Newbie Getting Into Shape

[dillonb3]

I decided that I wanted to get into better shape and not end up like an out of shape mess like Kerry Katona but been a newbie I don't know where to start so I'm looking for advice on how to go about this. I'm going on a diet and trying to exercise in the gym but going to the gym is the main problem. I went there last week and could bearly last 10mins on the treadmill so how long and often should I exercise and what foods should I eat to improve my stamina?

[Metallistic]

I decided that I wanted to get into better shape and not end up like an out of shape mess like Kerry Katona but been a newbie I don't know where to start so I'm looking for advice on how to go about this. I'm going on a diet and trying to exercise in the gym but going to the gym is the main problem. I went there last week and could bearly last 10mins on the treadmill so how long and often should I exercise and what foods should I eat to improve my stamina?

Next time you go to the gym, consult with a gym instructor.He is there for a reason.

[Tankbuster]

Yes, obviously checking with a gym instructor or preferably a nutritionist or a qualified physician is the first thing you should do. I know you might feel strong enough to do anything, but training too hard too fast can be very dangerous and could get you injured in no time flat. So do that.

I'll be glad to give you some advice, but I do need some pointers to give me an overall idea. Could you give me some general information about yourself? Age, height, weight, goals and objectives, experience in terms of working out and sports,...
Can you do push-ups, pull-ups, stuff like that?

It's really difficult to give advice without this kind of background info.
Some general truisms about improving stamina are simply keeping at it, making sure to stretch (especially afterwards), getting a pair of good running shoes,...
In terms of diet it's even more difficult to give general guidelines, but dropping calorie intake to a couple hundreds (I don't recommend more than 200-300 if you're working out) below your general calorie intake, try to get a bit of protein in every meal, drink lots of water, and prefer 5 or 6 smaller meals to 3 larger meals (that boosts your metabolism).

[dillonb3]

Yes, obviously checking with a gym instructor or preferably a nutritionist or a qualified physician is the first thing you should do. I know you might feel strong enough to do anything, but training too hard too fast can be very dangerous and could get you injured in no time flat. So do that.

I'll be glad to give you some advice, but I do need some pointers to give me an overall idea. Could you give me some general information about yourself? Age, height, weight, goals and objectives, experience in terms of working out and sports,...
Can you do push-ups, pull-ups, stuff like that?

It's really difficult to give advice without this kind of background info.
Some general truisms about improving stamina are simply keeping at it, making sure to stretch (especially afterwards), getting a pair of good running shoes,...
In terms of diet it's even more difficult to give general guidelines, but dropping calorie intake to a couple hundreds (I don't recommend more than 200-300 if you're working out) below your general calorie intake, try to get a bit of protein in every meal, drink lots of water, and prefer 5 or 6 smaller meals to 3 larger meals (that boosts your metabolism).

I appreciate you willing to give some advice at the moment I'm 19 weighing 11 stone I can do push ups pull ups etc. and I play indoor football once weekly I'm trying to improve my fitness so I can maintain my energy when playing football and drop a stone in weight. If this is a bit vague I can try to give more info.

[Tankbuster]

OK, well you're obviously not very heavy (unless you're not that tall?), so your objective should not be losing weight as much as it should be building muscle.
If you're just starting out, it's important to let your joints adapt to the stress you'll be putting on them. I wouldn't start isolation exercices on the gym just quite yet, you're simply not entirely ready (injury danger) and the stabilizing muscles on your upper body are not ready for it either. Besides, full-body exercises will be much more effective at building muscle for a 'newbie'.

Excellent full-body exercises are chin-ups (great biceps and outer chest exercise), pull-ups (the king of back exercises and the best all-round upper body exercise there is IMO), push-ups (chest exercise), crunches (abs), and squats and lunges (lower body exercises; you can probably start using weights on these quite soon, since your lower body is probably quite strong from football).
I'd recommend doing these for a couple of weeks before really hitting the weights in the gym (cf. the usual biceps curls, bench press, lat pulldowns, etc...)

What you could also do is get yourself a kettlebell. Those also have a great potential for strengthening your upper body. I'm more into the traditional exercises though.

The second leg is cardio. Try to go running a couple of times a week.

The third leg is eating right. Most objectives here are fairly straightforward (not too much fat, plenty of proteins), but try to spread the protein throughout the day.

