Page 1 of 24 1234567891011 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 467

Thread: Enough is enough - Discussion about Anti-Communism

  1. #1
    DrakKassleron's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Great Britain
    Posts
    598

    Default Enough is enough - Discussion about Anti-Communism

    I've been on these forums for a few months now, and I've noticed something. Apart from a few people like me, Squeakus Maximus, and some others, the majority of people on this forum seem to be anti-communist. I'm not saying that this is bad if they are anti-communist since it's just their own opinions, and I might be wrong about this, and if I am, I apologise to everyone. However, in the world, politicians still blame communism for the USSR, or use the acts of brutality committed by the USSR in the past as an excuse to flame communism and make out it is evil when it is Not. I'm just saying, it seems to me that a lot of people around the world blame communism for the problems of the world, when it is not true. And I am fed up with it, because I do not believe that it is right. I am no ordinary socialist, I am a hard-line communist that is completely against the US government under Bush, and I truly hate George Bush. Others should too. Why doesn't everyone in the world want to kill Bush? He is such a hateful, vile, despicable liar, and he has already decieved millions of people in America into voting for him. The U.N should be able to order China and Russia or some other reasonably honourable governments and a European "Coalition" of sorts to invade Washington D.C and capture Bush, who would just laugh at the UN if they told him to stand down and prepare to pay for committing war crimes. Unfortunately, they can't. This is against Bush and his evil administration only, not against America, just Bush's Government, because I think that he is destroying the true values of America, or at least spreading them in the wrong way, by conquering other countries unjustly. Also, how the hell can anyone defend the Iraq War when about 100,000 Iraqi Civilians were killed in the bombing, when it was an illegal and unjust war that made a lot of Iraqis very angry, because despite what the US Government says, not all Iraqis want "Freedom and Democracy". And please no one tell me that the Iraq War was just, thousands of iraqis perished in the bombing which the US Military obviously didn't care anything about, and the Bush Administration spread lies, all for the selfish purpose of gaining oil.

    I am not trying to do things wrong, I want to make the world a better place, but practically no one these days listens to socialists or communists any longer. Socialists and Communists around the world cannot bring to light secret agendas, since no large amount of people follow them..............how can communism or socialism become great again, in a good way that gives people equality and freedom?

    Thoughts?

  2. #2
    John I Tzimisces's Avatar Get born again.
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    New England, US
    Posts
    12,494

    Default

    Simple. Kill all humans, or remove their cerebellums. Communism simply doesn't work when you toss humans into the equation. Stalin + Lenin were that factor in the Russian Revolution, creating the USSR, which eventually poisoned every other so-called communist state on the planet.

    Why are you talking about bush? go rant about it somewhere else, seriously. You're off topic in the first post of your own thread.

  3. #3
    Indefinitely Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Long Island, NY, US
    Posts
    6,521

    Default

    Well i certainly am not anti-communism, definitely not anti-socialism. I find it interesting and in theory they can be very good, not as much always in reality. Communism usually just gets corrupted by greedy people. I think that it should be fine tuned on a much smaller level than say the Soviet Union, its a huge area and allows inevitable widespread corruption. If it could be proven sucessful on a small level, like a city and fine tuned to find a way to eliminate the problems as best as possible and then expanded. It cannot be implemented suddenly and be expected to sustain itself.

    I very much like how communism makes everyone equal, or intends to but i dont like the level of government control that really is inevitable. It would be nice if people could just not be greedy and cooperate with a system like communism in a way so that everyone could be helped. l

  4. #4

    Default

    Wow, i didnt make it though all of your posts, once I saw the hate this, and kill that, well if all hard line communists are like you i think you just explained why so many people hate communism.

    Plus it sacrifices one self for the good of all, but it never works that way. There is still that elite few who benefit the most
    Under the Patronage of Marshal Qin

  5. #5
    Semisalis
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Dominican Republic
    Posts
    445

    Default

    about the EU, Russia, and China invading D.C to capture Bush...........


