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Thread: Download Links for PDeR 1.0a

  1. #121

    Default Re: New Download Link for PDeR 1.0a - 30th August 2009

    Gigantus, would you release the GeoMod version for PDeR 1.0a as you have done for Broken Crescent? For some reason, when I try to use PDeR in GeoMod it hang up with errors. See the attached pics.
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    The PDeR version I am trying to open has had all of your three quickfixes but without any further modifications on my part.
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; March 31, 2014 at 05:10 PM.

  2. #122
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: New Download Link for PDeR 1.0a - 30th August 2009

    Debugged: invalid trading resources were removed from descr_regions. No further action is required
    Labels: those entries don't exist in one or more of these files: data\descr_names, text\names, needs synchronizing
    Unknown: most likely a trailing space or comma in that line (Geomod is a grammar Nazi )

    All these issues should be described in my manual.










  3. #123

    Default Re: New Download Link for PDeR 1.0a - 30th August 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    Debugged: invalid trading resources were removed from descr_regions. No further action is required
    Labels: those entries don't exist in one or more of these files: data\descr_names, text\names, needs synchronizing
    Unknown: most likely a trailing space or comma in that line (Geomod is a grammar Nazi )

    All these issues should be described in my manual.
    Thanks Kyojin-sama (Sir Giant). I'll see if those three things fixes it. I'm starting from scratch modding it after playing BC's Jizya submod. Some similar things done to PDeR with religious tolerance resulting in Jewish, Muslim, and Orthodox Christian communities would make the Levant very interesting. All of this applicable from the area of the Moors to the Roman empire (Byzantines). I'm most interested to see about replicating some things like this and seeing Jewish and Muslim migrations occur if the KOJ manages to happen again, or if Islam truly ends up retaking the Levant as time goes on.

    While this mod is very old, it had so many admirable qualities and is so easily modifiable. I wish I had kept my submod project. And one of the best things is your mod team didn't max out things, so there's some room for units, other kingdoms...one could easily have an emerging Crusaders States kingdom happen upon successfully taking several settlements in the Levant. I don't think anyone has done that. It would mean some major finagling with altering demeanor and transferring ownership to that new kingdom. Otherwise it's having eras in which it's a playable kingdom (a much simplier idea).

    Honestly because of the different ways it's coded with things like AoRs and events, maybe it could be a one of your Creating a World projects as a comprehensive tutorial of all of the kinds of things one can do with the MTW2 engine?
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; April 01, 2014 at 02:03 AM.

  4. #124
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: New Download Link for PDeR 1.0a - 30th August 2009

    This is the first full mod I have worked on, so allow me a sentimental tear...

    The mod was the first (or one of the first - not sure) to use the AoR principle and since then this is pretty much standard and I believe there are tutorials incorporating that principle. There is even a tutorial on how to create one individual AoR for each of 199 regions by using a coded sequence of (6?) hidden resources.

    A number of the coding efforts you mention have been picked up as well - like the 'governor in residence' event.
    By now the efforts of various M2 scripters have taken the coding to a level that sadly is all but neglected in the games following it.










  5. #125

    Default Re: New Download Link for PDeR 1.0a - 30th August 2009

    One of the things which I think should be modded is the event in which better architecture can progress to build better infrastructure. In history, the crusaders and their retainers noted the arch of Muslim architecture, and so a rexamination of this old idea that goes back to the Greek and Romans for supporting enormous weight. This and many other architectural ideas were then brought back and allowed diverse structures to be built like cathedrals with vaulted ceilings and better castles and walls.

    As such, it might be interesting if say a crusader had mathematicians and architects ancillaries (or something similar) noting these structures and then emulating them. So then it isn't specifically tied to a date range (keeping this intentionally unclear so as to not spoil the fun).

    Certainly many players are in a rush to have the best available units, but there are natural limits imposed in the mod, not only by money but time. There's something to be said for an appreciation of early medieval units and not dismissing their use while looking forward to better armor, defense in general, training, offensive ability, and range. However these changes were the result of proto-science (alchemy) and real science in engineering and through experimentation in the medieval period. As such, certain ancillaries or I prefer "traits-as-ancillaries" could result in "magisters" being around who were visionaries. One of these in early engineering, in agriculture, in chemistry, etc could result in units being available sooner. This idea really hasn't been done in a mod as far as I know, but rather has been turn based.

