Broken Crescent 2.02 New Beginnings Diplomacy Thread

[Kaizer Merlox]

...? The Kypchak people have signed treaties with all three. As all three are allies. We are are not the largest nation. As of what I can say. Every thing that the Kingdom of Jerusalem has said is a lie. You can see that My forces are are more focused in other areas. As the Eastern Roman Empire offered me to be their vassals, even Constantinople for no reason at all... and then just give us trezibond... Just the thought of all three of the Kypchak Allies are declaring war on the most peaceful. Though, We are eagerly ready to enter negotiation to the Seljuks, I have never had any attempt to declare war onto them, As they are my greatest ally. I understand you concern. Seljuks, Please send negotiations asap.

Kypchaks have been betrayed. I will not stand for this...

[Kavhan Isbul]

A tent will be set up outside of Dvin and a great divan will be held there, with representatives of both the Sultan and the Khan. Once an agreement has been reached, it will be posted here for all to know, and both rulers will confirm it.

[Kaizer Merlox]

Treaty made, and awaiting final approval (Seljuks turn)
Khan and Seljuks are allies, and the named towns will be given/remain in Seljuk hands.
Ani, Trebizond, Erzurmum, and Malatya will be given to the seljuks.
A payment of 5,000
soon as this is signed, another will be hopefully sent of a confirmed alliance.

On other news, All forces remained have been pushed to the Romans, and many agents and family members Including the prince of Rome are now dead. And took their town of Amasia, and burned it down to the ground.

We will progress and increase the number of attacks if the Romans refuse to sign our treaty.

[Commander Ruunu]

To clear all these things up I say that I am guilty in aiding Romans and calling Seljuks to help us. That's all.

[TriforceV]

You are all a bunch of fools, and pretty much gave Seljuks the victory in the West.
This is going to be a very short game...

[Commander Ruunu]

Ho do you know that? With your superior fighting and tactical skill in Total War?

[Kaizer Merlox]

Sorry, My goal now is to aid the Seljuks in what ever I can, As it is, They are my last allies Both of my allies have already betrayed me, and tricked Seljuks into attacking me, but Luckily Seljuks now see this.

I was hoping to play a major faction in this game, but I guess i'll be shrunk back as a support nation for a very larger nation. which is fine, since I'm good at it.

[TriforceV]

Ho do you know that? With your superior fighting and tactical skill in Total War?

Skill aside....
Its common knowledge that when a huge threat, an overwhelming force emerges as was the case with the Seljuks, especially considering the haste at which he took out the Abbasid, that everyone in the West and East should have came together to recognize and resist them!,
I sent a warning to everyone warning them that he would not stop his advance,.. and I've not been proven wrong, and that if you were going to be able to stand up to him, your chance was then (when i sent the warning)...

But your all ignored me, decided rather to fight among your selves and intensify internal conflicts amongst each-other, meanwhile the Seljuks either by instigation, manipulation, or fortune took advantage of the situation like a good opportunist and grew even stronger.

Kavhan is using a simply and effective strategy: Divide and Conquer.
so you only solution is to unite or be picked off one at a time,
United we stand, divided we fall... or so the saying goes...

At any rate, I'm explaining this in past tense, because it might be too late now after the successful dismantling of the Kypchaks.
The Romans/KoJ? might have taken out his armies, which were obviously stationed at the wrong place!! (good one Kaizer!?!)... and meanwhile as Kavhan described, he had loads of spies already in place (which suggest he was planning this for awhile) and took most of the Kypchaks Eastern settlements.

So who gained more from the devastating blow against the Kypchaks?,
and after the Kypchaks are either dead, too weak, or a vassal...,
Who do you think is going to be next on the chopping block, where will the Seljuk spies and armies be heading next?..

It's just a real disappointment, because now there is only one superpower, and he will pick us off one at a time. He pretty much has the game in the bag

Sorry, My goal now is to aid the Seljuks in what ever I can, As it is, They are my last allies Both of my allies have already betrayed me, and tricked Seljuks into attacking me, but Luckily Seljuks now see this.

I was hoping to play a major faction in this game, but I guess i'll be shrunk back as a support nation for a very larger nation. which is fine, since I'm good at it.

The Seljuks were not TRICKED into attacking you,
After he successfully attacked the Abbasid, and you sat on your hands watching them get destroyed,.
He sent most of, if not all of his spies to your lands, installed them before the turn he attacked (which he claimed to do) and then used this situation to attack you.