    I read this the other day and I found this interesting http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperpower


    I know this doesn't have much to do whit your discussion on communism but I found it interesting

    and also this, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superpower,

    if you read the entire page in both links it makes you wonder on these possible future superpowers, especially Communist China

  6. #6
    DrakKassleron's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Great Britain
    Posts
    598

    Default

    eXc|Imperator:

    Simple. Kill all humans, or remove their cerebellums. Communism simply doesn't work when you toss humans into the equation. Stalin + Lenin were that factor in the Russian Revolution, creating the USSR, which eventually poisoned every other so-called communist state on the planet.
    No, it doesn't have to be like that. I have a new idea for a new brand of hard-line communism, but which still would allow a great deal of freedom. Communal Freedom, and even the rights to private property, but it would not be selfish, as the government would give all of these kinds of things, like computers and televisions out free to citizens. Law would be stricter, some freedoms removed and/or curtailed, others extended. It could work.

    Why are you talking about bush? go rant about it somewhere else, seriously. You're off topic in the first post of your own thread.
    I had no choice, because I hate Bush so much that if I even think about him I become so angry I have to go and write something about hacking his limbs off. *grin*

    Atheist Peace:

    Well i certainly am not anti-communism, definitely not anti-socialism. I find it interesting and in theory they can be very good, not as much always in reality. Communism usually just gets corrupted by greedy people. I think that it should be fine tuned on a much smaller level than say the Soviet Union, its a huge area and allows inevitable widespread corruption. If it could be proven sucessful on a small level, like a city and fine tuned to find a way to eliminate the problems as best as possible and then expanded. It cannot be implemented suddenly and be expected to sustain itself.
    That's brilliant. Are you from the US? I thought that no one in the US liked communism or socialism because of the cold war. Either way, those are great ideas. If it could be done in a city-state like way, then it would be a step forward for humanity.

    I very much like how communism makes everyone equal, or intends to but i dont like the level of government control that really is inevitable. It would be nice if people could just not be greedy and cooperate with a system like communism in a way so that everyone could be helped. l
    I know, but government control wouldn't feel oppressive if the people elected the government and the police were no more oppressive than they are in the west now. Also, yes it would be wonderful if everyone was cooperative and not greedy, if everyone on earth respected all other people on earth and worked together for the good of humanity. This, however, would only be achieveable after decades of a strong communist superpower dominating world politics in the 21st Century. Also, are you against capitalism? If you are, then IMO that's good, because I always thought there were no people in America who didn't like capitalism, since it's part of the United States, and it was founded on principles that were capitalistic.

    drugpimp:

    Wow, i didnt make it though all of your posts, once I saw the hate this, and kill that, well if all hard line communists are like you i think you just explained why so many people hate communism.
    Oh? And doesn't your government say: "Liberate This" Roughly translated as "Conquer This"? And as for the killing.....please, don't get me started on how many innocent people perished in the imperialistic wars of the US Government during the cold war. Especially Vietnam. And honestly, you claim that communism is all about violence, and yet your government is incredibly militaristic and completely disregarding of UN Law and International Law, caring only for its own interests. So, who is the morally superior one?

    Plus it sacrifices one self for the good of all, but it never works that way. There is still that elite few who benefit the most
    It wouldn't be like that if the leaders, the "Elite Few" as you put it, were honourable and gave the people just as much as the government.

  7. #7
    Indefinitely Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Long Island, NY, US
    Posts
    6,521

    Default

    Well im not necessarily against capitalism but i certainly detest some of the things that come of it. I really dont care about the cold war, it happened before i was born and it was just a petty little catfight between 'superpowers'

    You are surprised that i question capitalism and im in the us. I guess that is true for many americans but not me. I question everything, i mean literally, everything, even my own positions, and i do that often. I think it is good to question things as much as you can and not just accept things because people say so.

  8. #8
    DrakKassleron's Avatar Indefinitely Banned
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Great Britain
    Posts
    598

    Default

    barbarion horde:

    Very interesting. If the economy of the EU continues to grow......but still, the EU is an economic power only, without a military, while the US still has the strongest military on the planet. I would like europe to be stronger, since I'm european, but it doesn't seem immediately possible, at least not in a military way. But in an economic way........

    As for China surpassing the US eventually, I'm sure that it will, but it still won't be immediate.

  9. #9
    Manningham's Avatar Civitate
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Seoul, South Korea
    Posts
    346

    Default

    I'm definitely not anti-communism, but it has its inherent flaws. The most insurmountable being that people who do not derive a direct benefit from working harder are inclined to be less productive.

