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Thread: Stand Alone Game...?

  1. #1
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    Default Stand Alone Game...?

    Why is this NOT an expansion pack to Empires?

    What is the point of abandoning a game with great potential but damaged by bugs, and starting developement of yet another new game in such a short period? Aren't you really just risking to repeat the same mistake??

    Also the mod community has yet to have any real support in offerings of tools. Empires would probably have been A LOT more popular now if CA would have given proper support for the modders.

    I'm not blaming the DEVs, but there is definitely something very wrong with the management they have over at CA. This isn't the natural structure of TW series. Usually a TW has atleast one expansion before they release another title. Which is a very good thing, because this gives them a lot of time to fix errors and add in more interesting features.

    I'm a bit shocked to see myself complaining here, because I was very confident that they would fix this in the same manner they have with previous games plagued with much bugs (notably Rome: Total War and esspecially Medieval: Total War 2) by giving atleast 1 or 2 years of real support with patches and tools for the modders.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Stand Alone Game...?

    Whats difference between it being an expansion or stand-alone?

  3. #3
    S-te-Fan's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Stand Alone Game...?

    Who told you they're going to abandon E:TW? Maybe they want to include features that require that require the game to be stand-alone?

    And what does it matter?

  4. #4
    Elyrioth's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Stand Alone Game...?

    At least two of the follow on to Dawn of War were Stand Alone. So it is not completely uncommon. It is only €32 as well on some sites
    Na Géanna Fiáine

  5. #5

    Default Re: Stand Alone Game...?

    Quote Originally Posted by hekk View Post
    Why is this NOT an expansion pack to Empires?

    What is the point of abandoning a game with great potential but damaged by bugs, and starting developement of yet another new game in such a short period? Aren't you really just risking to repeat the same mistake??

    Also the mod community has yet to have any real support in offerings of tools. Empires would probably have been A LOT more popular now if CA would have given proper support for the modders.

    I'm not blaming the DEVs, but there is definitely something very wrong with the management they have over at CA. This isn't the natural structure of TW series. Usually a TW has atleast one expansion before they release another title. Which is a very good thing, because this gives them a lot of time to fix errors and add in more interesting features.

    I'm a bit shocked to see myself complaining here, because I was very confident that they would fix this in the same manner they have with previous games plagued with much bugs (notably Rome: Total War and esspecially Medieval: Total War 2) by giving atleast 1 or 2 years of real support with patches and tools for the modders.
    economic reasons. etw didn't do as well as they predicted. so they're hoping that a higher than regular priced expansion will help fill the loss.

    they also didn't release the promised mod tools for this reason. they wanted to make sure no one created substantive new content to compete with this new title. i don't know exactly when they planned this, maybe from the very beginning, who knows? but it's likely a decision they made when their sales expectations weren't satisfied.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Stand Alone Game...?

    Quote Originally Posted by johncage View Post
    economic reasons. etw didn't do as well as they predicted. so they're hoping that a higher than regular priced expansion will help fill the loss.

    they also didn't release the promised mod tools for this reason. they wanted to make sure no one created substantive new content to compete with this new title. i don't know exactly when they planned this, maybe from the very beginning, who knows? but it's likely a decision they made when their sales expectations weren't satisfied.
    ther eis no evidence of this. However it is a good reason.

  7. #7
    Elyrioth's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: Stand Alone Game...?

    economic reasons. etw didn't do as well as they predicted.
    Could you site your source for this? Apparently the initial sales of ETW far exceeded any of their previous games in a similar time period.
    Na Géanna Fiáine

  8. #8

    Default Re: Stand Alone Game...?

    is very good that napoleon totalwar is a game and not a expansion,because is another epoch and this epoch have many new aspects,tactics,units,uniforms,historical events,factions etc.
    congratulations to CA for this.
    a thing very important CA the strategic map must be changed for another strategic map style.

    this strategic map is perfect.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 









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    Last edited by YD23; August 20, 2009 at 05:01 PM. Reason: spoiler added.

  9. #9
    GODzilla's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Stand Alone Game...?

