B:TW -------Development Thread--------

[MADTAO]

Hello moders!

Lets get started with those tasks :

1. Create uniqe units changing all vanilla ones -

a) battle_model file must be shortened and less complex
b) position of textures mesh files will be repositioned for better performance


Workplan :
1) I have learned a lot in battle_models code and here is my proposal - There is way to decrase code is size for better moding. First lets name it "bm code" for shorten use.

2) "bm code" holds information about folder/file position from where M2TW engine take models, textures,sprites, animations to battles for every unit.

3) Most of unit models/textures holds in folder "unit_models" and more detailed folder position for every faction wich can be shortened by naming folders with single character! Like folder named "Tev" for Teutons , "Lit" for lithuania etc.

4) In faction folder lays unit meshes, body textures and attachment textures. All those features can be named drasticly short using clever "bm code".

First symbol of unit files represents faction the same way as the folders , just small. Like "tev" for Teutons, "lit" for Lithuania etc.


Then in file name comes free space _ wich is for models or body textures , but attachments in same place has + (it will give advance in coding ,becouse you always know that file containing + is attachments)

Then come soldier model short name , and texture file names wich represents :

unit mesh file name, comes short name of it : axem - axeman , arch - archer , inft - infanty , cavl - cavalry etc.

body texture file name, comes short name of it : mail - chainmail , hide - leather armor , body - cloth dress , etc.

attachments texture file name, comes short name of it : rond - round , plne - plane , kite - kite etc.

(normal maps has the same short name of actual texture just ading _n in the end of file.)

Number representing file era 1 - early , 2- mid , 3 - late, 4 - high.

After that in the end is model , armor and equipment type L - light , M - medium , H - heavy





As a result we have new short compact and easy understudable "bm code" for single spearman unit of Baltic rebel faction.


15 estonian_rebels
1 1
33 unit_mod/Bal/bal_sprm1L_lod0.mesh 9400
1
5 slave
31 unit_mod/Bal/bal_body1L.texture
33 unit_mod/Bal/bal_body1L_n.texture
32 unit_sprites/b1_lspr_sprite.spr
1
5 slave
31 unit_mod/Bal/bal+plne1L.texture
33 unit_mod/Bal/bal+plne1L_n.texture 0
1
4 None
10 MTW2_Spear 0
2
18 MTW2_Spear_primary
14 fs_test_shield 0
16 -0.090000004 0 0 -0.34999999 0.80000001 0.60000002



What we can read here ?
b1_lspr_lod0 baltic early _ light spearmen mesh file



b1_lbody.texture baltic early _ light cloth dress texture file



b1+lplne.texture baltic early attachments light plane shields


Can you imagine code for Teuton late era heavy infantry ? You see its easy !



bm_code explanation

-------------------------------------
FACTION

pol - Poland
tev - Teutons
lit - Lithuania
nov - Novgorod
mon - Mongols
den - Denmark
hre - HRE
nor - Norvegy
bal - Baltic

-------------------------------
TYPE

Archer - arch
Cavalry - cavl
Halberds - halb
Pike - pike
Spearman - sprm
Infantry - inft
Qrosbow - crbw
Gunmens - gunm
Artilery - artl
Extra - extr
Faction - fact

---------------------------------
ERA

Early - 1
Middle - 2
Late - 3
High - 4
---------------------------------
EQUIP

Light - L
Medium - M
Heavy - H



(This will be updated!)
--------------------------------------------------------------


Battle models line counting

unit_mod/Pol/ = 13

unit_mod/Pol/pol_qbow1L_lod0.mesh = 33 for unit models

unit_mod/Pol/pol_mail1L.texture = 31 for body color

unit_mod/Pol/pol_mail1L_n.texture = 33 for body normal map

unit_mod/Pol/pol+rond1L.texture = 31 for equipment color

unit_mod/Pol/pol+rond1L_n.texture = 33 for equipment normal map

[absinthia]

i agree that making a code template is a good idea. if strings get a predictable count it would make copy and paste easier, with less possibility of errors or having to re-count the string.
still i would prefer factins having three letter acronyms like; nor, nov, lit, teu, pol etc. for me that would seriously help the readability of the code.
also having a _ between equipment level and equipment type would help.
i think the model would not need a faction name, as it would be in the faction specific folder.
lastly, would it not make most sense to have the era in the middle? this way in the folder models would be sorted such that each level of a unit type from the same era would follow each other.
example:
unit_models/Nov/spr_1_L_lod0.mesh

[MADTAO]

still i would prefer factins having three letter acronyms like; nor, nov, lit, teu, pol etc. for me that would seriously help the readability of the code.