    I think communism, like just about every other governmental system accross the spectrum, works best on the small scale. Subsistence communes have operated successfully in the United States for a long time now, but if I'm not mistaken most consist of no more than a few hundred individuals. The problem is that when any system encompasses enough people, it has a hard time getting everyone to cooperate in the interest of the collective.

    Capitalism, though we view it as a sacred institution in the United States, has its inherent flaws as well. These can be seen in the vast gap of quality of life between the richest of the rich and the poorest of the poor in society - The currency spent on Paris Hilton's dinner could probably feed one of us regular folk for a week.

    A lot of Westerners like to bash Communism for the reason you proposed, that our mortal enemy of the Cold War adopted it, but also because its call for equality stands in stark contrast with the culture of amassing material wealth we've developed in countries like America.
    Last edited by Manningham; July 13, 2005 at 08:15 PM. Reason: Made a frivolous, partisan argument. Removed

  10. #10

    Default

    Umm, lots of anger there, so its tough to rationaly deal with you. Communism works on paper, but once you add humans to it, it falls apart. History has proven that it cant and wont work. Even the communist countries now, are rapidly moving to a capitalist society, and that in turn will bring about change. People will want to think for themselves and the old regime will fall, and the democracy will come to be.

    Everything about your theory requires human to altruistic to the extreme, which is great but it will never happen.

    And please dont start with who killed more people, communism will not come out looking pretty
    Under the Patronage of Marshal Qin

  11. #11
    Spiff's Avatar That's Ffips backwards
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    6,436

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DrakKassleron
    Oh? And doesn't your government say: "Liberate This" Roughly translated as "Conquer This"? And as for the killing.....please, don't get me started on how many innocent people perished in the imperialistic wars of the US Government during the cold war. Especially Vietnam. And honestly, you claim that communism is all about violence, and yet your government is incredibly militaristic and completely disregarding of UN Law and International Law, caring only for its own interests. So, who is the morally superior one?



    It wouldn't be like that if the leaders, the "Elite Few" as you put it, were honourable and gave the people just as much as the government.
    You dismiss arguments against your own idealogy by saying... america is just as bad

    what on earth are you talking about? You contradict yourself on nearly every point. You say you want to invade america to topple an 'evil' leader and hack his limbs off. I mean seriously your thread started off well but then you went all crazy saying 'kill Bush, i hate him' etc. How are people supposed to takes your views seriously when they are so extreme and short sighted?

    i'm not trying to offend you, but really...

  12. #12
    Manningham's Avatar Civitate
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Seoul, South Korea
    Posts
    346

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Atheist Peace
    You are surprised that i question capitalism and im in the us. I guess that is true for many americans but not me. I question everything, i mean literally, everything, even my own positions, and i do that often. I think it is good to question things as much as you can and not just accept things because people say so.
    Always happy to hear of people who challenge even their own opinions!

  13. #13

    Default

    For communism and capitalism, while many people have said their own things, I feel I should take a chance to add my own two cents, even if it encompenesses(sp?) what other's have said. Both capitalism, and communism, are great ideas, in theory. The problem is, the serious flaws in each become more apparent in the real world, as it's far from the ideal place.

    While I personally like some aspects of actually, socialism, giving people a safetynet. While not quite communism, I feel its ok so long as people continue to have incentive to work hard and be productive. What I personally don't like too much about communism is that whole equality factor. While it seems like a great idea, in theory, I do not want a lazy bum to be on par with a hard working citizen.

    To me, pure communism creates too much equality, while pure capitalism creates too much inequality. The reason why I can't really decide which policy I like best, and stick to it, is because I'm unsure where in the spectrum the line should be.


    - I'm not a pacifist, I'm a pansy.

  14. #14

    Default

    True, and in reality neither pure capitalism or communism exist. Even in our capitalistic USA, we have social security and various welfare programs. Its all a mater of which extreme you lean towards.
    Under the Patronage of Marshal Qin

  15. #15
    LegionnaireX's Avatar Protector Domesticus
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Posts
    4,467

    Default

    I had no choice, because I hate Bush so much that if I even think about him I become so angry I have to go and write something about hacking his limbs off. *grin*
    um... and why is it that we are supposed to embrace communism?

    Your views of America being evil and imperialistic, and about Bush being the anti-christ and wanting to control the world aren't only ridiculous and irrational, they're laughable. Sure many people do not agree with the war in Iraq. Sure many people do not like Bush. Some even go as far to say that he is stupid and an idiot, but none go as far to say that Bush is an evil dictator bent on world domination.

