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Thread: Artillery (field battles)

  1. #1
    Velico's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Artillery (field battles)

    Who here uses artillery in their field battle armies? I've been using ballistas/scorpions in some of my armies but haven't found much use of them. Their range seems severely limited to what I've read on the range of both these weapons. I've been trying to set them up behind my lines which results in a lot of friendly fire, so I tried setting them on the flanks of my main line to create a crossfire with cavalry protecting them but this doesn't seem worth it with their range and vulnerability.

    I don't like the idea of using onagers in field battles because of the difficulty that would be placed on the crew historically. Moving all those parts and setting it up in time for a field battle would not only be a logistical nightmare, but also impractical in the time allotted.

    Instead of artillery I've been finding myself throwing in some extra velites/auxilia or extra cavalry because they are more reliable and produce more casualties with my style of strategy.

    How do you guys use your arty, if you do at all?
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    jnabb22's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Artillery (field battles)

    i only ever you artillery in my siege army...the one that does sieges obviously. and only the onagers. i find the bastilas, scorpians etc.. a waste cause friendly fire and dont move fast.
    Last edited by jnabb22; August 13, 2009 at 06:13 PM. Reason: haha just realised i put slow twice
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  3. #3

    Default Re: Artillery (field battles)

    I put onagers somewhere behind my heavy infantry to lure the enemy to attack me, in defensive battles onagers aint that usefull, i rather have good archer unit instead.

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    Leeham991's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Artillery (field battles)

    I like to use onagers and scorpions in my attack auxillia Legionary detachments. Usually I attack wall with my attack army but I have found that the huge amount of artillery does good attacking an army that is waiting for you to go to them. By the time they realize that they've made a mistake not taking the initiative it's too late and they can either run away, wait for death or engage in a direct assault.
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    C-Rob's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Artillery (field battles)

    when I first went to siege and saw that there were 5 in a onager unit.. I laughed out loud. It was so badass. But other than sieges, no, i don't use artillery, though I was thinking that I would try it with flaming missles against macedon to disrupt their phalangites so my legion can get in there.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Artillery (field battles)

    Be careful with flaming missiles as they are completely inaccurate. If 1 out of 10-15 missiles hits the enemy unit, you should be happy. However when that happens the number of casualties hits 20-40 men, but still it is easy to decimate your own units unintentionally, thus making you swear at the onager crew. On the other hand non-flaming missiles are more accurate but they inflict far less casualties. So, to answer the question: I use onagers only in siege battles, unless I'm forced to fight a defensive field battle while en route to besiege a city. As for scorpions and ballistas, I never use them - they are slow, vulnerable to any attacks, and do small damage to enemy (I used ballistas once to fire across the river, but enemy hoplites didn't seem to be bothered with the fact that I was firing at them ).
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Artillery (field battles)

    I am fine with onagers being inaccurate, as if you point them at the center of the enemy line, if they miss, they can still hit something. However, my general once died when he was 20 meters away from the onager and it was supposed to go 100 meters. I got a little angry then. All in all, for the huge upkeep, friendly fire., and and slow speed and reload times, i don't use them at all.

  8. #8
    Leeham991's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Artillery (field battles)

    I had a couple of brilliant onager crews stationed at a bridge in northern Gaul. They defended against 12 enemy attacks virtually on their own until I accidentally broke my save x)

    They had something like 1-2 gold chevrons and were equipped with the best armor building materials available. When the enemy clumped onto a bridge head I think it was 19/20 shots would hit directly into a large amount of men. Once one single volley took out 400 men against a clumped formation x)
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    Velico's Avatar Biarchus
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    Default Re: Artillery (field battles)

    Interesting. It seems most of you agree. Which leads me to question why the effectiveness of ballistas/scorpions/onagers is so bad when, looking at it historically, they were praised for their dominance on the battlefield (albeit most of those accounts are of sieges).

    If they were improved in the mod, specifically the ballistas/scorpions, in the way of accuracy and range, would anyone use them? If they had enough trajectory I would probably incorporate them into my defensive armies where I could set them up on the high ground and rain an ungodly firestorm upon my enemies.
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    jnabb22's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Artillery (field battles)

    yea i would use them i they had increased power and accuracy. that would be easy to change in the edu but cant test it till christmas =( lol
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  11. #11

    Default Re: Artillery (field battles)

    The problem with artillery is that Ballistae are extremely accurate. They were often times used as "sniper" weapons to pinpoint enemy leaders and knock them out to throw the enemy into confusion. However, the RTW engine doesn't allow that kind of reflection. Sure, you kill a general and his men lose some morale, but you kill a centurion and the cohort still fights as if nothing happened. So, the accuracy of the Ballistae is negated by the morale system of RTW.