Ok i agree - three symbols for faction (i will redone all first post later as final agreement , but this still need discused ,if you will studie more you will notice that there is not so many factions to work with. )

i think the model would not need a faction name, as it would be in the faction specific folder.

Disagree - I know that if somhow you mix those files or folders result will be - owerwrite. (wery bad mess to lose different original units!) File must have faction prefix.

also having a _ between equipment level and equipment type would help.

On my works i notice that sign _ causes ctd .More _ ,more ctd. i would prefer two _ , like p1_hcav_lod0 . Try to se a two syblos as place and time like m3 , wich means - mongolia late era

After i know where and when is the task i know what kind of calass is unit. Noble ,heavy ,light ,veteran ? And only then unit type spear ,general, archers or mounted qrosbow. Its like zooming in ...

lastly, would it not make most sense to have the era in the middle? this way in the folder models would be sorted such that each level of a unit type from the same era would follow each other.
example:
unit_models/Nov/spr_1_L_lod0.mesh

Must think about it more... posibly your system is beter.

[absinthia]

Disagree - I know that if somhow you mix those files or folders result will be - owerwrite. (wery bad mess to lose different original units!) File must have faction prefix.

fair enough. i for one is certainly capable to make a huge mess of things like that.

After i know where and when is the task i know what kind of calass is unit. Noble ,heavy ,light ,veteran ? And only then unit type spear ,general, archers or mounted qrosbow. Its like zooming in ...

Must think about it more... posibly your system is beter.

hm, i mostly agree. the era should come before unit type.
the reason i think that unit type should come before unit level is that then all levels of a certain unit will be listed together in the folder, making them easier to find at once. if it is the other way around all heavy units will be grouped together, all light units together etc.
come to think of it i am not sure if that is a bad thing or not. if we are going to use same design of armor for each unit level, independent of unit type, then it would actually make more sense.
but if f.ex. medium spear, medium sword and medium bow units have radically different armor design, thus quite different body models. then it makes more sense to sort them by weapon type.

edit:
any way, it seem that we mostly agree on the whole set-up. and to me the readability of faction names is most important.
so what is next?
have you talked with EarendilElenthol about using his map? even though it stops in the north short of nidaros(trondheim) it is an excellent map, substancially larger than the teutonic map and with added territory(western norway and flanders).

[MADTAO]

Have you talked with EarendilElenthol about using his map? even though it stops in the north short of nidaros(trondheim) it is an excellent map, substancially larger than the teutonic map and with added territory(western norway and flanders).

I have spreaked with EarendilElenthol ,and i even have permision to use his map (just need latest version). But i am totaly noob in maping so i cant organize that stuff. Hope to find someone who can take this.

i think that unit type should come before unit level is that then all levels of a certain unit will be listed together in the folder, making them easier to find at once. if it is the other way around all heavy units will be grouped together, all light units together etc.

They will be listed by eras even if the number comes neht to faction frefix. I already test it , (if you enable option sort files by type )

first come model meshe files wich have in the name weapon type and they will be positrioned by eras.
then in the same folder comes body texture fileswich have armor type in the name.
in the bottom come attachment texture files wich is sorted by shield type in theyr name.

any way, it seem that we mostly agree on the whole set-up. and to me the readability of faction names is most important.
so what is next?

1. For start i will fix on this tread all faction folder names and recount lines.

2. Now im preparing ultra good quality unit body model and attachment texture layout. Also im creating extra nice unit for them, with lot of random spawning features.

3. I have nearly finished to make clear modelsdb tuned for our bc code. (will send you in closest time)

4. I think best way is to finish this mod platform... there is no point to leave existing platform ,for organizing units. If they will be prepared they can be added easy to any mod ,just by some steps.
That means we need to make good scandinavian factions anyway in exsisting Baltic Crusades DLV platform.

5. When i finish first unit it must be copied all around the bc code...in simple words owerwrite all units in the way that they will use same single model ans same textures. If that works there is no more vanilla units and from that moment there will be just upgraides and aading more units.

6. We need to make weapon galeries ,armor galeries ,helmets etc. (it means nonteuxterize /texturezed models, and photos for textures.To see what we have, and later just by one import from that file for unit creation. One of the intresting stuff is helmets , so start to geather all posible helmets (BC theatre) ,for instance pot helmets must be improoved ,and many many helmets must be maded.
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/1684/helmets111.jpg just need good models, i will texturize them in best looking.

[EarendilElenthol]

Perhaps we should join forces. I spoke with MADTAO about this idea, and I can work on the map, changing it and so on, while I can also edit things related to the EDB now (creating new building images is on my list to learn yet). You are quite experienced in scripting it seems, and can do a good job in other parts, and MADTAO is very good in everything related to units. If I can help this in any way, I'd be happy to.

