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Thread: Interesting article on Darwin and his legacy.

  1. #1
    Valiant Champion's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Interesting article on Darwin and his legacy.

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/2009112...08599194248300

    It wasnt written by a creationist so read all of it before coming to that conclusion.


    Q&A: Dennis Sewell on Charles Darwin's Dark Legacy
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    Delicious Digg Facebook Fark Newsvine Reddit StumbleUpon Technorati Twitter Yahoo! Bookmarks .Print ..By EBEN HARRELL Eben Harrell – Tue Nov 24, 11:50 am ET
    This year marks the 200th anniversary of the birth of Charles Darwin, and Nov. 24 marks the 150th anniversary of the publication of On the Origin of Species, the landmark work in which Darwin laid forth his theory of natural selection. While celebrations have emphasized the British naturalist's giant role in the advancement of human progress, British political journalist Dennis Sewell is not convinced. In a new book, The Political Gene: How Darwin's Ideas Changed Politics, he highlights how often - and how easily - Darwin's big idea has been harnessed for sinister political ends. According to Sewell, evolution is scientifically undeniable, but its contribution to human well-being is unclear.


    Should we reassess Darwin's legacy?
    Bicentennial celebrations have portrayed Darwin as a kindly old gentleman pottering around an English house and garden. What that misses is the way his ideas were abused in the 20th century and the way in which Darwin was wrong about certain key issues. He asserted that different races of mankind had traveled different distances along the evolutionary path - white Caucasians were at the top of the racial hierarchy, while black and brown people ranked below. [Racism] was a widespread prejudice in British society at the time, but he presented racial hierarchy as a matter of science. He also held that the poor were genetically second-rate - which inspired eugenics. (See a photo-essay on Darwin.)


    In your research, you found vestiges of this warped way of thinking in an unexpectedly modern setting: school shootings.
    Pekka-Eric Auvinen, a Finnish schoolboy who murdered eight people at his high school in November 2007, wrote on his blog that "stupid, weak-minded people are reproducing ... faster than the intelligent, strong-minded" ones. Auvinen thought through the philosophical implications of Darwin's work and came to the conclusion that human life is like every other type of animal life: it has no extraordinary value. The Columbine killers made similar arguments. One of the shooters, Eric Harris, wore a "Natural Selection" shirt on the day of the massacre. These are examples of how easily Darwin's writings can lead to very disturbed ways of thinking.


    You believe that Darwin should continue to be taught in schools. But how can we teach Darwin and also teach that humans are somehow exceptional in the natural world? Wasn't his great breakthrough to show that humans, like all animals, share a common origin?
    I think we have to decide what status we are going to give to the human race. Most of the world's religions hold that human life is sacred and special in some way. In teaching our common descent with animals, we also have to examine what is special about human beings, and why they deserve to be treated differently and granted certain rights.


    Are you concerned that your ideas will be trumpeted by the creationist movement?
    Science is a big enough interest group. It can look after itself. (Read "The Ever Evolving Theories of Darwin.")


    We understand now that eugenics was an illegitimate science, so why even worry about it today?
    The thinking behind eugenics is still present. Many senior geneticists point to a genetically engineered future. As the technology for this falls into place, there has also been an explosion of the field of evolutionary psychology that tries to describe every element of human behavior as genetically determined. What we will begin to see is scientists arguing for the use of genetics to breed out certain behavioral traits from humanity.


    Is it that you oppose artificial selection in principle, or that you feel scientists are still too far away from a full understanding of genetics to be making such decisions?
    Who is going to make the value judgment of what is human enhancement and what makes a human better? I don't feel comfortable with such judgments being left to scientists.


    All things considered, do you believe Darwin was a great luminary in the path of human progress?
    What has the theory of evolution done for the practical benefit of humanity? It's helped our understanding of ourselves, yet compared to, say, the discovery of penicillin or the invention of the World Wide Web, I wonder why Darwin occupies this position at the pinnacle of esteem. I can only imagine he has been put there by a vast public relations exercise.

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    Default Re: Interesting article on Darwin and his legacy.

