Curia Hostilia: Consulate of Marcellinus/Falco

[Crozimodo]

Have we missed any of the surrounding areas with whom we could trade with.

I would request sending our diplomstd to the south and west not just the north and east.

This world is vast and what have we to lose by attempting to find new allies?

It will go someway to impoving the economy and would strengthen foreign realtionships.

[Ozy]

We already trade with the Numidians and the cities of North Africa. We could give it a try with the Iberians on the West, or go further to the East, to Pontus or the Seleucid Empire.

[Ace_General]

Consul Tiberius Falco, the wise old grizzled general walks into the curia and begins speaking

Romans, now we have some fiscal problems, but these are not as big a crisis as Senator Cicero will lead you to believe

Now I do agree we should raise taxes and build some improvements, but we should not go overboard and spend ourselves into the ground. Now we should build mines as that gives us the best returns, and we should also makes some farms and trade faculties, but also we should not forget the provinces.

[Imperial Eagle]

Consul Falco makes an excellent point. Why would overspending help our economic problems?

[Ace_General]

Falco stands up and begins speaking

Now, we have many good legions sitting around getting fat and belligerent. This is a recipe for a civil war and must be remedied

Now, on the other hand, the kingdom of Pontus's cities are rich, and their armies and king is weak, we as romans should take what we need

Now men will speak of wars being expensive and not for the good of the republic, but these men are weak of stomach and cannot do what needs to be done for the glory of rome

Now, some of your men are right, that starting a war is moderately expensive, but isn't paying our legions to sit around expensive too. Now, in the short and long run the loot obtained from the conquest of Pontus will greatly offset the costs. In the short term by the loot obtained, and in the long term by the tax and trade receipts that will be coming to rome.

Also, I have a list of military reforms to pursue to bring more unity of action and command and preparedness of the roman military in general

[Raglan]

What are we, Barbarians to sack others for money? Our legions sit around doing nothing? They guard our borders from those that do sack for money. They are the ones involved in building the new roads.

Civil war is only likely if an important senator leads the legions for self reward. I know that isn't something i'm going to be doing any time soon, what about you?

Senators, why should Rome waste life to act like Barbarians. Surely it is better to lose a little money that many good Romans.

I am no advocate of peace, but i believe we should have a good reason for war. Not just that we are greedy and able to take what others have.

[Ozy]

Why would overspending help our economic problems?

Because that expense is an investment, and the greater that investment is, the higher our earnings will be.

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

ooc: And we all know how Wall Street ended up

ic: Censor Falco stands up.

"I oppose one element of the Quaestorial plan. We cannot ask of the people of Rome that they pay more taxes than the citizens of the Provinces! The good, hard-working sons and daughters of Rome are simply better than the barbarians that inhabit the Provinces, and it would be sheer folly to argue otherwise. So why should they pay an equal amount of taxes - or more, in some cases - as those people in their mud-huts!"

[Ozy]

OOC: Finally someone brought that up! I had expected the Tribunes to be yelling about it in no time

[Raglan]

Senators, our Quaestors report has been vetoed, while i personally disagreed with some of the propositions i would like to ask our tribune why he has vetoed it and then we can see if accomadations can be made

[Hesus de bodemloze]

Yes bring forward my colleague, i am wondering what he will bring up for his defence.

[Imperial Eagle]

Well, I, for one, vehemently disagree with the spending of all the money in Rome's treasury. I may have been a bit rash in my decision, but still believe that something better could be done.

[The10thLegion]

A bit rash senator? You blocked a bill that has merits! You don't think that spending has any upsides to it because its going on somebody other than you! Why should you even be in office? The low slaves know this will help the republic for good! I refuse to be blocked by a tribune and I will not move onto another subject. If you veto this than I am taking the treasury to pro-consuls and have them spend the money for us. Profits are only gained by spending, haven't you taken a simple business course? How have most of us gotten the slaves that do our work? Did we wait and hope they hopped to us? NO we spent the money on the slaves that work for us and profit comes from it. If we spend this money we will have 2 times the profit we would have then we spent! If I do please, I will personally block you from entering the senate again because again I can spend money to do that. What is going to happen when we just let the money stand there?

[Gaius Julius Civilis]

"Quaestor, are you suggesting that I can be bribed? Or was that a thinly veiled threat against a senator of Rome? Because in both cases I'm afraid I must censor you."

[The10thLegion]

A tiny threat? What threat did I make? I think the only threat is that we may go bankrupt from not spending any money from this fellow tribune. Maybe he has bribed you, seeing this hasn't been a true republic in years. Hopefully Im not breaking everyone's "gentlemanly agreement".

[ChampionEuropa]

Armenivs quickly walked into the Curia to see all the angry and arguing Senators.