    These magisters by improving agriculture are what allow enough regular increases in crop production such that a settlement could support those professional soldiers. They are completely related. A kingdom cannot have professional soldiers when more serfs are needed to produce food. One cannot have the rise of specialists and then guilds unless magisters in agriculture come along.

    Even mundane things happened by the discovery of simple material being transformed into important ones. The amount of cow herds meant an increase of cow dung. This when mixed with clay yields waddle and thatch construction, a very strong material that allows different kinds of housing. Some of this leads to stout outside ovens for baking bread, as well as a crude but effective climate controlled building.


    The use of such materials like dung or peat meant that less firewood was used up. Less firewood used for mundane reasons meant those laborers were freed up to do other things and meant a surplus of wood. That means more trade from tools, furniture, wood for architecture, charcoal making to forge better fires, better weapons and armour, etc.

    Certain advances in advancing economic credits among the Templars and in other places should be seen as a technological change. It's something that could be learned or traded by yes/no events, scripted to happen in diverse kingdoms maybe as a balancing force, such that they now have an advantage that some other kingdom doesn't even if more wealthy.

    The wealthiest kingdoms who steamroll over the early weaker opponents have too much power and it unbalances the game. Which is fine for people who enjoy painting the settlements with their color, but isn't realistic in history. The wealthiest or best conquerors didn't always have the best technology.

    Early exposure in the Middle East led to certain texts that led to replication of combustable mixtures. I have mixed feelings about allowing all to have gunpowder weapons just because one kingdom found out they were possible. Scripting an early discovery by a weaker nation who had been in the Middle East might be done as a balancing force. That might be somehow traded with scripting as yes/no events, with an increase of money or other technology like architecture given to another kingdom. It could be mutually beneficial as a result.

    By increasing incomes in the settlement mechanics, and adjusting the traits for corruption to be much higher, then the AI could have a stronger cashflow situation. That regular balance in the treasury meant that a kingdom was more stable. Yes, if too high, then it could lead to corruption and excess luxuries by the King and nobles, but it could also lead to a new surplus to be invested in these magisters.

    "Sire, we have discovered a few exciting aspects in architecture from our time in the Levant. We'd like to experiment with building larger structures, but this will mean redeploying some of the stone from our quarries. Would you be willing to invest 3,000 florins towards this endeavor to see where it goes?

    A yes/no event.

    Then it may progress slightly, it may do nothing, it may greatly advance, etc.

    "Sire, we were successful. We'd like to increase the quarry output such that much more stone could be extracted, but this will mean better lifting devices, stronger transportation of the stone, and the training of many more masons to handle the increased output. Will you invest 5,000 toward the Mason Guild in order to see this happen?"

    Several of these new events could result in a more nuanced game, but only if there's more economic stability. That may mean working with those kingdoms who have learned economic technology or by spending money towards acquiring that within the kingdom's own banking system.

    Some of this could have adverse effects. An increase in goods produced results in more trade, but actually some trade items like weapons ended up in Saladin's hands. It will have unintended consequences to help one kingdom, but might harm Christendom. Or vice versa harm Islam.

    Some of these yes/no events could cause money to change hands, either be written as a series of bribes that had to be paid that found it's way through unofficial channels from English to French treasuries when actually there was diplomatic conflict going on. Or a change in demeanor could occur as a result of these exchanges that cannot be done otherwise in the regular diplomacy screen without outright bribery.

    Certain tournament events might happen in diverse places (upon the completion of a tournament building) that results in an invitation going out to French, HRE, Danish, Norweigians nobles while the costs of the tournament itself borne by the English. But though it seemed to be a losing proposition, actually money was made from the locals who saw it as entertainment, it allowed the English nobles a pressure relief from local banditry and border incursions within the English kingdom, and ended up paying for itself from the French, German, Danish, and Norweigians nobles spending money on English goods while there. Then an slight increase in demeanor recorded for those relationships too.
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; April 01, 2014 at 03:11 PM.

  6. #126
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: New Download Link for PDeR 1.0a - 30th August 2009

    If I recall correctly the reason behind the event that is required for certain building trees to progress was to prevent that factions with higher developed settlements would get even further ahead and simply dominate this way.

    At the time the yes\no event was relatively new as it is kingdoms specific and we hadn't experimented with it very much. (At the start of working on this mod I didn't even know how to make a functioning monitor).

