Were the first humans black or white?
Were the first humans black or white?
I don't know of any studies done on early human DNA to determine race, or if we even know what markers to look for in early humans, but based on climate it would be shocking if they were anything but dark brown aka black.
"When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."
My shameful truth.
Last edited by My Favorite Martian; August 20, 2009 at 12:20 AM.
caveant consules ne quid detrimenti capiat res publia
la moisson du peuple grandisse
moisson d'amour et de justice
au Soleil de la liberté!
Black power!
Weren't they still very ape like in appearance?
Or are we talking early man?
Reffering to them as Black or White is damn silly though, oh society what have you done?
I honestly don't know why people are so obsessed with the topic
(Not referring to you )
Well the first humans would look human being they were human. I'm sure there would be some different facial features much like we have between races today, after all at this point they are the only race and still have a couple of 100k years to diversify, but they would be unmistakably human.
"When I die, I want to die peacefully in my sleep, like Fidel Castro, not screaming in terror, like his victims."
My shameful truth.
Black...
The first humans lived in Africa and were presumably black, insofar as they fit into any modern racial category.
Given that there's a theory that civilisation started in East Africa, why did it start there? Why not somewhere else?
We know that both humans and chimpanzees can have a variety of skin colours, this mean that our ancestors most likely also carried the same properties. This mean that the ability to have light or dark skin have been present even before Homo Sapiens started to wander the earth. This also mean that the environment was the deciding factor of skin colour. Bushmen are living in an environment similar to what we think the earliest humans were living in.
Some chimpanzee pics showing their variance in skin colour
Edit: I found a better pictures of the bald chimpanzee. source
A not too wild guess is that our skin colour became increasingly dark as we lost our bodyhair and later had the reverse happen when we put on clothes and entered a colder climate.
Last edited by Adar; August 19, 2009 at 02:28 PM.
I had a professor say that the 'black' race emerged in west Africa a few thousand years ago. If we are talking about the original humans millions of years ago who is to say that there was not some diversity over time. I would think the first humans had a darker hue but black per say maybe not.
I saw somewhere that the first Humans were Black or that of a similar colour, or of dark complextion.
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I would say they were mostly black. There are different races of chimpanzees Adar, maybe that has something to do with their different skin colours? Different chimpanzee populations can have huge genetic variation, chimpanzees in the north of the congo have more genetic variation with those in the south of the congo than any 2 humans, even one Ethiopean and one Scottish.
A new mobile phone tower went up in a town in the USA, and the local newspaper asked a number of people what they thought of it. Some said they noticed their cellphone reception was better. Some said they noticed the tower was affecting their health.
A local administrator was asked to comment. He nodded sagely, and said simply: "Wow. And think about how much more pronounced these effects will be once the tower is actually operational."
That doesn't follow at all. We're genetically quite different from our ancestors. In this case, human skin pigmentation follows climate very closely. The indigenous peoples of hot equatorial climates have dark skin, while inhabitants of cold northern regions have light skin. The prevalent theory is that regions with more sunlight promote darker skin to reduce the harmful effects of UV radiation, while regions with less sunlight promote lighter skin to allow synthesis of vitamin D. These effects are very strong, so that the skin color of human populations is very reliably linked to climate. You can read the Wikipedia article for more info, including citations of the original research establishing the correlations.
Based on that, it's likely that our earliest ancestors had black skin, since they lived in Africa. Chimpanzees have fur, so the pressure toward dark skin doesn't apply to them, or only much less. The fur presumably stops most of the UV from getting to their skin anyway.
Yes, this seems to be the prevalent hypothesis AFAICT.
The concept of "the black race" really isn't well-defined. We can talk about skin color, though. Early humans likely had dark skin. I have no idea whether they had other racial characteristics that we would today associate with black people; I don't see why they would.
The estimates I've seen mostly place the origin of the human species at less than a million years ago.
I don't think you considered/understood the underlying genetics when writing your reply. Both chimpanzees and humans exhibit a great variance in skin colour. There are two possibilities here; the feature evolved separately (highly unlikely). Or our last common ancestor had a complex system for skin colour similar to the one human and the chimpanzees have. This property is exactly what have caused human pigmentation to follow the climate so closely. We are never more than a few mutations away from becoming darker/lighter.
Also, the wikipedia article support my theory. The article clearly state that the last ancestor we share with chimpanzees seem to have the same colouring properties as chimpanzees (" Jablonski and Chaplin note that there is no empirical evidence to suggest that the hominid ancestors six million years ago had a skin tone different from the skin tone of today's chimpanzees—namely light-skinned under black hair*."). Natural selection in favour of the darker skin tones then turned the pre humans toward a darker complexion, just like the wikipedia article state "But as humans evolved to lose their body hair a parallel evolution permitted human populations to turn their base skin tone dark or light to adjust to the competing demands of 1) increasing eumelanin to protect from UV that was too intense and 2) reducing eumelanin so that enough UV would penetrate to synthesize enough vitamin D. By this explanation, prior to Homo sapiens colonization of extra-African territories, humans had dark skin given that they lived for extended periods of time where the sunlight is intense. As some humans migrated north, over time they developed light skin".
