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Thread: Roma Surrectum II: Economic System

  1. #81

    Default Re: RS2 Economics:

    Quote Originally Posted by tone View Post
    economy comes to a standstill as well if businesses are taxed too much
    And you are using it to fund things like Military expansion that has a low return value in economic terms.

  2. #82

    Default Re: RS2 Economics:

    Military expansion has a low return value? I would imagine it's pretty worthwhile, actually. I'd have to think about the upkeep of a stack over 1/2 turns to take a settlement, and the cost of replacing losses etc etc vs what a settlement gives in terms of tax and trade. The problem is comparables: a low tier vs high tier market upgrade? In a large vs small town? Sea trade? And if you're already building those things, they're not an actual alternative since those opportunities are used up (I keep settlements building every turn if they can) - then the only alternative is to do nothing with it.

    Of course, in some cases, when I feel that cashflow is suffering, one of the things I do rather than disband troops is send them to take as many settlements as possible - since I don't worry if they die instead of being disbanded. Usually, it seems by the time enough guys have died so that reserve troops are all used up, the settlements are productive enough that by the time the stack moves further, I can have full reserves again (ie: 9 units of militia hoplites in my current campaign). Taking settlements is pretty fast return immediately, though you might need to buy temples ... it's still probably better than buying really expensive market upgrades, since it gets you cashflow now (and later). Especially for places that have mines or such in them already.

    Ironically, if you're thinking to get rid of excess troops (eg: reserves that just tail around an assault stack the whole day) then the cost of (replacing) the units falls to practically zero, since you were gonna get rid of them anyway. Then again, if you keep them to attack people, you'll have to pay upkeep - unfortunately, sometimes it seems militia hoplites are a little *too* sturdy.

    That, and it still hurts to see 30 of them die when some random unit of peltasts tosses a volley straight into their shields. Not that I don't have the cavalry "option", but horses die horribly as well since they can throw javs even with mounted troops chopping them up. 50% of a Greek Medium Cavalry unit gone in 2 seconds after impact due to point-blank javelins ^__^ Pretty much, if they're in the "reloading" phase, they'll be set in the animation and someone's gonna eat pointy things. I do, however, like how lighter cavalry match up in price, a little below the city hoplites, with the heavy cavalry a little above them.
    Last edited by Alavaria; September 14, 2009 at 02:00 AM.

  3. #83

    Default Re: RS2 Economics:

    In real world terms, not what is happening within the game. If anything, CA didn't really bothered to protray a realistic view on how expensive the wars of expansions was, and how hard it is to get a conquered region to be productive.

    If I recall, it took many years for Britain to become a productive region for the Roman empire, and has been written off as a net-loss for the Empire, just to maintain their presence in that region.

  4. #84

    Default Re: RS2 Economics:

    I think by the 2nd Century AD, Britain was pretty much paying for itself, but that's after a hundred years of eating into the Roman treasury. It had grain, tin, lead, gold, silver, hunting dogs, fur, and slaves. Not that bad a list!
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  5. #85

    Default Re: RS2 Economics:

    Hmm, a hundred years is "only" 200 turns to us, but if the Romans knew it would take so long, and that they'd be two generations dead, I say it would be a bad investment for them.

    I agree, though, it's odd that when you take a settlement you can tax just as properly as in your capital (you'd imagine everyone would evade taxes) and trade goes on with no worry. Maybe this'll change in RS2, but I think you can't penalize trade, and tax "bonus" can't go below 0%. You could impose large amounts of unrest to force the use of lower taxes or larger garrisons, maybe ...

  6. #86

    Default Re: RS2 Economics:

    Quote Originally Posted by rory o'kane View Post
    I think by the 2nd Century AD, Britain was pretty much paying for itself, but that's after a hundred years of eating into the Roman treasury. It had grain, tin, lead, gold, silver, hunting dogs, fur, and slaves. Not that bad a list!
    And that's why I think the economic system in RTW and some of the mods didn't really address the issue that investing in war is usually a loss.

    Hell, even if Britain was paying for itself back, was it able to repay for the amount lost by the Romans?