    The ideas you describe has been used in various mods, utilizing the random counter one can simulate such a 'gamble' fairly easy.

    if answer = yes
    generate random number
    if number = preset number
    do something

    Balancing the finances and getting the AI to use his money 'sensibly' is still the holy grail of M2 modding, but advances have been made (diminishing returns, dynamic kings purse).










  7. #127

    Default Re: New Download Link for PDeR 1.0a - 30th August 2009

    From testing the settlement mechanics, it seems like setting the following resulted in a good amount of income and growth and intelligent increases to infrastructure. And this was with a 75% spend policy, so it requires a player who simply won't run over the AI but is growing along and making pragmatic decisions. I rather think it's boring to conquer everything by steamrolling. That's no challenge, but I also fight practically every battle all the way through unless the AI is ridiculously outnumbered. Even then I might fight using the timer so the AI named general doesn't die but has to surrender instead.
    Settlement Mechanics Income changes
    <factor name = "SIF_FARMS">
    <pip_modifier value = "2.0"/>
    <castle_modifier value = "1.0"/>
    <city_modifier value = "0.80"/>
    </factor>
    <factor name = "SIF_TAXES">
    <pip_modifier value = "2.0"/>
    <castle_modifier value = "1.0"/>
    <city_modifier value = "0.90"/>
    </factor>
    <factor name = "SIF_MINING">
    <pip_modifier value = "3.0"/>
    <castle_modifier value = "1.0"/>
    <city_modifier value = "1.0"/>
    </factor>
    <factor name = "SIF_TRADE">
    <pip_modifier value = "3.5"/>
    <castle_modifier value = "0.80"/>
    <city_modifier value = "1.0"/>
    </factor>
    <factor name = "SIF_BUILDINGS">
    <pip_modifier value = "1.0"/>
    </factor>
    <factor name = "SIF_ADMIN">
    <pip_modifier value = "1.0"/>
    </factor>
    <factor name = "SIF_WAGES">
    <pip_modifier value = "1.0"/>
    </factor>
    <factor name = "SIF_UPKEEP">
    <pip_modifier value = "0.25"/>
    <castle_modifier value = "1.0"/>
    <city_modifier value = "1.0"/>
    </factor>

    This results in gobs of money all around, but I adjusted the treasury limits in the EDCT file so as to minimize corruption.

    Doing this plus free upkeep in forts set to 10 results in very large armies over time, something I think most players want to happen. The AI has plenty of money, so if there are any money limiting scripts, as many money scripts are configured, then I also adjusted that.

    Money scripts alone do NOT seem to help the AI because the money is unanticipated. It suddenly comes in without being planned for. Adjusting the settlement mechanics means anticipated money and so the AI seems to plan for it better. With those kinds of settings plus setting the AI spending to 75% then there aren't bankrupt kingdoms.

    In history, kingdoms had to have a cash surplus or borrow from money lenders. Otherwise if there was crop failure, a plague, unexpected loss of trade income from blockades (blockades are often unexpected), losses of characters due to death with big losses in revenue from the instability, etc. So with these settings, right away there's a buffer.

    If the descr_strar is set for many kingdoms to begin with at least 10-15K of funds, then the King's purse need not be high. The AI seems to be good about better agriculture and roads and ports.

    Doing certain things like adding trade for all levels of brothels results in them getting built, but I usually fix it so anything higher than a tavern is also causing issues with named characters acquiring bad traits if they don't move that turn or do something. So these brothels affect trade as they well would. Truly a brothel, inn, or tavern isn't going to be for the nobility anyway, but for those other than the gentry. I add one for trade but subtract one for law. Other buildings add for law so it balances out. All urban centers had these three levels of buildings. They were normal.

    Regular injections of money scripts usually messes up the AI unless the other is also done. In that case, the AI seldom gets very low in the treasury, but should it overspend (hard to do) then the cash script covers it. So mostly the cash script need not do anything unless a real shortfall happens.

    Try using those values sometime and see what I mean. It seems to work well. With that level of expected income, the AI can plan, maintain, and the settlements are growing at a faster rate. The only thing to worry with is some squalor because of a bit faster than normal growth. The surplus allows the AI to build much larger maintained armies, and by transferring the units to the forts and away from the settlements themselves, then a central system of forts means that the army can be rapidly redeployed from the rural area to where they are needed.