    Humans are fairly unique in comparison to other living species. You don't need to religion to tell you that. In addition, humans can treat themselves differently from other animals simply out of principle.

    In addition, modern biology is largely (if not completely) based on evolution as we understand it.
    Last edited by The Don; November 25, 2009 at 10:47 AM.

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    Default Re: Interesting article on Darwin and his legacy.

    I think the writer of the article is the typical example of a wannabie philosopher making pseudo-philosophical statements about an area he doesn't understand. What Darwin did was that he managed to show a plausible model for the mechanisms underlying how species change. An incorrect understanding of this is Lysenkoism that seriously reduced the agricultural abilities of the Soviet Union (more authorative information here). Lysenkoism show significant similarities to Lamarckism that was a theory competing with the theory of evolution by the means of natural selection.

    Something we must remember is that Darwin was not working in a vacuum. He was able to make his theory of natural selection due to geologists discovering that earth is far older than believed during the 17th and early 18th century. Paleontologists where also at this time making spectacular discoveries of extinct creatures. All this ment that biologists had to deal with the realisation that the mixture of species currently populating earth wasn't the same as the mixture several million years before we were born.

    Darwin managed to provide a theoretical framework to explain this and thereby opened up for modern crop cultivation, modern genetics and bioinformatics.

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    Default Re: Interesting article on Darwin and his legacy.

    This is an awfully ill-informed article.

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    Tankbuster's Avatar Analogy Nazi
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    Default Re: Interesting article on Darwin and his legacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by The fool that wrote the article
    What has the theory of evolution done for the practical benefit of humanity? It's helped our understanding of ourselves, yet compared to, say, the discovery of penicillin or the invention of the World Wide Web, I wonder why Darwin occupies this position at the pinnacle of esteem. I can only imagine he has been put there by a vast public relations exercise.
    Well, geez, I don't know.
    Maybe because it offered a succesful framework for biology that has stood up to the scrutiny of the smartest people of the planet for 150 years and has been able to explain and predict innumerable biological phenomena as well as spawn various other sorts of disciplines like evolutionairy psychology?
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    Default Re: Interesting article on Darwin and his legacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Champion View Post
    All things considered, do you believe Darwin was a great luminary in the path of human progress?
    Yes.

    What has the theory of evolution done for the practical benefit of humanity? It's helped our understanding of ourselves, yet compared to, say, the discovery of penicillin or the invention of the World Wide Web, I wonder why Darwin occupies this position at the pinnacle of esteem.
    Genetics, perhaps? Almos all of modern biology is based on genetics, and genetics was only there in order to explain Darwin's theory. Of course we have known about descent with modification = evolution for thousands of years, but he was the first person to actually realise there was a scientific reason.
    A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.

    A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."

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    Default Re: Interesting article on Darwin and his legacy.

    Discover magazine had a much better written article on Darwin if you can get your hands on a copy.
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    Default Re: Interesting article on Darwin and his legacy.

    That article was awful.

    It just shows you don't have to be a creationist to be an idiot about Darwin.
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    Default Re: Interesting article on Darwin and his legacy.

    Where do creationists keep pulling the argument that Darwin was a racist? This article goes one step further and says Darwin presented racism as science, the ignorance.

    And why do so many people think Darwin had anything to do with social Darwinism? I've seen so many idiots talking about how Darwin invented social Darwinism

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    Default Re: Interesting article on Darwin and his legacy.

    What an utterly-ill informed article. It's pretty much wrong on every single point, and a perfect example of why science shouldn't be driven by political thought.
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Interesting article on Darwin and his legacy.

    If Darwin wasn't a figure of great accomplishment, what scientist is?

    And again, unless you are either delusional or dishonest, you have to concede that modern biology is largely based on evolution as we understand it. So, if you are asking what "practical benefit" evolution has provided for man, you might as well ask what modern biology and things that at least somewhat rely on it (such as the medical industry) have provided for man.
    Last edited by The Don; December 04, 2009 at 09:15 PM.

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    Default Re: Interesting article on Darwin and his legacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erlinggra View Post
    Where do creationists keep pulling the argument that Darwin was a racist? This article goes one step further and says Darwin presented racism as science, the ignorance.