Meanwhile, just like you always do Kiazer, instead of facing up to the real threat at your doorstep by preparing for a long prolonged engagement, you decided instead to go after the weakest kingdom in hopes of getting more land (Trezi), with intimidation and threat.
So you are the fool, and this the reason why you will be always be a shrunken support nation, because you have no stomach for fighting a difficult war of survival, and instead choose to fight easy wars for personal gain. and Don't understand the difference between them both.

[Kaizer Merlox]

Sadly, The Romans attacked my armies when I was attacking Sinope (A rebel). I didn't expect him to betray me. But either way, I still have my armies, assassins, and spies. I simply lost my southern provinces, but I am still pushing. I might as well ally with the one power who is willing to regain peace. His alliance term was way smaller, but I have instead, given him all of my southern lands, for the exact reason to make him even stronger, and I have also given him money to do so. As it is, You all have betrayed me, So I will only feed the Seljuk power. The best part is, I will survive, and none of you will.

[Kavhan Isbul]

It is easy for the Rajputs, who sit safely in their corner of the map to urge everyone else to war. Why not - they have little to lose and would to have everyone else to do their dirty work, sure. But the rulers in the West are independent and can make dicisions on their own, and they do not need an infidel Raja to push them on suicidal missions.

The Great Divan outside of Dvin has concluded, with agreement reached between the Khan of the Kypchaks and the Caliph.

[TriforceV]

It is easy for the Rajputs, who sit safely in their corner of the map to urge everyone else to war. Why not - they have little to lose and would to have everyone else to do their dirty work, sure. But the rulers in the West are independent and can make dicisions on their own, and they do not need an infidel Raja to push them on suicidal missions.

The Great Divan outside of Dvin has concluded, with agreement reached between the Khan of the Kypchaks and the Caliph.

Spin your web spider, I have intruded long enough, and gave my warning... the rest is left to the nations to either submit or resist..

[spanish_emperor]

Ha, what i suspected all along, if we weak nations "betray" him when he is about to attack us (note: Sinope had already been conquered and he didn't need a full stack with 3 generals sitting in my territory along with high level spies and assassins who conveniently attacked my agents and buildings- yes i know that was you kaizer. And you had a fleet who could mount an attack on Sinope and retreat, why disembark on my territory? simple, you were planning to attack and even had and might still have spies in Constantinople.)
However, when the almight Seljuks betray him in what seems to have been a planned attack for some time, conquer some territory and all their actions are aggressive he says we made him attack, what the ?

The conclusion is very simple and does not require a genius to figure it out, MR Kaizer's plan went to dust and because he is a coward he refuses to accept responsibilty for his own actions and balmes others, what a disgrace.

For everyone to know what happened i will start from the beginning.
This is the message i recieved after i learnt the Seljuks had gone to war.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hi,

The following message will probably turn out to be long, as I do not have the gift of expressing my thoughts concisely. But I hope I have a point, so I thank you for your patience in reading this.

This may surprise you, but I trust 100% of everything you have written.

I learned of the Kypchak plan partially thanks to Ruunu (KOJ), and partially thanks to Kaizer not being very subtle and inventive about it. It is the same plan Kaizer uses every hotseat - pretends to be an ally, then backstabs you when he is sure he has enough support from other players. He is really not that creative or cunning as he may think of himself.

Now, I guess the plan was for him to enter a fake war with you and the KOJ in which he simply adjusts the border, so that I do not suspect anything. Then he hoped to attack me together with Ruunu, while I am fighting Emp. After that, Emp was supposed to attack me from the other side, when my troops and agents are transferred West (Kazier himself volunteered that info). However, I know another thing about Kaizer - he never attacks unless he thinks Triforce will help him. So I guess I have to expect a Rajput naval invasion soon too, as far fetched as it may be.

This is normal and predictable - I am in the middle, powerful and dangerous and obviously I would be on everyone's target list. This is what I signed up for when I agreed to switch Oman for the Seljuks.

However, I thought there was one flaw with this plan: you, as the Roman Emperor, gain nothing from helping Kaizer and I assumed you participate in it out of pure duress. You have no border with me, and despite my past support for the Turks, if I get defeated, you would gain neither land, nor money, nor anything else. Instead, you get two powerful neighbors in the Kypchaks and KOJ, both of whom may look to conquer you. I can see you harbour no illusions about Kaizer and his plans.