I'll be on vacation for a week, so I hope I could give you some pointers (sorry for not being very detailed, I have little time ATM; perhaps others can help you out some more). Either way, if you've got more questions I'll get back to you in about a week. Good luck

[ivan_the_terrible]

Tankbuster, I'm also seeking similar advice to the OP, and I would appreciate if you could provide some general advice for me as well.

I'm 19, am 185cm tall, and weigh c.90kg. My fitness is quite average, I would say. I go to the gym 2 or 3 times a week (depending on study load), and usually do the following: 15-20 minute cycle for a warm up, stretch for 5-10 minutes, do some light lifting (6-7kg dumbells) for 5-10 minutes, then either run on a treadmill or row for 15-20 minutes (not continuously though - I can't run for more than 2 miles witout stopping), followed by shooting some hoops for a warm down.

Lately, I've taken to going in the morning, which means the basketball court is usually empty. So, having heard something about 'interval training', I sometimes do that with basketball instead of my run. That is, I begin at one hoop, drible while jogging for half the court, from half way I run/sprint and do a layup a the other end. I regather the ball and repeat in the other direction, and so forth. I think that amounts to interval training, no?


As to my current state and goals, I'm 'reasonably' athletic, though a little overweight. I weighed c.100kg last year, and doing what I described above had no effect for half a year. Then for some reason my weight dropped to around 90/91, which is where it has remained.

Ideally, I would like to lose another 10 kg, though I would be content with 5. From the charts I've seen my weight should be 75-80kg, though I'm sure I'd have lose muscle to weigh 75. That's why I'm aiming for 85 or 80 for a start.

So what would you (or any other fitness/sports gurus here) suggest I do?

Thanks.

[dogukan]

Ivan being 185 and 90 kg is normal....if you were a muscled guy you'd be like that. Are they fat in your case or what? I feel like you are a prtty fit guy.

[ivan_the_terrible]

Ah, kind words my friend.

I would say a substantial part of it is fat. Though there's definitely some muscle too, because like I said I don't think it would be possible for me to go to 75 kg without losing muscle. 80 - maybe, I'm not sure.

But the point is I'm not really in optimal physical condition - not that total perfection is what I'm aiming for, just a little bit better shape.

[Tankbuster]

Tankbuster, I'm also seeking similar advice to the OP, and I would appreciate if you could provide some general advice for me as well.

I'm 19, am 185cm tall, and weigh c.90kg. My fitness is quite average, I would say. I go to the gym 2 or 3 times a week (depending on study load), and usually do the following: 15-20 minute cycle for a warm up, stretch for 5-10 minutes, do some light lifting (6-7kg dumbells) for 5-10 minutes, then either run on a treadmill or row for 15-20 minutes (not continuously though - I can't run for more than 2 miles witout stopping), followed by shooting some hoops for a warm down.

Lately, I've taken to going in the morning, which means the basketball court is usually empty. So, having heard something about 'interval training', I sometimes do that with basketball instead of my run. That is, I begin at one hoop, drible while jogging for half the court, from half way I run/sprint and do a layup a the other end. I regather the ball and repeat in the other direction, and so forth. I think that amounts to interval training, no?


As to my current state and goals, I'm 'reasonably' athletic, though a little overweight. I weighed c.100kg last year, and doing what I described above had no effect for half a year. Then for some reason my weight dropped to around 90/91, which is where it has remained.

Ideally, I would like to lose another 10 kg, though I would be content with 5. From the charts I've seen my weight should be 75-80kg, though I'm sure I'd have lose muscle to weigh 75. That's why I'm aiming for 85 or 80 for a start.

So what would you (or any other fitness/sports gurus here) suggest I do?

Thanks.