I really don't understand what you consider yourself to be refuting in your post. Your 2nd paragraph is "Based on that, it's likely that our earliest ancestors had black skin, since they lived in Africa. Chimpanzees have fur, so the pressure toward dark skin doesn't apply to them, or only much less. The fur presumably stops most of the UV from getting to their skin anyway."
In my post I state "This also mean that the environment was the deciding factor of skin colour. Bushmen are living in an environment similar to what we think the earliest humans were living in." And the final statement of my post is "A not too wild guess is that our skin colour became increasingly dark as we lost our bodyhair and later had the reverse happen when we put on clothes and entered a colder climate."
This mean that our conclusions are in perfect agreement as long as you agree that Bushmen have dark skin.
*Which is an oversimplified statement. Many chimpanzee exhibits darker skin tones than we normally call "light skinned", just like we can see on my chimpanzee pictures.
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
There are a number of genes that affect skin color. You could call this a "complex system", I suppose. It's not a dedicated system, though, it's just plain old meiosis. I'm not sure what your point is here.
The quotation doesn't make it clear when the mutations actually occurred. If they did actually occur after the departure from Africa, then in fact our skin color variation has absolutely nothing to do with chimpanzees', and they are separate mechanisms. That's what your quotation implies. If they occurred while we were still in Africa, or before, then it's as I said.
I don't think this implication holds. Just because humans and chimpanzees have a characteristic in common doesn't mean that our last common ancestor had the same trait. Our last common ancestor was millions of years ago, plenty of time for convergent evolution on minor things like skin color. (Although I haven't seen anyone mention evidence that chimpanzees' skin color is regulated at all similarly to humans'.)
I also don't think the premise holds, or at least it's not worded well. We don't have a "complex system of deciding skin color", we have a complex system that decides our traits generally, namely genetics. One particular thing that's decided by our genetics is skin color.
That's imprecisely worded, at best. Human skin color is decided mainly by genetics, not environment. However, selection pressure will cause human populations to shift genetically depending on their environment, at a pretty rapid pace. If you said "Modern human skin color is determined by genes whose distribution is strongly influenced by the environment of one's immediate ancestors", or something like that, I'd agree.
I don't have a problem with this part.
Why do you believe this? And what do you mean by "a system deciding colour"?
Yes, I agree with this.
The reason I've heard cited is because they eat fish and so get their vitamin D from other sources. That's what the Wikipedia article says, citing a study. (As I say, this is all way outside my specialty, so I can't do much better than Wikipedia.) What's your source for this? It doesn't sound that implausible to me, except that people would surely tend to bundle up very heavily when there's lots of snow on the ground, so I'd think any extra UV intake would be pretty much negated.
The quotation doesn't make it clear when the mutations actually occurred. If they did actually occur after the departure from Africa, then in fact our skin color variation has absolutely nothing to do with chimpanzees', and they are separate mechanisms. That's what your quotation implies. If they occurred while we were still in Africa, or before, then it's as I said. [/QUOTE]
We need to use a vague wording, attributing it to "a number of genes" would fail to take into consideration epigenetics. Meisos is not the system deciding it. Meiosis is the creation of sperms and eggs, it decides what genes we are going to get but it does not tell us how genes actually function. In this case we are talking about how the genes work, not where they came from.
They most likely occured somewhere around the time we left Africa. It's a too significant disadvantage to allow light skinned humans to start dominating a population in Africa. I think the problem is that you have difficulties accepting finer points of inheritance of genes.
The dark skinned early humans were a bottleneck regarding genetic variation in the genes deciding skin colour. Our LCA would have a genetic variation causing some LCAs to be lighter than others (just like on humans and chimps have on a specie level). The pre humans got a strong natural selection toward a darker complexion, reducing variation to levels similar to the ones we currently see among east africans. Humans leaving africa found themselves in an environment without this pressure, thereby allowing genetic variation to increase due to mutations.
A few million years is not enough for convergent evolution on "a minor thing". Your also confusing a simple phenotype (skin colour) complex underlying causes. Humans and Chimpanzees are very genetically similar, having a completely different regulatory system for skin colour would be huge. I can only show you evidence that we both have the MC1R gene. But otherwise I suggest you learn about it through the same way as I have. Do a genetics course at university, they often use moderl organisms to understand things. They also very often mention similarities to humans.
Now your just wasting time arguing sematics. You obviously understood the purpose of the sentence (except that your way writing it rules out epigenetics which might also have an influence) but your way of writing it is far longer. Needlessly expanding something that is intended to be short is not a good idea.
Especially considering that I further down the page give an extended explanation "The overwhelming skin colour of a population can be changed in a "few" generations due to environmental factors. Therefore we can guess that the skin colour of the first Homo sapiens was the colour we currently see among people living in a similar environment."
Becuase evolution rarely do the same thing twice on a genetic level. Phenotypes might very often be created by convergent evolution but genotypes are not. Chimpanzees and humans are highly similar on the genetic level. Almost all genes carried by humans have a chimpanzee ortholog and vice versa.
"A system deciding colour" is a vague wording to take into account all inheritory and environmental factors that give an individual his or her skin colour. Specifically listing out all factors is currently impossible due to our limited knowledge.