The other problem was Ruunu urging me to attack Kaizer. Obviously, this does not help the coalition against me. It may help Ruunu, for he may earn more time, but still, it gives me an advantage at least against the Kypchaks. I simply assume that Ruunu has decided to pursue own goals in this case, and the situation is such that I have to trust him and be his ally, although a glance at the KOJ/Kypchak border shows almost no armies and little damage done (no forts either ).

Was it Lord Disraeli that said that "there are nor eternal allies, just eternal interests"? Well, I think we find ourselves in a situation where we need to be allies, me and you especially, regardless of former plans and commitments. I was going to write this to you, but I can see from your message that you have come to the same conclusion, more or less.

I decided to move, because I put two and two together about Kaizer's intentions. It was obvious really - he had backstabbed me before, so I knew his playing style. He had put three stacks on my borders, did not seem particularly rattled about the fact that he is in war with both you and the KOJ, and finally he sent a diplomat asking for a maps exchange. It does not take a genious to figure it out, and then Ruunu just confirmed my suspicions.

So this is the situation - I started a war to preempt a strike against me, and Kaizer will be looking to concentrate on me, while desperately asking everyone else for help, and in the meantime doiing his usual pretending to be the victim and my best friend, really, this time for real. His troops are mostly on my border or traveling this way, and so are his agents. I have reasons to believe his resources are not enough for him to defend everything, so you will have a chance to actually turn the tables on him and extricate yourself of his bullying.

If you manage to surprise him by destroying his Black Sea fleet and then manage to get to his production centers such as Azaq, Caffa, Tmurtarkan, etc., he will have no way of retaliating against you, meaning that you can take Sinop and Trebizond and get rid of what is currently the greatest danger for you.

I will not rely on you or expect any great help, because these things are out of my control. But as I said, we are in a situation where it is in our best interest to try to defeat a common foe or at least reduce his ability to cause problems. And even though you probably are not quite sure how much you can trust me, I think it is obvious I am a smaller danger to you than the Kypchaks - my victory conditions say nothing about Constantinople, I am away, and I have issues to the East.

So hopefully, we will do what is in both our best interest and be allies out of necessity. I am still not 100% sure I can trust Ruunu (and you can even share that with him), as I cannot see what he gains from fighting the Kypchaks, other than removing a potential future threat. Ruunu himself probably feels threatened by me too as we are about to touch our borders in Syria soon. But he has not backstabbed me so far, and he himself knows I am pretty reliable as long as I am being treated fairly, so I guess for now we can be allies.

Anyway, all this is just words and promises. Deeds speak much louder. You now know what I did during my last turn - I attacked, took two settlements and destroyed a large Kypchak stack. Now it will be your turn and then Ruunu's turn. I know you will do what is in your best interest, and I like this thought, because our interests are the same when it comes to the Kypchaks.

Thanks for writing to me. Let's keep in touch.

Best regards,

The Seljuk Sultan

And this is the message i recieved from Kaizer after, blaming it all on me where he continues to say bla bla bla and i didn't even finish reading it because of all his inconsistency and crap. Of course, he is making suicide just to get revenge on me. To bad his revenge is cowardly and misguided. He gets "revenge" on me even after Runnu accepted he was to blame simply because he can't admit he was wrong and wants to fuel his fustration out on me since i am the weakest, the bully's usual act.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hey,

I didn't know you were in such a dire situation so ill consider a peace deal with you. Its very simple. I will not continue my war against you but you must give Sinope. Trebizond will be our border but Trebizond must not have any large garrison. Amasia will also have a small garrison and all your agents must move out. I will give you money for destroying your fullstack and Sinope. The only reason i attacked was because you were a bit too aggressive against me with your agents, armies on my territory, etc.
If you agree i will convince the Kingdom of Heaven to also stop attacking you and we might divert our attentions to the Seljuks.

I'm making 10k a turn now, You just caused the worst thing to happen, The Seljuks declaring war onto me now means that the Seljuks will not be stopped, and they have won. And it is specificly your fault, I can not defend them. You specifically rejected Triforce's warnings, so suffer the consequences of having Seljuks A kingdom 5x larger than me as your neighbors. You and Jerusalem will be destroyed. All due to you destroying the only military threat against the Seljuks. You are specifically to blame to this, As I am surrendering to the Seljuks, and giving them all of my money and lands due to your mistakes. you'll be destroyed before you know it.