I don't think I qualify as a fitness guru yet, but thanks
Starting with your question about the interval training; what you want to be aiming for is called 'High-Intensity Interval Training' or HIIT for short. These training schemes usually aim for either a 2:1 or 3:1 low-high intensity. That means you want to be going for something like 60 or maximum 90 seconds jogging (walking if jogging in between is too hard) and then going all out in 30 seconds. Which brings us to the reasons why your basketball routine is not all that good; now don't get me wrong, it's definitely a good cardiovascular exercise and it will be good for your overall fitness without a doubt, but if your goal is going for the increased fat-burning that HIIT provides, then it won't work).
First of all, the time schedule is not really there. One of the goals of HIIT is to trick the body into using different energy reserves (the body is thinking "Okay he's jogg... HOLY MACARONI BATMAN HE'S SPRINTING, USE ALL RESERVES!... Phew, now he's jogging again... Let's stop the extra energy suppl... OH DAMN THERE HE GOES AGAIN!"); the sprinting keeps your body into high energy usage the entire time, but because of the jogging in between it also lasts longer and lets you burn fat fast for a long amount of time).
Second of all, the sudden bursts of energy can't be there, because you're dribbling, and we all now that you can't go all out when you're dribbling. You really need to sprint.
The best ways to do HIIT are on a running field or on a stationairy bike (not even a treadmill either, because that also won't let you to do those sudden bursts of energy as fast as you can).

Now a necessary step for getting in shape and losing fat is of course hitting the weights. Now you say that you do 5-10 minutes of light weight lifting. That's just not enough. I can't even do two exercises in that time, three at the most. A second criticism is that you say that you use dumbbells of 6-7 kilograms. It depends on the exercise of course, but for a 90 kilogram guy that's just ridiculous. I'm only about 75 kg right now and I do biceps curls with 12 kg (and that's usually after a routine of 60-70 chin-ups).
In short, your weight lifting routines are too short and not intensive enough. You need to up the weights and do your exercises decently (3 sets for each exercise with 12 reps maximum, and with good form).
I'd need more information to give exact recommendations, but I think I can give you about the same advice as I gave to dillonb3: do full-body exercises first (but do them well), and then move on to the lifting. It's better to do full-body exercises with no weights than doing isolation exercises with light weights.

If you do these two then you'll lose fat and build muscle.

[ivan_the_terrible]

Thanks very much for the detailed reply.

Just to clarify, should I do the weights before HIIT, or HIIT before the weights?

Also with regard to HIIT, how long do I want to go for in order for it to have an effect, and not be a waste? 10, 15, 20 minutes? Until I can't carry on?


I think I'll do the HIIT on the stationary bikes, since I quite like them and use them for warming up anyway. Could it also be done with a rowing machine? (since it lets you control the pace directly..)


Also, I've got the impression from elsewhere that doing weights increases your muscle mass, but only decreases fat indirectly through affecting metabolism, which is marginal. And that cardiovascular exercise is the one that burns most of the fat. Is this true?

Once again, thanks.

[Tankbuster]

Thanks very much for the detailed reply.

It's a pleasure! I'm happy to help

On to your questions:

Just to clarify, should I do the weights before HIIT, or HIIT before the weights?

Usually the answer to these kinds of questions is that it doesn't really matter. The effect either way is usually marginal, but in this case the answer is a bit more important.
Ideally, you actually don't do your HIT and your weight lifting on the same days, because both will drain your glycogen (muscle-builders) reserves for the day, if you do them right.
Check MimirsWell excellent posts here for details.

Also with regard to HIIT, how long do I want to go for in order for it to have an effect, and not be a waste? 10, 15, 20 minutes? Until I can't carry on?

For as long as you feel you can keep going, ideally. Generally, since you're running close to your maximum, you won't be running for all that long. I usually do about 8 or 9 times a 90-sec jog 30-sec sprint routine, perhaps ten times on a really good day. With warm-up and warm-down included that's about half an hour, and I'm pretty down empty afterwards.
Since there are sprints involved, it starts having an effect in raising your metabolism and burning fat very fast, even after a few minutes. By the duration of your routine you then determine how long you want it to go on.

I think I'll do the HIIT on the stationary bikes, since I quite like them and use them for warming up anyway. Could it also be done with a rowing machine? (since it lets you control the pace directly..)

I never thought of that, but that sounds like a great idea because it also utilizes your upper body and engages your entire body. Stationairy bikes are also good, I use them often.
HIIT doesn't need to be running necessarily, it's just that running or biking are exercises that you can generally do for a pretty long time and
In theory you could do involve your HIIT in your push-ups or pull-ups as well, but it's just not practical and close to impossible. You're better off doing HIIT for your endurance with running/biking/rowing and do a good 3-set weight-lifting routine for muscle building.
As long as you're tired as hell, sweat like a pig, and your heartbeat sky-rockets, chances are good that you're doing HIIT. Let me know how it works for you

Also, I've got the impression from elsewhere that doing weights increases your muscle mass, but only decreases fat indirectly through affecting metabolism, which is marginal. And that cardiovascular exercise is the one that burns most of the fat. Is this true?