Armenivs began to speak up. He raised his hand higher to attract the attention of the senators.

"MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY MONEY! TAXES TAXES TAXES TAXES TAXES!"
Armenivs exclaimed.

"It's what the Republic lives and thrives on. In the words of a famous Roman Philosopher, some of you may know him, 'What difference does it make how much you have? What you do not have amounts to much more.' What I am trying to explain by this is that we need to spend money to earn money. But, we must be very precise in how we spend it. On buildings to increase trade, BUT Also on buildings for the Plebeians, to make them more lenient to higher taxes when they see what they produce. This is my opinion. FOR THE GLORY OF ROMA! LONG LIVE ROMA!!!"

A small crowd of Armenivs' friends and supporters applauded his minor speech.

As Armenivs quieted down he exclaimed:

"Sheish. If I'm not careful I may be marked as a Plebeian Lover.

[The10thLegion]

Equestris stood and applauded

"It seems people are more interested in power these days and to make a name than for Rome to prosper. I have the power to veto so I will have to use it so I can be recognized in the history books! Of course you will but in the sense of someone who halted change for the better! I am a censor so I find you guilty in defending the dear republic of which gives me these powers to do this. Of course there is the right way to do things, but that is never taken in politics these days."

OOC - ChampionEurapa: you aren't supposed to say people clap for you, you should read the twelve tables of YATS. It was a good speech though, Im not gonna lie...

[Crozimodo]

I understand the point you make Armenius that money must be spent to gain.

However, I don't support spending our money in order to gaain the will of the plebs.

The more intelligent of the plebs will realise that higher taxes are only temporary and will be over once the economy is stabilised.

They should be glad to be of benefit to Rome.

I believe we can get away with taxing them if we redistibute the legions to control the unrest. This could hold for a few years to stabilise the economy and we can reward the people once we are back on our feet.

[ChampionEuropa]

Equestris stood and applauded

"It seems people are more interested in power these days and to make a name than for Rome to prosper. I have the power to veto so I will have to use it so I can be recognized in the history books! Of course you will but in the sense of someone who halted change for the better! I am a censor so I find you guilty in defending the dear republic of which gives me these powers to do this. Of course there is the right way to do things, but that is never taken in politics these days."

OOC - ChampionEurapa: you aren't supposed to say people clap for you, you should read the twelve tables of YATS. It was a good speech though, Im not gonna lie...

OOC: Yeah I read it. Not to use the People for your own use. I just felt like bending the rules for a tiny bit. I apologize.

I understand the point you make Armenius that money must be spent to gain.

However, I don't support spending our money in order to gaain the will of the plebs.

The more intelligent of the plebs will realise that higher taxes are only temporary and will be over once the economy is stabilised.

They should be glad to be of benefit to Rome.

I believe we can get away with taxing them if we redistibute the legions to control the unrest. This could hold for a few years to stabilise the economy and we can reward the people once we are back on our feet.

"Very well. We will do what we must. I just hope for the future of Roma. Who knows what could happen. I see the validity of your argument, noble senators."

"We must all come to a conclusion. I just hope when all you wise and intelligent Senators come to a decision, it is for the Glory and Prosperity Of Roma, and not upholding old, outdated ways or your own personal gain."

Armenivs took a seat amongst the other senators.

OOC: Whoops, double post.

[Raglan]

Equestris stood and applauded

"It seems people are more interested in power these days and to make a name than for Rome to prosper. I have the power to veto so I will have to use it so I can be recognized in the history books! Of course you will but in the sense of someone who halted change for the better! I am a censor so I find you guilty in defending the dear republic of which gives me these powers to do this. Of course there is the right way to do things, but that is never taken in politics these days."

OOC - ChampionEurapa: you aren't supposed to say people clap for you, you should read the twelve tables of YATS. It was a good speech though, Im not gonna lie...

huh? i really don't get what your trying to say here, your Quaestor not censor, and have no right to veto or censor.

ic; Senators, like it or not the Tribune has used his power to veto. Something that was given to the plebs in the distant reaches of the republic.

Instead what we must try and do is come to an accomidation so that the tribune won't veto again.

The Tribune has veto-ed for the same reason as i had reservations. And Quaestor i remind you, that you cannot simply give all the money to the pro-consuls, because such an act would require a vote, and that would allow the Tribune the oportunity to veto again.

We are all Romans, and we are all trying to do the best for Rome, EVEN if what we believe is best differs.

Now I had little to fault with the Quaestors report, more the fact that nothing was to be kept behind, thus i propose, if it is acceptable to the senate and the Quaestor that a fund of ten thousand be kept behind, and that taxes within Rome are not raised.

This i think may be a suitiable compromise, what does the Quaestor and the Tribune have to say?