for most basic of errors but not for really complex ones (let alone logical errors) or stuff like spelling.
First start by adding a really simple ancillary that will be give 100% of time.
Then do the same with a simple trait.
Then try to combine them, lets say if person has an ancillaries he might get certain trait.
Now work from there.
Also be sure to find and check http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=118578 DOCUDEMON file. Really useful.
And before you start all of that ask your self is it really worth it
unless you plan to take it slooooow .

UPDATE II :

Also look around
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=1015

and ask a lot of questions in

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=276

[Grimblade]

Can I have the English occupying Dublin but have that city also be the seat of power for Ireland?

Of course Seat of Power is mechanic added through DLV script not hardcoded in M2TW engine.

[Xtiaan72]

Thanks for all the info Grimblade, you are a saint...

I'm making progress... England now owns Dublin but I've been trying for like two hours to garrison it!!!

Tried creating new characters and moving existing ones in the strat file and then deleting RWM map or (what ever the fck it is) But that didn't work. So I'm assuming there are a few other files I need to look at.

Tips or links anybody? thx in advance....

For now, I'm just going to continue with the things I know how to do for tonight. Change their religion, update the EDB for Pagan religious conversions.... Heist the Pagan Temples from Lithuania for now and rewrite those decriptions ( That will be fun!)...Change the catholic priest model to pagan. Build a big ass church in Cork that will have to be knocked down to build a pagan temple...( That will get the popes attention!) I'm going to start them with a Scholarium to. If any faction should start with a scholarium it's the Irish.

And I'll give Dumfries to Norway just to make things even hotter for the celts.

But after that I need to figure out how to put some new powerful armies on the map for England and Norway... and I definitely need some direction in that dept!

[Grimblade]

Thanks for all the info Grimblade, you are a saint...

I'm making progress... England now owns Dublin but I've been trying for like two hours to garrison it!!!

Tried creating new characters and moving existing ones in the strat file and then deleting RWM map or (what ever the fck it is) But that didn't work. So I'm assuming there are a few other files I need to look at.

Tips or links anybody? thx in advance....

For now, I'm just going to continue with the things I know how to do for tonight. Change their religion, update the EDB for Pagan religious conversions.... Heist the Pagan Temples from Lithuania for now and rewrite those decriptions ( That will be fun!)...Change the catholic priest model to pagan. Build a big ass church in Cork that will have to be knocked down to build a pagan temple...( That will get the popes attention!) I'm going to start them with a Scholarium to. If any faction should start with a scholarium it's the Irish.

And I'll give Dumfries to Norway just to make things even hotter for the celts.

But after that I need to figure out how to put some new powerful armies on the map for England and Norway... and I definitely need some direction in that dept!

create_unit London in Campaign Script (world/maps/campaign/..?) for just the units
find the right one

hmm descr_strat.txt character move didn't work? Well TBH I never treid to do it
and now I am getting rusty too since I got bored of modding

there is some quirk to moving characters (I think); you might need to check mod help part of forum

[Xtiaan72]

I'm kind of beat at the moment! I finished all the above projects so I can't move forward until I figure this adding army bit out.

Talk about frustration and the workshop fellas aren't too familiar with DLV, all the scripts and tips are for MTWII (vanilla) and they are much different. So none of those tips are working.... I'm going to have to call in the heavy guns now!!!!!

[Xtiaan72]

Back on track!

[Xtiaan72]

Each Irish Province has it's own kerns with clan names of some of the more famous clans from that area. Each clan will have slightly different stats and will be availble only in the province they are traditionally from


Clan O'Sullivan is available in Munster. They are also my ancestors!

[Pilgrim9]

wow ive always wanted a pagan ireland.... tried to do it but failed miserably
umm i have 3 questions and it'd be great if you guys could answer

1-hows it progressing?

2-(sorry is this isnt allowed) is there anyway this could be implemented for stainless steel?
3- how epic are you going to make the de danann soldiers? =)

[CelticPagan]

Really looking forward to seeing this completed.

[Peteriscoolz]

Is this done?

[Galloglaich]

100% behind this project! I'd love to see this complete. +rep to you, my friend! Extra challenge is always great.

[Tokus*Maximus]

Good if other Cath' faction get the offer to break away and revert to their earlier traditions too. Maybe start the tipping point of a chain-reaction of states shifting their religious base.

Keep up the great work - as always!

-- Tokus

[Galloglaich]

It would be great to have every faction unique like it seems to be happening with first norway and now Ireland. Ah.. man can dream.