I'd say to use three letter codes as well, with only one there can be more factions than letters (29 to 26) and you do not have to choose between poland and pskov for instance.
I'd use the type of a unit after the faction, because sometimes you use early units until deep in the late period. It would me more rational to sort on type and then use the era and then the light/medium/heavy

Then you get
nov-sword-1-light
nov-sword-1-medium
nov-sword-1-heavy
nov-sword-2-light
nov-sword-2-medium
nov-sword-2-heavy
nov-spear-1-light
and so on.

[MADTAO]

So can we all agree on this ? What do you think ?

unit_mod/Pol/ = 13

unit_mod/Pol/pol_qbow1L_lod0.mesh = 33 for unit models

unit_mod/Pol/pol_mail1L.texture = 31 for body color

unit_mod/Pol/pol_mail1L_n.texture = 33 for body normal map

unit_mod/Pol/pol+rond1L.texture = 31 for equipment color

unit_mod/Pol/pol+rond1L_n.texture = 33 for equipment normal map

[absinthia]

i can live with it.
even though crossbow should probably be "cbw" and i would prefer archers to be "arc", to avoid any possibility for mix up.
also i would prefer the level to be in capital letters. i noticed that my "after work eyes" confused by 1l, 1L is easier on the eyes.
but if you still prefer it the other way i can cope with that too.


edit:

Perhaps we should join forces. I spoke with MADTAO about this idea, and I can work on the map, changing it and so on, while I can also edit things related to the EDB now (creating new building images is on my list to learn yet). You are quite experienced in scripting it seems, and can do a good job in other parts, and MADTAO is very good in everything related to units. If I can help this in any way, I'd be happy to.

cool. would you and the rest of the team mind if the map was extended a bit north to Nidaros(Trondheim)?
it would not affect gameplay in any particular way for other than the norwegian faction. and no one but a norwegian would remark on it being left out. so it is not a big deal as such.
still Nidaros is the early norwegian capital and it is the location of norways major cathedral, Nidarosdomen. it probably existed while oslo or bjørgvin(bergen) were still a hole in the ground...

[MADTAO]

also i would prefer the level to be in capital letters. i noticed that my "after work eyes" confused by 1l, 1L is easier on the eyes.
but if you still prefer it the other way i can cope with that too.

Accepted!

even though crossbow should probably be "cbw" and i would prefer archers to be "arc", to avoid any possibility for mix up.

Weapon name goes only to model file and its must be 4 letters long like : archer -arch , then line is 33 long and number 33 give nice looking simbol wich means in bc code - all is ok
Unfortunatly some units then looks strange in short ,like cavalry - cavl. What do you think about it ? three or four letters in model name for unit type ? I look that we are close to agreement !


unit_mod/Pol/pol_qbw1L_lod0.mesh = 32 for unit models
unit_mod/Pol/pol_qbow1L_lod0.mesh = 33 for unit models

I have refreshed firt post rule list for bm code , take a look!

[absinthia]

What do you thuink about it ? three or four letters in model name for unit type ?

unit_mod/Pol/pol_qbw1L_lod0.mesh = 32 for unit models
unit_mod/Pol/pol_qbow1L_lod0.mesh = 33 for unit models

i think i would prefer 3 letters, but i am not even sure why. mostly it is the same to me.
what is more important is it to be either cbw or cbow, as it is written crossbow. and that archers are spelled totally differently, arch or arc.

but, yes i think we are agreed

[MADTAO]

Lets take four letters and done with it .
1. Somhow i feel that this one unneeded symbol will some way help when there will by numerious loads of unit models.
2. It will give symbol 33, wich is some kind of eye candy for code , and you will never miss it up with textures, becouse mesh record always goes top after unit name in bm code.
3. Here is link to modelsdb file from my latest tests on "Baltic Crusades" patched 1.1 and 1.2 (+DLVtk1.0/1.2)
http://rapidshare.com/files/26987960...o.modeldb.html

I have taken out all uneeded factions in list. (of course factions needed for hisytorical reality wil bee introduced ,but main goal is to run just most important ,but in briliant quality.After that we can take all load easy.)
This list is cleaned by giving most Kingdoms tw units to the slave faction. Hre have nearly all units from vanilla ,also as denmark ,norvegy .Novgorod and Mongols is coded in rusichi style. Teutons and polish units is coded in BC latest realise . Lithuania basic units is coded in new style bc code we talk about. Lets look at the difference .Comments are welcomed.Keep in mind that there is not used newest bm code.

[absinthia]

then 33 it is!
one question, what is the campaign start and end date?

[MADTAO]

one question, what is the campaign start and end date?