    Having some free upkeep in settlements makes sense within reason. A decent sized city of 10-15K should be able to support a certain level of soldiers to act as security, but because the people are content, then the leader can easily set the taxes to high or even exorbitant. Success breeds success.

    It results in better battles as you are fighting against much stronger AI forces.

    If you do the trebuchet shot trick in the descr_walls so that they are being fired out, then players attacking are having a much more difficult time conquering new territory. A challenge is much more desirable that squashing the AI like a bug.

    What the AI is bad about doing though is redeploying its army to conquer in a forward manner, but not protecting its rear. So that constant push forward means a very vulnerable backside that another AI kingdom can easily exploit. To me, it's more fun to fight an intense battle at the front, then take advantage of the AI's foolishness.

    In Broken Crescent, with these settings, the Turks did much better and even had two fronts going on. One attacking the scripted weakened Romans (Byzantines) and one that was trying to deal with the Kingdom of Jerusalem clipping along.

    With these settlement mechanics settings, then that cash surplus results in an ability to deal with the garrison scripts that get generated from besieging. Then it's not such a big deal for them to eat that cost for upkeep since the upkeep is so low.
    Last edited by RubiconDecision; April 01, 2014 at 10:12 PM.

  8. #128

    Default Re: New Download Link for PDeR 1.0a - 30th August 2009

    The fixes links dont work, any way i can have them ?

  9. #129
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: New Download Link for PDeR 1.0a - 30th August 2009

    I managed to recover the torrent link as well as the first quick fix. I did not manage to get a copy of the last two fixes.










  10. #130
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: New Download Link for PDeR 1.0a - 30th August 2009

    Update

    I have updated the torrent with a single file installer that includes the 20091024 Quickfix and has been made Steam compatible. Simply run the small torrent file to download the installation files.
    The small torrent file is hosted here at TWC and should not get lost.










  11. #131
    Tighes_Hood's Avatar Libertus
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    Default Re: New Download Link for PDeR 1.0a - 30th August 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by Gigantus View Post
    Update

    I have updated the torrent with a single file installer that includes the 20091024 Quickfix and has been made Steam compatible. Simply run the small torrent file to download the installation files.
    The small torrent file is hosted here at TWC and should not get lost.
    Thanks mate I've been waiting to play this mod!

  12. #132
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    Default Re: New Download Link for PDeR 1.0a - 30th August 2009

    There seems to be a decent seeding now, so go ahead.










  13. #133
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    Default Re: New Download Link for PDeR 1.0a - 30th August 2009

    Hi, I got this message after installation:

  14. #134
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: New Download Link for PDeR 1.0a - 30th August 2009

    Did you try running it again?
    Was this the torrent download or a 'regular' download? If it was a regular download then try the torrent one.










  15. #135

    Default Re: New Download Link for PDeR 1.0a - 30th August 2009

    I would like to thank you Gigantus for uploading and making this awesome modification. I'm playing an Aragonese campaign right now and having a blast! Tried many others even more popular like SS6.4 and its submods (Titanium and SSHIP) and still doesn't feel so good like yours. Congratulations, sincerely.

  16. #136
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: New Download Link for PDeR 1.0a - 30th August 2009

    Much obliged, I'll share the praise with everyone else who worked on (or contributed to) this mod.










  17. #137

    Default Re: New Download Link for PDeR 1.0a - 30th August 2009

    The 2nd and 3rd Quickfixes are dead links.

  18. #138
    Gigantus's Avatar I am not special - I am a limited edition.
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    Default Re: New Download Link for PDeR 1.0a - 30th August 2009

    Note: I could not recover the fixes underneath
    Those were attachments that got lost - I left the info in case someone still had those files. Or felt the need to address the issue via the link to the thread\post.










  19. #139

    Default Re: New Download Link for PDeR 1.0a - 30th August 2009

    What a loss. Without those corrections, the building of those two units will cause CTDs. I guess without them, it's better to comment out the EDB so the affected units never get constructed.

  20. #140

    Default Re: New Download Link for PDeR 1.0a - 30th August 2009

    Quote Originally Posted by twyhein View Post
    Hi, I got this message after installation:
    I got the same error by the regular download. Now I am trying the torrent version. However the installation did create data so my question is if there is a way to uninstall the mod so I can reinstall it via torrent?

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