And here is another:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Did you tell Kaizer i had a secret alliance with you?

i did attack him but only to defend myself.

Please tell everyone i didn't help you and you attacked by yourself.

Nope, but he is very confused and so he doubts everyone. He forwarded me some message where you ask for Sinop and offer him to attack me instead, in return for peace.

I am not upset by this at all - actually, getting Sinop, especially if you can do it without fighting, is probably your best move in the situation. After all, anything that weakens him helps me in the long run, and vice versa.

I understand that at this point you need to get rid of his agents and generals from your lands, and so as I wrote to you, you should do what is in your best interests, which ultimately is also what is in my best interests.

Just keep in mind that it is Kaizer we are dealing with here. It is his strategy to openly lie and twist the truth to hide his intentions, and he suspects everyone else of the same. So the more you deny telling me about his plans, the more he will suspect you. It is a twisted logic, of course, but that's just the way things are.

P.S. I was in Barcelona a month ago and loved the city. Too bad the most popular team there consists of a bunch of midgets and an ogre . Had to get in there before the derby, for I may not be so confident afterwards.

I have no idea what he meant by this:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Declined. White peace or none. Attack me more and I'll just give the Seljuks the Settlements.

But he immedietly sent another saying this before i could respond:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I did my turn, To let you know, I assassinated abunch of your generals, and managed to take Amasia with a very high eyed spy (only took 1). If you want this to stop, I demand 10,000. and both cities are yours with out problem, and I will pull back my assassins. I have a diplomat on the way to your fort that your prince used to be, (IE he's dead.) Also, Since The seljuks will be your neighbors. (They demanded Trizobond.) I'll also keep this letter a secret from the Seljuks, who seem very protective in their lands (Pre-emptive Strikes). You've been warned and the offer has been given.

And this is Runnu admiting he was the one who got Seljuks into this mess:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Let me reveal first secrets then. I asked Seljuks to attack Kypchaks. I feared that we might lose the war. I might have been mistake, it might have been not. You have now ceasefire and your position is more secure. So I asked him to attack him. He said that I should provide some pictures of intel about Kypchaks in Georgia. I didn't provide him any. He said that he was going to attack Shah soon. War may just have been delayed now for few turns.

As you can see, the Khans "ally" is the one who made the most impact and surely was planning this for a long time while my attack was out of desperation and i wish i could have seen the Kypchak attack coming and planed it better. If i really wanted to attack you why would i have given you Trebizond you fool?
If there was ever an alliance against the Seljuks you betrayed it more than anyone else by submitting to him and giving your empire away without resistance and going on a suicide expedition to kill me for "betraying" you.
I have never trusted you Kaizer, you always seemed the backstabber of the group and i doubt anybody else will again. You can make things right, but its gonna cost you more now.

The best part is, I will survive, and none of you will.

Kaizer, i rather die as a lion than live as a sheep.

It's sad you have not only dishonored everyone else but yourself.

Concerning the ceasefire you promise me, i guess that was just something you could say to backstab me later and you didn't really mean it? Pathetic.

[Kaizer Merlox]

Promise you of a cease fire, maybe when you pay me for all of the forces you killed. Forces going for rebels. Any ways, no matter... You won't pay me.

Thing is, I have never declared war on any one. Sadly. You are a back stabber. and theres no reason why any of the above is true, after what my Seljuks received messages of my postings... first thing is first guys.. I don't use smileys. Please remember that when you try to make a fake message. lol (Besides the wub one a few times). Either way. I shouldn't even trust any cease fire offers from the romans, as it is, they will back stab me later. They simply can not be trusted.

Originally Posted by Kaizer Merlox
Yeah, i am organising my men. Me and the Romans will seem to be going to war (and maybe the KoJ) and all to make him have no suspicions, and then i will strike with a combined effort with the KoJ, after i solve some issues with them of course.
The strategy is simply, to have as little casualties as possible and kill him fast. If he asks for an alliance, peace pact or whatever say yes and he will have to trust you because he has no one else. Then, when his forces are diverted strike. Then make up any old excuse to get peace again, and then backstab him again. Sounds good?

Really Triforce??? When the hell do I start using the thumbs up and whistle face??? When the hell do you not use that. When the hell do I spell words right, or not caps the I.