For riping apart BC1.2 on DLVtk base 1200 until default (i forgot the end date ,becouse only now early era is just half covered )

For Redoing Baltics map of EarendilElenthol ... dont know for now. Moders your voice ?

[EarendilElenthol]

My mod was designed fo after the mongol conquest, somewhere between 1290 and 1310 as starting date, ending date..... was thinking about 1500-1550 or something, can be earlier of course (Tannenberg 1410) (Prussian War 1466) (Union of Lublin 1569)

[MADTAO]

1290 thats soooo late. Anyway for me no problems. Just need make units thats all.
Btw i found bug in my prewieved bm code . unit model foder perhaps cant be renamed becouse its have strings from other files wich directs to this folder.Until we dont find where it is unit model file folder is uneditable . i will rework final bc code again.

[absinthia]

to be honest i have no particular knowledge about the baltic crusades or baltic history in general, so my suggestions are probably somewhat biased towards scandinavian factions(mostly sweden, even though we hate those guys).

1. as far as i understand(from wikipedia) the wendish crusade of 1147 was sort of a prelude to the northern crusades.
this is in the midle of the norwegian civil war era during the reign of Sigurd Munn (1136–1155), Inge Haraldsson (1136–1155) and Eystein Haraldsson (1142–1155).
also it is the start of the strugle between the house of Sverker and the house of Erik over the swedish crown.
the danes was involved in the wendish crusade it self.
the sweds conducted the first swedish "crusade" in 1150
not sure if any of this interesting history can be usefull in the campaign.

2. the official start of the baltic crusades was presumably in 1193.
this is at the height of the norwegian civil war, during the reign of king Sverre - chief of the Birkebeiners.
the swedish strugle also nears it climax during the reign of king Knut and the able jarl Birger Brosa.
the dansih probably drinking beer, eating sausages and having the time of their life...

3. by the reign of Valdemar Birgerson of sweden 1206 and the reign of Haakon Haakonson of norway in 1217 both countries had more or less settled down and ready to concentrate on foreign politics(conquest).
Birger jarl(father of king valdemar) campaigns in Finland during the second swedish crusade.

edit:

Btw i found bug in my prewieved bm code . unit model foder perhaps cant be renamed becouse its have strings from other files wich directs to this folder.Until we dont find where it is unit model file folder is uneditable . i will rework final bc code again.

not sure i understand, which strings?
i am quite sure all other files concerning units and battle models refer to bm. edb refers to edu, edu refers to bm.
i have re-done the folder hierarchy and names for several modfolders, no problem.

[MADTAO]

Ok about timscale we can speak later.

For now can you absinthia clean up EarendilElenthol campaign battlemodel file ? taken out posibly no needed factions and giving theyr units to the slaves.
Like here http://rapidshare.com/files/26987960...o.modeldb.html ( maybe copy/paste some parts ?)
becouse i understud that you code that stuff. It will be easer for you later .
Posibly you can make slave units come from one unit file in the start, this will cleanup seriously our record becouse you will see only your writen stuff , no more vanilla.

[EarendilElenthol]

The map can start earlier, but then you have a quite different faction setting and even less people living in large parts of the map.

Difference:
±1200 -> Kiev, GaliciaVolhynia, Polotsk, Novgorod as important centres, other (mongol destroyed) towns important
Lithuania less united if united at all
Estonian and Finnish faction needed, Latvian/Baltic faction needed
Poland divided in 4 warring factions
Sweden in 2 factions

Most of the factions and their units not yet existing and far less people living between the Elbe and Rus'ian (Kievan) land, nearly no towns with a even regional importance.

Thats one of the reasons I choose to start at least after the mongols. You can have a look at the dead mod Livonian Total War and see, it's very different.

[absinthia]

Ok about timscale we can speak later.

For now can you absinthia clean up EarendilElenthol campaign battlemodel file ? taken out posibly no needed factions and giving theyr units to the slaves.

becouse i understud that you code that stuff.

yes, eventually i can do that.
but first i would like to convert vanilla factions into what ever factions we could wish for. it is quicker to convert factions with notepad ++, rather than copy/paste to add them later. do not worry i convert the internal names propper, not the on-screen names only.
then i can start cleaning out the unit files, starting with EDB and descr_rebel_factions, then EDU and lastly BMDB removing all redundant units.

i plan to get the last batch of basic faction coding done on the baltic map tomorrow and sunday.

[MADTAO]

but first i would like to convert vanilla factions into what ever factions we could wish for.

Exelent! I would continue work my work on our personal rebel unit. Will send you my newest textures for inspiration.

Here is nice strat map models for cities and castles. It is compactable with nearly all mods. http://www.twcenter.net/forums/downl...o=file&id=2249