    The other problem is that if you start tweaking with accuracy, you'd have to tweak it with the artillery accuracy in one of the descr files if I remember correctly. The result would be an incredibly accurate onager along with the ballistae. Because of the onager accuracy and overkill, players will more likely forego ballistae for onagers still.

    Personally, I'd like it if the onagers were removed completely from the roster and instead become a siege engine that a unit can man. While I know that it's not possible (only the unit set with onager attribute can man an onager, and the townspeople are actually based on the onager models), it would be far more accurate since Romans never deployed onagers for field battles, only sieges.

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  12. #12

    Default Re: Artillery (field battles)

    i use onagers when attacking in a fort is easy to crush big armies because you take off 30-40% of there force then you sally out and crush the out numbered army
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  13. #13
    jnabb22's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Artillery (field battles)

    Quote Originally Posted by mattfriend0 View Post
    i use onagers when attacking in a fort is easy to crush big armies because you take off 30-40% of there force then you sally out and crush the out numbered army
    thats a really good idea +rep made me kinda like onagers again
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  14. #14
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: Artillery (field battles)

    The 'onager' in RS2 has been replaced by a Greek "Palintone".....a torsion-powered stone throwing siege ballista. It is a bit of a compromise, because there's no model to replace it with...but this is far more accurate, existed at the time, and it wasn't very hard to convert it.

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    jnabb22's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Artillery (field battles)

    Quote Originally Posted by dvk901 View Post
    The 'onager' in RS2 has been replaced by a Greek "Palintone".....a torsion-powered stone throwing siege ballista. It is a bit of a compromise, because there's no model to replace it with...but this is far more accurate, existed at the time, and it wasn't very hard to convert it.
    wow thats great cant wait to see it i action
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  16. #16
    Leeham991's Avatar Campidoctor
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    Default Re: Artillery (field battles)

    I've always though the artillery were far better as offensive weapons than defensive ones. Forcing the enemy to move once they have bunkered on high ground is very important.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Artillery (field battles)

    Quote Originally Posted by jnabb22 View Post
    thats a really good idea +rep made me kinda like onagers again
    It gets even better when YOU are attacking a fort. Imagine 3000 enemy soldiers gathered in a small fort, being burned by flaming missiles
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  18. #18
    jnabb22's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Artillery (field battles)

    Quote Originally Posted by stanley86 View Post
    It gets even better when YOU are attacking a fort. Imagine 3000 enemy soldiers gathered in a small fort, being burned by flaming missiles
    Haha damn that's good to well I can't help it plus rep 4 burning armies to the ground.
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  19. #19
    Kylan271's Avatar Domesticus
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    Default Re: Artillery (field battles)

    I must say I turn off time limits for this. On battle I have used the stone ballista,and normal. I use my artillery with forts in TE Mod as example-especially against Armenian Cataphracts and Archers who try to attack my camped army-night battles beautiful....fire in the sky...^_* . This strategy is against nasty opponents who would crush you on the field so I let them attack my forts. The walls are low so firing over is no prob. Ballistas I use early in game for siege about 2 can take down a wall,and on field they help but only on flanks as they can cause ahem friendly fire. Scorpions in Rome are better due to range,can pick of generals in sieges and for field if guarded reduce horse archers or heavies from distance(best results split forces on field and send scorpions to sides of enemy and attack side to kill more from multi body piercing). With artillery go offence as enemy stays one spot so you can pick them off,but attacked siege fire is slow and has min range(Onangers suck at this)so needs defending more. I use archers + spear + ballista and or onanger(stone for fine shooting) on field to good effect and on VH setting. Depends on terrain also...remember the bloody things can't go through forests like in MTW2..doh..and some rocky terrain...but the edges of the batle I find I can sneak one at a time my sieges into range on smaller maps...yihee,so experiment with pathfinding.

    This is akin to Siege Tower use...mine is for fire support not assault,that I use ladders! Depends how you use it??? Think different and you will win.

    Oh dang,forgot a trick..not field but still. If you have artie,deploy in cities with low walls-2nd rank enough as they can fire over OK. When settlement attacked,sally forth and you have with onangers at least good chance of hitting in range enemy and they can only mill around waiting for you. You can only do this sally once/turn,but you can knock of a good number of their men or even get them to leave.
    Last edited by Kylan271; August 15, 2009 at 11:48 AM.


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