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Thread: Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

  1. #1

    Icon5 Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

    How about the theocratic daoxue state in a province Sichuan?

    It is known that after defeat of the Yellow Turban Rebellion in III century, the part of rebels has settled Sichuan where has united with large daoxue sect existing in this province.
    In 214-215 years Cao Cao attacked this state and has subordinated this state. However the daoxue state has reserved an autonomy, and has been destroyed only in the XX century.

    This state can be analogue of papal states in vanila. Good relations with theocratic dooxue state and its protection can give a bonus of loyalty for the provinces having the daoxue population (for example). And bad relations with this state should cause religious revolts in such provinces

  2. #2

    Default Re: Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

    Are referring to the Daoist Celestial Masters ? AUH starts in Year 1180 AD so Three Kingdoms era history won't figure in it at all. Daoism (Quanzhen and Zhengyi schools) will be likely represented through guilds.

    Cheers.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

    Quote Originally Posted by Yelü Dashi View Post
    Are referring to the Daoist Celestial Masters ? AUH starts in Year 1180 AD so Three Kingdoms era history won't figure in it at all. Daoism (Quanzhen and Zhengyi schools) will be likely represented through guilds.

    Cheers.
    I speak about the state created by sect Udoumi-Dao led by Chzhan Lu. Of course, I know that the Three Kingdoms epoch does not concern AUH mod I only wished to write a little about an origin of this state when it has arisen. During an epoch of AUH it also existed and has been destroyed only in XX century as I and wrote above.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

    I don't what Udoumi-Dao is ? Are you sure don't mean the Celestial Masters ? Does Chzhan Lu = Zhang Lu ?

    As stated above, the Zhengyi School of Daoism claimed lineage to the Celestial Masters - and will be represented in AUH. They became one of the two leading schools of Daoism in China, along with Quanzhen in the North. Zhengyi Daoists became common in modern Jiangxi, Jiangsu, and Fujian areas.

    There was no 'theocratic state' in existence in 12th century, the last vestitages of the community of Celestial Masters had died out in the 5th century.
    Last edited by Yelü Dashi; September 04, 2009 at 03:46 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

    Quote Originally Posted by Yelü Dashi View Post
    Does Chzhan Lu = Zhang Lu ?
    Yes, I have incorrectly written his name as it is badly familiar with the English-Chinese transcription. Sorry
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhang_Lu
    I cannot speak about it for certain, but in one of sources I have met the information that the state of Zhang Lu has not been destroyed complete by Cao Cao.
    I think that you have more information
    Last edited by Alejandro Sanchez; September 04, 2009 at 03:56 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

    Maybe you're referring to Wudoumijiao created by Zhang Lu 张鲁的五斗米教
    Here's some Chinese reference:
    whatever, it is not important in the era of this mod, I suppose.

    张鲁政权是覆灭了,但巴蜀地区的五斗米道却未被消灭,而且反而随着张鲁及其部曲的北迁,又把五斗米道传播到中国北方。史载,张鲁投降后,曹操将他和家属带回北方,令居邺城,并封张鲁为镇南将军、阆中侯,邑五万,其五子也封侯,并让自己的子女与张鲁的子女互为婚配,结为姻亲。当时被迫北迁的当然不止张鲁一家,《三国志.张既传》载,张鲁降后,“太祖(曹操)拔汉中民数万户以实长安及三辅。”而且北迁汉中民不止一次,继曹操那次之后,杜袭留督汉中军事时,又“开导”汉中百姓“出徙洛、邺者八万余口。”张鲁及大批汉中教民被迫北迁到三辅地区(长安、洛阳、邺)之后,他们利用曹魏政权的宽待政策,在它实行限制、利用的宗教政策夹缝中,或明或暗地向社会下层和上层传播五斗米道。(呵呵,那本《黄书》估计就是那时五斗米教结交权贵的利器。)此后,五斗米道虽面临若干严重问题,但却继续向民间和上层社会发展,并从巴蜀的狭小范围传播到北方及江南广大地区。至东晋时,五斗米道取得了很大的发展。在许多豪门士族中有了信徒,出现了许多著名的世家,如琅邪王氏、孙氏,陈郡谢氏、殷氏,高平郗氏,会稽孔氏,义兴周氏,丹阳许氏、葛氏、陶氏,东海鲍氏等。连当时的大家王羲之也对之笃信不疑。《晋书.王羲之传》:“王氏世事张氏五斗米道,凝之弥笃。”。

    由此可见,张鲁政权覆亡后,五斗米道不仅没有灭亡,反而从巴蜀发展到北方、南方,成为全国性的大教派。其中在南北朝初年,世家大族出身的寇谦之和陆修静,分别在北方和南方对五斗米教进行整顿和改造,使之发展成南北两宗。隋统一后,南北两宗又合而为一。唐代中后期,张陵子孙在江西龙虎山续传五斗米教,逐渐形成传播中心,世称龙虎宗或天师道。再后来蒋介石又把张天师带到了台湾。呵呵,估计张鲁自己也没想到,他一手创建的五斗米教居然可以如此流传千古,直到今天仍是香火不断,也是异数