Well, muscle building indirectly affects your metabolism throughout the day (more than running exercises or the like) but this affect is indeed small when compared to the amount of calories a good HIIT training or cardiovascular exercise can give you.
However, muscles burn calories every day, so building muscle will directly help you burn calories and lose pounds albeit through a long-term effort.

Most people want to 'get in shape' rather than 'just lose weight' though, which is why I always recommend both. It also has numerous other health benefits.

[ivan_the_terrible]

Well that pretty much answers all the questions I have, thank you!

I'm itching to put this into practice, though I'll have to wait until I recover from this illness I have at the moment.

I'll surely let you know how it's going (once it gets going )

[ivan_the_terrible]

OK, I seem to have almost recovered now, and I just tried HIIT on a rowing machine yesterday, doing 1:30 slow rowing followed by 0:30 with maximum effort. I have to confess - I only lasted 12 minutes. I'll aim for 14 next time.


I did some weights as well, using dumbells. But it has occured to me that I don't have a 'routine' as such, so I may be missing out somewhat.
Do you think you could suggest a good routine for a beginner? (so that I get a full body exercise, instead of just arms and shoulders, which are the only places I'm feeling the workout, atm).

Thanks.

[Tankbuster]

Glad to know that the rowing does indeed work as HIIT, heh

You're starting out, so your body (especially your joints) needs time to adapt to the stress you'll be routineously putting on it. That means focusing on full-body exercises instead of isolation exercises. Full-body exercises should be part of your work-out routine even as an intermediate, but then they need to be supplemented with isolation exercises to give your muscles a real challenge. That's not quite the case for now so I'd start off pretty light. Do this routine three times a week (two times is good too):

Chest: 4 sets of pushups (push-ups), as many as you can do with 60s rest between sets (try doing the push-ups very slowly; I'm talking 3 seconds going down, 3 seconds going up)

Back: 3 sets of overhand pullups, as many reps as you can do with 60s between sets.

Legs: 3 sets of lunges, 6-12 reps per set with 60s between sets

Abs: Three sets hanging leg raises, as many as you can do with 60s rest between sets (if these are too hard: you can also do crunches)

Don't push yourself too fast, we want to give the body time to adapt to the exercise to avoid injury. After the above workout is too easy for you (it's often not more than two or three months), move on to another. Very gradually add weight or reps each week, don't start out on day 1 trying to imitate Arnold Schwarzenegger or your lifting career will be very short.
When you stop seeing improvement in terms of your strength or the number of reps you can do, its time to move up to the intermediate workout.

Also, don't neglect the cardio!

[ivan_the_terrible]

Thank you once again!

My arms are currently too weak to do more than a couple of pullups at a time, I'm afraid. So I might need to increase the number of sets?

The rest should be fine though.

Also, just to clarify, do I need to do more cardio than the HIIT stuff on the rowing machine or bike (and besides the warm up cardio, of course)? Or is the HIIT cardio enough on its own?

[Mímirswell]

Also with regard to HIIT, how long do I want to go for in order for it to have an effect, and not be a waste? 10, 15, 20 minutes? Until I can't carry on?

Tankbuster mostly addressed this but I'll add a bit. Minutes is a terrible methodology to use. You should be using intervals (it's High intensity interval training afterall). At 30/90, if you can do more than 12 intervals you either are not putting forth 100% effort or you are ready to move to 30/60. If you do move to 30/60, don't start off at 12 intervals, start off at 8 maximum (6 is probably better to ensure you do 100%). After that you can move to 20/40 or 30/30 pending how good you feel. I'd recommend 20/40 then 25/35 first but some people jump to 30/30 without issue. I did not.

I think I'll do the HIIT on the stationary bikes, since I quite like them and use them for warming up anyway. Could it also be done with a rowing machine? (since it lets you control the pace directly..)

Personally, I found the rowing machine very useful when I was doing lots of lower leg work. But the real key is to mix it up every few months because like every routine, your body will eventually adjust.