    And why do so many people think Darwin had anything to do with social Darwinism? I've seen so many idiots talking about how Darwin invented social Darwinism
    The movie "der untergang" seemed to echoe back to some of Darwin's arguments. Hitler was obsessed with eugenics and racial superiority. Darwin himself may not have been a racists but those who took his research for face value oftentimes were.

    This is why it can be said with certianty that Darwin's theories (not Darwin himself) led to the annihilation of 6 million jews and the deaths of tens of millions of mankind during the second world war.

    Darwin created a gollem which took a life of its own and got twisted and grew out of proportion by assimilating the ideologies of divers people who attached their own belief systems to it creating a beast composed of bits and pieces. Darwin never intended it to reach that level of a monstrousity. He merely wanted to come up with an idea to undermine Christianity in some way or another due to a long pent up rage over some vendetta against God for tragedy in his life.
    Last edited by Valiant Champion; December 05, 2009 at 08:35 AM.

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    Default Re: Interesting article on Darwin and his legacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Champion View Post
    The movie "der untergang" seemed to echoe back to some of Darwin's arguments. Hitler was obsessed with eugenics and racial superiority. Darwin himself may not have been a racists but those who took his research for face value oftentimes were.

    This is why it can be said with certianty that Darwin's theories (not Darwin himself) led to the annihilation of 6 million jews and the deaths of tens of millions of mankind during the second world war.

    Darwin created a gollem which took a life of its own and got twisted and grew out of proportion by assimilating the ideologies of divers people who attached their own belief systems to it creating a beast composed of bits and pieces. Darwin never intended it to reach that level of a monstrousity. He merely wanted to come up with an idea to undermine Christianity in some way or another due to a long pent up rage over some vendetta against God for tragedy in his life.
    Wow. Just... wow.

    Just out of curiosity, are you Protestant?

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    Valiant Champion's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: Interesting article on Darwin and his legacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by GuineaPig View Post
    Wow. Just... wow.

    Just out of curiosity, are you Protestant?
    thanks!!

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    Default Re: Interesting article on Darwin and his legacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiant Champion View Post
    Darwin created a gollem which took a life of its own and got twisted and grew out of proportion by assimilating the ideologies of divers people who attached their own belief systems to it creating a beast composed of bits and pieces. Darwin never intended it to reach that level of a monstrousity. He merely wanted to come up with an idea to undermine Christianity in some way or another due to a long pent up rage over some vendetta against God for tragedy in his life.
    Have you even read "On the origins of species by the means of natural selection"? There is no part of it that in anyway contradict the idea that god created the universe. It is however relying on evidence found by geologists that the earth was more than 6000 years old. It should also be mentioned that Darwin himself waited 20 years before publishing his ideas due to the fact that he knew it would cause serious controversy and only published due to another biologist having the same ideas.

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    Default Re: Interesting article on Darwin and his legacy.

    He merely wanted to come up with an idea to undermine Christianity in some way or another due to a long pent up rage over some vendetta against God for tragedy in his life.
    What utterly ill-informed nonsense.
    The movie "der untergang" seemed to echoe back to some of Darwin's arguments. Hitler was obsessed with eugenics and racial superiority. Darwin himself may not have been a racists but those who took his research for face value oftentimes were.
    Hitler built on a long tradition of Christian anti-semitism in Germany. Martin Luther, the leading light of the Reformation and an influential German figure, was himself a terrible anti-semite.
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    Default Re: Interesting article on Darwin and his legacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by KingOfTheIsles View Post

    Martin Luther, the leading light of the Reformation and an influential German figure, was himself a terrible anti-semite.
    This is what I was alluding to. It's not like the Nazis were handing out textbooks on evolution at their rallies; they were handing out The Jews and Their Lies.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Interesting article on Darwin and his legacy.

    I blame Martin Luther for the Nazis.

    (I kid, I kid. Martin was a lovable Jew hating scamp)

    Anyway, I'm pretty sure that Darwin's writings actually weren't all that accepted in Nazi Germany. I recall his writings being blacklisted.

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