  7. #7

    Default Re: Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

    Quote Originally Posted by tengguan View Post
    张鲁政权是覆灭了,但巴蜀地区的五斗米道却未被消灭,而且反而随着张鲁及其部曲的北迁,又把五斗米道传播到中国北方。史载,张鲁投降后,曹操将他和家属带回北方,令居邺城,并封张鲁为镇南将军、阆中侯,邑五万,其五子也封侯,并让自己的子女与张鲁的子女互为婚配,结为姻亲。当时被迫北迁的当然不止张鲁一家,《三国志.张既传》载,张鲁降后,“太祖(曹操)拔汉中民数万户以实长安及三辅。”而且北迁汉中民不止一次,继曹操那次之后,杜袭留督汉中军事时,又“开导”汉中百姓“出徙洛、邺者八万余口。”张鲁及大批汉中教民被迫北迁到三辅地区(长安、洛阳、邺)之后,他们利用曹魏政权的宽待政策,在它实行限制、利用的宗教政策夹缝中,或明或暗地向社会下层和上层传播五斗米道。(呵呵,那本《黄书》估计就是那时五斗米教结交权贵的利器。)此后,五斗米道虽面临若干严重问题,但却继续向民间和上层社会发展,并从巴蜀的狭小范围传播到北方及江南广大地区。至东晋时,五斗米道取得了很大的发展。在许多豪门士族中有了信徒,出现了许多著名的世家,如琅邪王氏、孙氏,陈郡谢氏、殷氏,高平郗氏,会稽孔氏,义兴周氏,丹阳许氏、葛氏、陶氏,东海鲍氏等。连当时的大家王羲之也对之笃信不疑。《晋书.王羲之传》:“王氏世事张氏五斗米道,凝之弥笃。”。

    由此可见,张鲁政权覆亡后,五斗米道不仅没有灭亡,反而从巴蜀发展到北方、南方,成为全国性的大教派。其中在南北朝初年,世家大族出身的寇谦之和陆修静,分别在北方和南方对五斗米教进行整顿和改造,使之发展成南北两宗。隋统一后,南北两宗又合而为一。唐代中后期,张陵子孙在江西龙虎山续传五斗米教,逐渐形成传播中心,世称龙虎宗或天师道。再后来蒋介石又把张天师带到了台湾。呵呵,估计张鲁自己也没想到,他一手创建的五斗米教居然可以如此流传千古,直到今天仍是香火不断,也是异数
    Can someone translate this please

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

    It says: "Hello, this is my first post."

  9. #9

    Default Re: Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

    Quote Originally Posted by tengguan View Post
    Maybe you're referring to Wudoumijiao created by Zhang Lu 张鲁的五斗米教
    Yes, about it I also wrote

  10. #10

    Default Re: Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

    well, about Daoxue, I am Zhang Jiao's fan. And I have a few question. Have any Chinese friend know about it?

    I usually think Daoxue use whiskbroom, but when read about Zhang Jiao's 太平道, I read that Daoxue usually use one rod name " 九節杖", but I don't what is it? What it used to? Why it named 九節杖 ( nine steel rod) ?

    No any English document write about 九節杖, because I can't find anything.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

    what relation between 太平道 and song dynasty. 太平道 already destroyed while three kingdom time in china. daoxue 道学=Taoism. is create by 老子 Laozi.
    and 孔子, Confucius is the Founder of Confucianism.
    Last edited by kkchen88; October 10, 2009 at 09:21 PM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

    I don't ask about Taoism in Song dynasty, I know 太平道 had be destroyed in Han dynasty.


    I only ask what is 九節杖, and it use to????

  13. #13

    Default Re: Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

    Quote Originally Posted by yevon View Post
    I don't ask about Taoism in Song dynasty, I know 太平道 had be destroyed in Han dynasty.


    I only ask what is 九節杖, and it use to????

    i dont know,maybe u can baidu it or google it to check the info

  14. #14

    Default Re: Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

    yeah, but we don't understand Chinese, we can only read English.

    follow some history document, Even when had be destroyed, 太平道 still have very large effect to Daoxue in many centuries after. Yellow clothes, use amulet to cure the illness, 九節杖 ( nine steel rod?) Daoxue studied it all from Zhang Jiao.

    I understand all, exclude 九節杖. In many Chinese's film, I only see Daoxue use whiskbroom, I never see them use rod. What is 九節杖? What it use to? Why it have name is 九節杖 ( nine metal rod?)? It made by metal? It similar wizard's rod in Europa???

    Have anyone know about this 九節杖???

  15. #15

    Default Re: Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

    Nunchcus(not sure of the spelling), Bruce Lee's favorite weapon, is a 2 piece metal rod. The 九節杖 is a nine piece interconnected metal rod weapon.
    Riddle me this, riddle me that:
    Who was my first commander?
    How many of me are active right now?
    And who drank a Delacourt '27 when received the commandership of me?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

    you really think Daoxue usually use one thing like Lee use???

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    =


  17. #17
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    Default Re: Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

    Oh man, I love this BL pic. I look exactly like him. Except that I am not really fit, I have a "beerbauch", have short hair, slightly bald, don't look like a guy from Asia, and am taller.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

    Hahaha Space Voyager!

    But people c'mon, are we really comparing my Idol(no not Space Voyager, I mean Bruce Lee ) to Daoxue now?

  19. #19

    Default Re: Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

    I am not ask about Master Lee, I only ask about what is 九節杖, and what is Daoxue use it for? have anyone know about it ??? please

  20. #20

    Default Re: Theocratic Daoxue State in a province Sichuan

    OK, I double check, 九節杖 is not nine steel rod, which got me onto the previous post. It is hard to explain, best I could explain it as a long stick with 9 notches above the hand grasp position. And according to this line, 師持九節杖為符祝, from Wiki, the teacher (Zhang Jiao) use the 九節杖 to bless.

    And I believe that Daoxue, Taoism in English, is older then 太平道, which was a derivative from Taoism. The same for 张鲁的五斗米教, a derivative of Taoism. Even Confucianism was influenced by Taoism since Taoism is the oldest religion in China. Taoism is like Christianity, with multiple sects/branches/divides. But they were all based on the same original belief and sub divided through out time.
    Riddle me this, riddle me that:
    Who was my first commander?
    How many of me are active right now?
    And who drank a Delacourt '27 when received the commandership of me?

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