Also, I've got the impression from elsewhere that doing weights increases your muscle mass, but only decreases fat indirectly through affecting metabolism, which is marginal. And that cardiovascular exercise is the one that burns most of the fat. Is this true?

Doing weights will build muscle or burn fat pending your diet. You can burn fat and lose muscle IF you have a high % of fat, have great genetic potential, are on certain illicit substances or any combination of the above. Generally speaking though, at a caloric deficit, you will lose some fat and some muscle (with the ratio being determined by a large number of factors) and at a caloric surplus, you will build muscle and gain some fat (again the ratio being determined by mostly the same factors).

Because you are a newbie, you will likely be able to accomplish both factors initially; up to a year isn't abnormal. After that, it becomes more difficult but there is some new methodologies in training (called "culking") which tries to accomplish both even in trained athletes. It's got some big name backers in the nutrition/training world (Alan Aragon probably being primary amongst them) but you don't really need to worry about that right now.

My arms are currently too weak to do more than a couple of pullups at a time, I'm afraid. So I might need to increase the number of sets?

If you go to a gym, there is usually assisted pullup machines. If not (or your gym doesn't have it), several variations exist. One is to use elastic bands (fairly cheap) to create an ad hoc assisted pull up. Another is to use one of those stability boards (looks like half a stability ball) and use it to give you a bit of bounce as that's usually the sticking point when you start out. Either way, focus on negatives (slow decline) as that'll help you build the necessary strength. I really don't think doing like 10 sets of 1 pull up is useful but I've never tried it so I couldn't say for certain.

Also, just to clarify, do I need to do more cardio than the HIIT stuff on the rowing machine or bike (and besides the warm up cardio, of course)? Or is the HIIT cardio enough on its own?

It's plenty unless you want to drop a lot of fat fast. If you do go this route, you are very unlikely to build muscle and may even lose some (though you can still build strength as your CNS adapts to training).

[ivan_the_terrible]

Thank you for you input - everything's perfectly clear now! Except for this, so if you don't mind a follow up question:

It's plenty unless you want to drop a lot of fat fast. If you do go this route, you are very unlikely to build muscle and may even lose some (though you can still build strength as your CNS adapts to training).

This sounds like the thing I'm looking for. At the moment, building muscle is very much a secondary goal to losing fat for me. I might consider getting more into the muscle building later.

So what combination of HIIT and regular cardio would you recommend? I mean, for instance, 3 days a week of HIIT, and 3 days of just cardio for like an hour at a time? Any specific kind of cardio?

[Mímirswell]

First, diet. If you do not create a caloric deficit, you will not lose weight. The easiest and most effective way to do this is to reduce food intake and increase energy output. However, the latter causes a rise in hunger and for someone without decent self control can be self-defeating.

If your goal is to lose a lot of weight, continue to do HIIT and adjust your diet down. If you still find you have lots of energy after a month of this (unlikely), add a single day of moderate cardio (up to an hour). If after two weeks you still have energy, add a second day of moderate cardio. It is important to continue using weights during this period to slow the loss of muscle. This is not so important when you start but after 3-4 months, it's a must.

[Shaun]

If you suck a pullups (and I do so I have first hand experience with this) then doing lots of sets of few reps is the best way to build up your pull up strength, as long as you can actually do proper pull ups and not assisted ones with bands or a machine. Have a total rep goal and do as many sets as required to reach that goal. Once you get to that goal, try and do it in fewer sets.

For example, say you want to hit 50 pull ups in a session (this number may not be optimal for you but it's a good number for me, taking into account my routine, recovery, etc etc etc.) but you can only do 5 at a time. You'd aim for 10 sets of 5, but if you can only just get a set of 5 you won't manage 10 sets of 5 in one session (hence why it's a target). During your later sets you might only get 2-3 reps per set. So, you continue doing this until you can get all 10 sets of 5 reps and once you get that, you try and get the same amount of total reps using fewer sets but more reps per set. Eventually you'll get to the stage where you can do 5 sets of 10. This is a good tried and tested method for those that cannot do many pullups, but can atleast do a few. If you're not in that boat then the above won't mean much to you yet.

Slow, controlled negatives also help building strength. Try and do a slow controlled negative on your last rep of the last few sets. This will really test what you're made of, but it is worth it.

[ivan_the_terrible]

Thank you both for your time and input - it's most helpful!