[spanish_emperor]

Promise you of a cease fire, maybe when you pay me for all of the forces you killed. Forces going for rebels. Any ways, no matter... You won't pay me.

Thing is, I have never declared war on any one. Sadly. You are a back stabber. and theres no reason why any of the above is true, after what my Seljuks received messages of my postings... first thing is first guys.. I don't use smileys. Please remember that when you try to make a fake message. lol (Besides the wub one a few times). Either way. I shouldn't even trust any cease fire offers from the romans, as it is, they will back stab me later. They simply can not be trusted.

Are you kidding me?
Alright, ha, you will see. You will believe me but you are a sad sad paranoid kid.

[Kaizer Merlox]

the sad thing is, I don't believe you for a second. and theres no reason to trust you until you even attempt to make an effort of peace.

[spanish_emperor]

what if i gave you my pass to my account so you can see yourself that those are not fake?

i will make peace but the Seljuks don't want us to

[Kavhan Isbul]

The messages from the Caliph to the Basileus are all true, and all sent prior to reaching an agreement with the Khan.

The Caliph only rules over Muslims, and not all Muslims at that. Therefore, I cannot tell anyone else in the West what to do. If the war continues, it would not be because of me, but because of those involved.

[Kaizer Merlox]

Then I have a diplomat coming, he will arrive at your fort next turn, if you do not do any thing hostile, and turn back, I will do the same, and the Diplomat will be offered. I don't want to see your stuffs. Simply follow directions and that will be the start of me believing you again.

[spanish_emperor]

The messages from the Caliph to the Basileus are all true, and all sent prior to reaching an agreement with the Khan.

Thank you for confirming.

Then I have a diplomat coming, he will arrive at your fort next turn, if you do not do any thing hostile, and turn back, I will do the same, and the Diplomat will be offered. I don't want to see your stuffs. Simply follow directions and that will be the start of me believing you again.

i don't ask for your trust. i can't force you to trust me, that is something you must alone discover. What i do ask is that you get your facts straight before accusing me of anything. i really thought common sense could guide everyone but for some it just doesn't work!

[Kavhan Isbul]

The peace settlement between the Caliphate and the Khaganate has been completed. Now, the Kypchak and Turkoman hordes stand united against any common foes. The Caliphate harbors no ill intentions against his Christian neighbors.

The Caliph is extremely disappointed that the Basileus has declined offers of trade and has executed the Caliph's messenger. From this point on, no Roman agents are welcome in Muslim lands. Also, the Roman dog in Constantinople is no longer considered to be the leader of the Christians - it is now evident that he holds less authority than the Pope in Rome, and so from now on, we shall only hold negotiations with the King of Jerusalem. Trade rights have already been offered. If the King is nervous about the presence of the Seljuks on his border, then it is proposed that the Turks are relocated to the border. The Caliph will donate Malatiya and Erzurum, if the KIng gives the Turks Sivas. The Turks will then be able to build forts, which will ensure that no Seljuk armies can cross, and vice versa.

The Ghaznavids. who are allies to the Caliph and good Muslims have been able to survive and still manage to stand against those who betrayed them. Their valiant struggle will not be in vain. Furthermore, the Shah has failed to deliver Gorgan to the Caliphate, and has abandoned the castle in hopes of causing it to rebel, after destroying all buildings inside.

But the Shah's untrustworthiness is only too well known. The Caliph's secret agents have obtained some disturbing correspondence between the Shah and the leader of the Hindu heathens. The Khwarezmian ruler - this despicable traitor to his Muslim brethern, has been conspiring with the infidels against the leader of the Faithful:

I agree with the Paramara Raja here...

I am preparing for the attack and I urge the KoJ to understand this common enemy we have.

Are you willing to send money in order to support our alliance? Or maybe a fleet to attack Irak?

While a betrayal could be expected of the infidels and heathens, who do not know better, it is certainly unacceptable from another Muslim ruler. The Caliph himself has taken up arms and led his small, but victorious armies into Gorgan and Nishapur. With Allah's help, the Faithful Muslim armies have been unstoppable and have overcome the enemy despite being outnumbered. Unless the Shah ceases to attack his Muslim brethern, he will be punished for his sins, but if he genuinely wants peace, it is never too late to regain the Caliph's trust - the Khan is the best example.

Hopefully, the recent events have taught everyone two things: the Caliph will defend furious against his enemies, and will reward generously his real friends.