    Quote Originally Posted by miniwally View Post
    Whats difference between it being an expansion or stand-alone?
    Simple:

    a) Expansion pack: We could demand features of an expansion pack to carry over into the original game, which would be absolutely reasonable. This of course is not an easy task, CA would have to input more time, money and effort for this to work.

    (On a side note: Kingdoms was an expansion pack for Medieval II Total War, still the features didn't cary over. The fanbase was quite pissed because of this, many people were complaining and so on. Eventually the community released a retrofit mod.)

    b) Standalone game: For a standalone game we cannot demand for features to carry over, for it is a STANDALONE game. This makes life much easier for CA of course, espacially as Empire is even harder to mod than Medieval II, which makes a retrofit mod even more unlikely.


    That's my theory why this game will be a standlone and not an expansion.
    GODzilla(TM)
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  10. #10

    Default Re: Stand Alone Game...?

    Well even if it was an expansion i doubt they would've carried over anyway.

  11. #11
    GODzilla's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Stand Alone Game...?

    Quote Originally Posted by miniwally View Post
    Well even if it was an expansion i doubt they would've carried over anyway.
    I know, just see the part about Kingdoms.

    It's just that this time, with the game even harder to mod, the demand for the features could be much stronger than with Medieval II, causing much more angry topics and quarrel all around the different forums. But with an expansion we don't even have the right to demand the features to cary over, so any discussion about such demands can be scotched right from the start.
    GODzilla(TM)
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  12. #12

    Default Re: Stand Alone Game...?

    so you're annoyed that you can't demand something you know won't happen?

  13. #13
    GODzilla's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Stand Alone Game...?

    Exactly. I guess. But I didn't said I'm annoyed. I'm just pointing at the facts...the imho-facts. ^^ *long pause* Well, okay you got me, I'm annoyed.

    I know that I have a very pessimistic view of CA and everything they do. Let's wait for the day they prove me wrong. Guess it's the day when hell freezes over...
    Last edited by GODzilla; August 20, 2009 at 05:35 PM.
    GODzilla(TM)
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Stand Alone Game...?

    Huh... NTW will be using the same engine as ETW. The warfare technologies were mostly the same, so the battlefield physics won't be vastly different (it's only the doctrines that changed [but WE are the ones setting the doctrines], and the size of armies due to conscription). Etc...

    This game could certainly have been shipped as an expansion - just like some mods were created by the community, were quite different from the original game in what they portrayed, yet used the same engine. As for ETW being hard to mod... it's hard for US to mod because no tools were ever released by CA, but it's muuuch easier for THEM to mod it (they even said it'd be the most moddable TW game ever).

    Having a standalone just allows to reap more money out of it. That's enough as an explanation.

  15. #15
    trance's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Re: Stand Alone Game...?

    I've had it with CA, I won't buy Napoleon. CA has become far too greedy for their own good, they're releasing unfinished games, think about it. ETW had been in the working for a long time. Napoleon however seems to just be a new ploy to earn more cash out of us customers. Napoleon Total War will surely be even worse. It seems like SEGA and CA is trying to become a new EA.

    This could have been partially done if CA put effort into making an expansion instead, ridding the bugs that dot the game and giving the modders decent tools but no they're taking the easy way out, trying to get a fresh start. First the DLC, now this.

    Feel free to fill their coffers, I however won't.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Stand Alone Game...?

    As long as it's not $60 (and it's not), I don't care if it's stand alone.

    Plus, it'll undoubtedly be much more stable and less buggy than ETW is currently. I'd say it's worth it.
    "Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity." -Seneca

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Stand Alone Game...?

    I hazard a guess that the reason for making it an expansion is to get rid of Steam. There is no practical prohibition from making NTW an expansion, and tying it in with the larger ETW system. But if you do that you're tied to Steam and still require people to use it. As a Stand-Alone you can still call yourself an honorific expansion to ETW without any of the baggage of being literally tied down to it.


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  18. #18

    Default Re: Stand Alone Game...?

    now, if they dont use steam for NTW, i may consider buying it,

  19. #19

    Default Re: Stand Alone Game...?

    Personally i like steam i don't have too many problems with it and it makes setting up online games much more easy
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  20. #20

    Default Re: Stand Alone Game...?

    i dont like that steam installs the patches for me. darn robots, they are taking our jobs!

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