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Thread: Retraining

  1. #1

    Default Retraining

    From what I've seen units keep all their experience levels after retraining. Is it possible to have the original system, where retraining dilutes the units experience?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Retraining

    Are you playing on BI? I play ALX and when i retrain, depending on loses, they loose their experience. So this doesn't happen to me.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Retraining

    Quote Originally Posted by Cal20 View Post
    Are you playing on BI? I play ALX and when i retrain, depending on loses, they loose their experience. So this doesn't happen to me.
    I'm playing on ALX as well. Never tried on BI. I've retrained a dozen or so units in general campaigning and they've all kept their experience levels. I even experimented with a couple of units by giving exp level 9, putting them in a battle alone with Phyrrus' army, they lost 80% of their strength, I retrained them and back they came to exp level 9. I wonder what's going wrong?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Retraining

    always wondered what this option is for:

    UNIT_EXPERIENCE_UPGRADE_EFFECT:FALSE

    could it have something to do with your problem?


  5. #5

    Default Re: Retraining

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan 666 View Post
    always wondered what this option is for:

    UNIT_EXPERIENCE_UPGRADE_EFFECT:FALSE

    could it have something to do with your problem?
    Sadly, no. Just changed it, tried it, and back they came to exp level 9. Bugger. Any other ideas? The mod looks great [AI is radically better] but I'm not so keen on the idea that once you've got experience you can never lose it, no matter how many times you get smashed up. Everyone will end up running around with three gold chevrons.

  6. #6
    RedFox's Avatar When it's done.™
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    Default Re: Retraining

    This is something inherited with vanilla RTW. It has always been like this. You only loose experience when merging good and bad units.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Retraining

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFox View Post
    This is something inherited with vanilla RTW. It has always been like this. You only loose experience when merging good and bad units.
    That certainly hasn't been my experience, or Cal20's, or i would guess a lot of others. Whenever I've retrained in RTW and mods there has always been the risk of losing an experience point or two, depending on how many have to be added to the unit. [Though the system is quite generous. Retraining a 6 exp unit that has lost half its strength won't turn it into a 3 exp unit] It was that fragility and that rarity that makes high experience units so valuable, which was why it's so good, for both realism and in gaming terms.

    If this can't be fixed a partial solution [at least for me] might be to lower the unit stats for the better units but then give them higher exp levels when they're created.

  8. #8
    RedFox's Avatar When it's done.™
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    Default Re: Retraining

    Canterbury: Giving them higher exp levels while reducing stats might work for the campaign, but it will break custom battle balance. Overall the idea is logical, since elite troops are naturally the more experienced ones.

    A much better solution however would be to give ALL units created in the campaign full silver chevrons. That would only leave +3 experience to be gained in combat - which is, funnily enough, the same system as in M2TW.

    Honestly, there is no file that has been modified to make it work like it is. It has always been like this. I remember retraining units in vanilla RTW that had 3 men and 3 silver chevrons. Gave me 120 silver chevron men. Its rather silly, yeah.

    I can modify the UI files to change the coloring of chevrons, so when you gain those 3 extra, they will only appear as regular bronze chevrons. It will still mess up the chevrons in custom battles though.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Retraining

    I've experienced it both ways. Sometimes my units keep their experience, and sometimes they lose some or most of it. I notice that generals' bodyguards especially will lose experience after regaining men.

    Expand your borders, a mod based on XGM 5.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Retraining

    Yeah same with me, in my current campaign if i retrain they lose experience. But I have played games (mainly BI as I remember it) that when retrained the units experience stayed the same.

  11. #11
    RedFox's Avatar When it's done.™
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    Default Re: Retraining

    What do you guys think of the idea of reducing the effect the extra experience gives?

  12. #12

    Default Re: Retraining

    Quote Originally Posted by RedFox View Post
    Canterbury: Giving them higher exp levels while reducing stats might work for the campaign, but it will break custom battle balance. Overall the idea is logical, since elite troops are naturally the more experienced ones.

    A much better solution however would be to give ALL units created in the campaign full silver chevrons. That would only leave +3 experience to be gained in combat - which is, funnily enough, the same system as in M2TW.

    Honestly, there is no file that has been modified to make it work like it is. It has always been like this. I remember retraining units in vanilla RTW that had 3 men and 3 silver chevrons. Gave me 120 silver chevron men. Its rather silly, yeah.

    I can modify the UI files to change the coloring of chevrons, so when you gain those 3 extra, they will only appear as regular bronze chevrons. It will still mess up the chevrons in custom battles though.
    Oh well, if that's the way its working for me, that's the way its working. It certainly didn't used to. Experience was so valuable in vanilla RTW that I avoided retraining at all, and just amalgamated units of the same experience. As for a work around, your method is more direct, and whether i would actually get around to rebalancing the stats for the whole game I don't know. I've often thought though that the modders haven't really used the experience levels enough, particularly in relation to providing an antidote to blitzing. If, for example, each faction started a campaign with 20 or so exp level 6 units [regular forces] then for a while at least the big cheap, 0 exp armies of the blitzer would be far less effective.
    Last edited by Canterbury; August 26, 2009 at 09:35 PM.

  13. #13
    EyebrowsMulligan's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Retraining

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan 666 View Post
    always wondered what this option is for:

    UNIT_EXPERIENCE_UPGRADE_EFFECT:FALSE

    could it have something to do with your problem?
    Spartan, I'm pretty certain that this represents the FX 'sparkle' that appears on a unit that has just 'levelled up'. I don't believe it serves any other purpose.

  14. #14
    EyebrowsMulligan's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Retraining

    I have a theory on this whole 'diluting of experience when re-training'. I've run a couple of tests in regular XGM and it looks as though when units are retrained inside cities WITHOUT an experience-giving temple they keep their experience. If a +1 or +2 temple is present the experience is diluted. Try it yourselves and let me know your findings.

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