  7. #87

    Default Re: RS2 Economics:

    was isnt something which you can get immediate profits the simple fact is if you can take a settlement and hold it and let it grow you will gain great profits, it is that which is needed you fail in any of those steps your not likely to get a profit! so i think it is relatiely

  8. #88
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    Default Re: RS2 Economics:

    Quote Originally Posted by apple View Post
    People gets poor. Poor people=less taxes.
    Ahhhhh. Gotcha. Thx for the good explanation
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  9. #89
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    Default Re: RS2 Economics:

    My pleasure.
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  10. #90

    Default Re: RS2 Economics:

    Quote Originally Posted by Beast Within View Post
    was isnt something which you can get immediate profits the simple fact is if you can take a settlement and hold it and let it grow you will gain great profits, it is that which is needed you fail in any of those steps your not likely to get a profit! so i think it is relatiely
    I'm not disputing the fact that you will be able to gain profits from those region. My peeves with the economic system for RTW in general is the fact that you can easily see money pouring into your treasury in a matter of 5 to 6 turns.

    It takes nations MORE than 2-3 years to see those newly conquered region starting to regain their productivity before a war and all that.

    I mean look at the case of Britain, where it took the Roman Empire a hundred over turns before they can see money pouring back into their capital.

  11. #91

    Default Re: RS2 Economics:

    yes but i am sure most nations would have great amounts of money stored up before hand in treasurys which arent exactly represented because otherwise most nations would always go into to debt quickly

  12. #92

    Default Re: RS2 Economics:

    Quote Originally Posted by Beast Within View Post
    yes but i am sure most nations would have great amounts of money stored up before hand in treasurys which arent exactly represented because otherwise most nations would always go into to debt quickly
    Except in RTW case, you don't really need to do so.

  13. #93

    Default Re: RS2 Economics:

    You wouldn't, since a national savings level of over 50,000 will cause corruption, whereas if you stay below that you're perfectly fine.

  14. #94

    Default Re: RS2 Economics:

    Quote Originally Posted by Alavaria View Post
    You wouldn't, since a national savings level of over 50,000 will cause corruption, whereas if you stay below that you're perfectly fine.
    Exactly, which is why I say it isn't an accurate representation of how costly it is for you to mount a campaign.

  15. #95

    Default Re: RS2 Economics:

    no but this is waht im saying the rome tw system isnt realistic but overall i feel it all works well economy wise, it is perfeectly fine as i have tested it myself...the team have it spot on!

    but i do realise that you want it realistic, i dont know whether it can be done at all and if it can its alot of changing i think!

  16. #96

    Default Re: RS2 Economics:

    Quote Originally Posted by Beast Within View Post
    no but this is waht im saying the rome tw system isnt realistic but overall i feel it all works well economy wise, it is perfeectly fine as i have tested it myself...the team have it spot on!

    but i do realise that you want it realistic, i dont know whether it can be done at all and if it can its alot of changing i think!
    I never said a game needs to be realistic to that extend. Different mods can easily have different levels of realism to appeal to different crowds.

    But making a war of expansion way too easy would make the late game not so fun.

  17. #97

    Default Re: RS2 Economics:

    i see what your saying and i agree with you totally, but trust me there is no part of this game which is easy now! Take rome for example in RS 1.5 as the economy was so easy you could pretty much spin off as many legions as you like to win and it was relatively easy throughout the game but in this normally i can only have about 3 legions max in the field while having men in each settlement to keep them and happy! 3 legions isnt alot especially when you have to consider the enemy may have 3-4 stacks and then youmay have severall fronts...i dont think you have anything to worry about personally

  18. #98

    Default Re: RS2 Economics:

    Quote Originally Posted by ray243 View Post
    I never said a game needs to be realistic to that extend. Different mods can easily have different levels of realism to appeal to different crowds.

    But making a war of expansion way too easy would make the late game not so fun.
    As beastwithin has said, it certainly won't be easy playing as Rome, and we are taking steps to ensure that the challenge remains high to end. The last thing we want to hear is complaints that it's all too easy...if there are complaints of it being too hard, well, people can always play on easy or medium.


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  19. #99

    Default Re: RS2 Economics:

    So would we still face enough difficulty even when we managed to raise a standing army of over 20 legions?

  20. #100

    Default Re: RS2 Economics:

    That's the plan. We're just in the process of making some changes that should see that happen.


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