  16. #16
    Civis
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    110

    Default

    People will want to think for themselves and the old regime will fall, and the democracy will come to be.
    drugpimp, if you are saying "democracy will come to be..... like america has" then i beleive you are mistaken because america does not have a democracy, we have a republic, if you think about it.

    I am american, although i resent my pre-disposition towards the rest of the world. i am not particularly fond of my country, and, although it is un-patriotic, i beleive that the american people have been decieved by the bush administration through their lies to the public.

    just so you know atheistpeace, your not the only american to question capitalism *wink*

  17. #17
    Indefinitely Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Long Island, NY, US
    Posts
    6,521

    Default

    No i didnt think i was, i was just addressing the fact that Drak acted like i was.

  18. #18

    Default

    Ok, no offense, but because of communism, we had "charasmatic" people like Pol Pot and Mao Zhe Dong (don't forget Stalin) that would lead their countries to glory...

    Not to flame or anything. But, I don't agree with communism because working hard and using your talents won't get you anywhere. I know there are several people within socialist/communist societies that do get ahead, but on the whole, working your butt off doesn't do you much good. I admit, it can be like that in capitalism. However, the equality in communism is BS, not everyone is equal, why should people that slack and don't care, be equal with a hard working folk who slave away? It really makes no sense.

  19. #19
    Biarchus
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    Boca Raton, FL
    Posts
    663

    Default To all the anti-imperialists

    First off-
    "or some other reasonably honourable governments and a European "Coalition" of sorts to invade Washington D.C and capture Bush,"

    Dude, there is no such thing as an hounorable gov't, the Chinese leader is a dictator with even more crap coming out of his mouth and disdains of equal rigths and all politicians are bastard liars. Bush was a liar and so was Kerry, their politics thats what they do. There is no honor left.

    I like that Bush is taking a strong stand against terrorism and showing that America still has it's backbone and will use it and that if you mess with us and kill our people than your gonna die. We should fight, we did technically start it with our cold war aginat the USSR. Aside from that, I don't like him.

    "but practically no one these days listens to socialists or communists any longer."

    UH, yeah, there is no motivation to it, thats why it failed. If everyone is equal, no one can dream of a great life which is what democracy gives us, the chance to dream and change, communism can't change. Communism only got its start and became so great because Stalin was so brutal, if his killing motivation wasn't there communism would have fallen. You communists are just angry that you can't better your own life and your jealous that other have and can and you want the rest of us to come back down to your level

    "Communism usually just gets corrupted by greedy people"

    People are by nature greedy, and trying to make a perfect society is impossible because man is inherintly flawed. We can't just keep changing gov'ts, that doesn't work, we just come right back to where we were. You have to make due with what you got.

    There is no fun and life to communism, it's as boring. I'm sick of you perfect society dreamers, there is no perfection to life. GET USED TO IT AND STOP COMPLAINING. here's the lowdone on why I like America the way it is.

    Communist view
    "You must sacrifice your time and your self comrade for the greater good of your people by working as hard as you can for the exact same wage no matter what. You must coform to the same lifestyle as everyone else and never change. There are no luxuries you must live like everyone else does. You will have the same computer as everyone else and it will fit only your most basic of needs. You won't have to worry about health care or anything like that because the state will pay for everything (theat I like). However when our country calls upon you comrade, you must sacrfice yourself for it."

    American view
    "You can have whatever you want if are skilled enough to get there. You can live wherever you want and however you want and buy what ever you want and need. You can lead a middle class life and have a nice home with whatever computer you want and can marry a pretty and have a nice car and maybe get some great sex out of her and than go out for a good time at the pub and live life to its fullest, in short do what you like doing, not what everyone else wants you to do."

    hhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmm....................... jee... which life is more apealing?

    If you bastards are too much of cowards to go out and get the hot chicks and lead a fun and happy life, don't complain when somone else gets it and you want to change to world so that you can get them. Quite hiding behind the "I just want to mkae the world a better place" saying. Your just angry you can't get what you want and live in your parents basement. American life right now rules, why cause you can have fun at it and than help other people at the same time. Godd times are what matter most not changing the world.

  20. #20

    Default

    i can't be a communist hater because i was born in russia
    Manstein16 This is especially for you and your bill.

Page 1 of 24 1234567891011 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •