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Thread: Helios 43 - To Whom the Death Bell Tolls

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    Default Helios 43 - To Whom the Death Bell Tolls



    Circus Maximus by Stalins Ghost
    Political Mudpit by Яome kb8
    The Curia by Soulghast
    The Basement by Freddie
    Thema Diva by Rebal6666
    Editorials by The Black Prince, Lord Rahl, Boeing & The Sundance Kid
    Page 3



    Iím proud to present to you Helios 43, this edition is jammed packed with content including a return of Helios Stalwart Lord Rahl, former editor n chief The Sundance Kid and a report from the Circus Maximus courtesy of Stalins Ghost.

    Also I would like to welcome onboard new writers Boeing who is a current member of the Coliseum de Civitate and site award winner Яome kb8. Also I would like to give a big thank you to Y2day who had produced some new banners for the Helios, he is much better artist then I am so checkout his work for the Thema Diva in this issue and if we ever get a VV writer you can check that out as well.

    Now then to start the balling rolling Stalins Ghost updates us with the goings on in the Circus Maximus.


    Circus Maxiimus

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    It's been an interesting month this month, with a number of high profile releases and plenty of upcoming games to be discussed.

    More on the return of Aliens versus Predator

    I know AvP featured extensively in the last issue of the Helios with a Circus report, but the thread seems to have lost none of its steam, particularly in the wake of the release of a "Marine" trailer.

    I've got many fond memories about the first AvP. Not only was the main set of missions authentically and faithfully in line with the much loved license - far more so than either of the two recent AvP films - but it was a game that kept on giving. There were numerous "cheats" to unlock, from "Pigsticking", which turned the Predator Speargun into an obscene shotgun with infinite ammo, to turning the Alien head bite into a lethal Sniper Munch. It let you go back to some of the levels as different races, turning them on their head. There was the excellent skirmish mode - I think everyone can look back to the ever excellent level "Stranded" with fond memories. Then I remember many hours editing the game with fan made tools to go through levels with some surprisingly advanced friendly AI.

    So the announcement of a new AvP game made by the original developers, Rebellion, has definitely gone down well here. And it certainly has on the TWC.

    To start with, we've Danny has done a sterling job keeping the opening post going, and even if you read it back in Helios 41, there's a lot of new images, trailers and information to peruse:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Danny_K_1 View Post
    Rebellion will be reviving their 1999 classic Aliens vs. Predator. players will have the chance to take the role of the three infamous species; the Colonial Marine, the Predator and the Alien. Each of the three species has its very own distinct story-driven single-player campaign mode that interweaves with the campaigns of the other two species. Aliens vs. Predator will also feature unique 3-way online multiplayer, allowing gamers to pit the three species against each other in the ultimate battle for survival and for the right to be crowned the deadliest species.

    The story takes place on planet BG-386 a colonist mining group discovers an ancient pyramid containing a dark and horrible secret. Across the stars a race of warriors is alerted to the discovery of their pyramid and a hunting party is dispatched to ensure that it remains sealed at all costs, whilst deep inside the ruined pyramid a malevolent intelligence awakes from centuries of dormancy.



    The Marineís story is an incredible fight against the odds, and the horrors lurking in the dark. Beset on all sides yet armed to the teeth, the Colonial Marine represents humanityís last stand with the firepower to fight back.



    As the Alien, players will discover what itís like to be the most murderous and lethal creature in the universe, with the ability to traverse any surface with awesome agility in order to get close enough to unleash its deadly teeth and claws.



    A master of the hunt, the Predator grants the player a suite of exotic weaponry and equipment with which to stalk its unknowing prey. Earn the greatest honour by ambushing prey up-close and butchering them for a gory trophy kill.

    If all goes well they are hoping for an early 2010 release on 360, PS3 and PC.

    All taken from Segas blog.

    Videos:

    Gametrailers gameplay: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZCwqqNnZRA&
    Teaser: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cM5dpnqwMM&
    Predator Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dnc81ASjeoo
    Predator gameplay 1: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-aliens-vs/50382
    Predator gameplay 2: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-09-aliens-vs/50380
    Marine Trailer: http://www.gametrailers.com/video/ma...liens-vs/53511

    Screenies:

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    Quote Originally Posted by TB666 View Post
    The new Marines trailer
    http://www.gametrailers.com/video/ma...liens-vs/53511
    The ending is just epic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lith View Post
    Thats officially the greatest thing I've seen this month, I love this game already.
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Jin View Post
    Looks like they got the scary down pat. The sad thing is this trailer just mainly shows the Marines getting raped lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by Danny_K_1 View Post


    WOW....

    This is gonna be AWESOME.

    + Rep for you TB my man.

    I've watched like 4 times already... I can't wait!

    I love the way the predator comes out of nowhere, you just here the little noise the make and he got owned. The glowing eyes were awesome lol.

    I think I may just go a marine few times now for the thrill of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by äexpŻn View Post
    Game over man, Game over !
    Quote Originally Posted by frontier-auxilia View Post
    On the contray i loved how those aliens solid snaked the marine instead of rushing at them head on as a horde of brain dead death wishing cockroaches. Atleast the guy your playing manhandle an alien like some dangerous animal in a crocodile hunter show .

    Imo Fox should take some note on this in how a PROPER avp movie should be made. This one minutes of trailer just outdo the movies by a very freaking long shot!!!

    Btw did you guys notice a girl marine in the squad :S. Her scream was haunting when she's being dragged off by an alien.

    @ken: Get avp2 you get to play as them in the first 2 stages.
    I think we like it somehow. There's been plenty of interesting discussion throughout the pages regarding multi-player and how it will turn out. I think it's safe to see AvP might be one of the most hotly anticipated FPS's in development at the moment.

    The "1000 thing you have learned from video games" came back from the dead recently

    Here's some of my favorites from the newly reinvigorated compendium of "knowledge":

    Quote Originally Posted by RVFVS View Post
    296. You are able to get people to repeat the same thing over and over again just in case you missed it (Mass Effect)

    297. Walking around with your Vibroblade out is perfectly acceptable when you are a jedi (Kotor 1 and 2)
    I guess people are more patient/tolerant in space...

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry X View Post
    317: Aliens hate the human race.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamos the Red View Post
    318. Humans hate alien races.
    Quote Originally Posted by megaflus View Post
    319. aliens hate other aliens (alien vs predetor)
    ... or maybe not.

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseArcher View Post
    - The game called Doom is not only a game, but a prophecy, a vision from the future.
    Beware the foresight of Carmack!

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry X View Post
    342:Humans have waaaaaaaaaaaaaay better asses than aliens.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowcry View Post
    Freelancer

    355-In the future all characters have nice butts that jiggle when they walk
    356-If you get out far enough there is a planet of robots and monkeys
    357-Britain will make the same mistakes in the future as it did in the industiral revolution
    358-Germans are evil -always
    359-All planets stations w/e have a bar and a weapons shop

    AOE 1

    360- If you enabled all techs - everyone built horse archers
    361- Building War Elephants for some reason always got your allies to attack you
    362- Once trees are exhausted in an island map its game over man

    X3

    363- You can explore everything, but why would you want to.
    364-despite building different stations the world stayed entirely static
    365- In the future people are uglier
    366- You can spend hours playing without advancing anywhere

    Barbie Horse Adventures

    367- Never buy games for your sister
    What is it about space and arses this month?

    Quote Originally Posted by SonOfOdin View Post
    400. Everyone hates you(Serious Sam 2)
    Left 4 Dead 2 invokes the wrath of bleeding heart liberals.

    Quote Originally Posted by the_mango55 View Post
    Yeah it's stupid when people play the race card over nothing.

    It's also stupid that we give them this much attention.
    Too true.

    Quote Originally Posted by VOP2288 View Post
    Hmm...that makes even less sense then the racism-card being pulled on RE5...I mean how could the infected populace NOT be black in RE5...it takes place IN AFRICA!!!!!

    If anything, isn't Valve being more progressive by lifting the zombie segregation veil - letting both whites AND blacks be zombies now...no?

    Ya know, I'm actually VERY sick of this crap...honestly - yes we get it...slavery was bad...segregation is bad...inequality is bad...but why must contemporary society still keep this mindset that we NEED to remind ourselves of that. Truthfully are we not furthering the concept that whites and blacks, asians and latinos, etc are different through our constant hounding of each races' differences and by constantly pulling the race card? If we truly wanted to consider everyone EQUAL we wouldn't even pay ANY mind to the fact that we are different (if only in skin color and body structure).
    Quote Originally Posted by boofhead View Post
    If there were no black zombies in the game he'd be crying racism on the grounds of their exclusion.
    I actually thought that about the first Left 4 Dead...

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddie View Post
    Pathetic, however I really wish journalists wouldn't report this kind crap from a left wing glorified 'rent-a-gob', it give him exposure which he doesn't deserve.

    This is reminiscent of when a left organisation (Black Looks) called out Resident Evil 5 for being racist.
    Quote Originally Posted by Da Skinna View Post
    You know what's racist?

    That the blacks were poor in New Orleans and without means of leaving.

    You know what's racist?

    That whites got to get out of Katrina's path long before the disprivileged, disenfranchised blacks.

    You know what's racist?

    That blacks--poor blacks-- are all that's left in New Orleans because they have no where else to go.



    Don't tell us about what's racist...
    This I totally agree with. If anything, I applaud Valve for bringing New Orleans back into the public eye. I read in a couple of previews that Valve took visits to the city to find it still an absolute mess. It wont be racist in the slightest. It'll bring the truth that the city was almost left to its fate back into frame.

    Quote Originally Posted by sopulii View Post
    - White man knocks out black man. RACIST. Brutal treatment of blacks.

    - White man knocks out white man. RACIST. Excludes blacks.

    - Black man knocks out white man. RACIST. This is propaganda portraying black men as a threat to white society.

    - Black man knocks out black man. RACIST. This portrays black men as violent and undisciplined.
    This is really what things come down to. Whenever someone makes an article like the above, chances are it's being just as racist for pointing it out as an issue that isn't really an issue at all.

    AAR of the Month

    Wulfburk's Company of Heroes AAR

    I was genuinely impressed by the amount of effort Wulfburk went into getting his images arranged along with the narrative. Great work!

    Review of the Month

    HorseArcher's review of ArmA II

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseArcher
    But let's just agree in this: The game needs serious patches up to be playable. Not one, but at least 2. At least.
    Don't ask me how Gamespot or other sites were able to give this game an 80%, it's beyond me to understand their reasoning. Perhaps they never really played the game to the end, I doubt it...it's almost impossible to finish it, so I'd say they are biased or just don't give a damn. I'm not surprised, this wouldn't be the first time as you all well know, how various "professional" game reviewers just hand out cookies left and right, driven by whatever purpose, with the exception of being honest.
    In all honesty, I totally agree. I've been playing the hell out of ArmA II, and it really is an exercise in frustration. It's a great game, but in its current state it's all but unplayable. You can have fun with it, but at the expense of the time you spend just working around the bugs.

    Other Stuff

    Blood Bowl was released. Apparently great, but it seems quite a few of us are put off by the dubious price tag...

    Apparently there's a Twilight MMO in development (because we all really needed one)

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos View Post
    Does this mean the fangirls will get even fatter?
    Oh dear.

    Thanatos also observes:

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos View Post
    This game is, by far, the worst I've ever played. I don't even know how it got released on the market with all the bugs it has. I mean, the list of why this game sucks could be never-ending, but here's just a few problems I've found with it.

    - Unintuitive controls require years to master. Years!
    - 12+ years of level-grinding in "Schools", just to up your intelligence stat (One of the biggest bugs in the game: On almost half of the copies released, once you pass the 6th or 7th year, your intelligence stat actually starts to drop. I mean, what the heck, man)
    - Multiplayer sucks. Random inventory stealing, and sometimes even PKing in what's supposed to be a peaceful environment. Not to mention all the annoying noobs that you can't mute or kick from the server.
    - No notice of random encounters. I'd have been able to defend myself if I had some hint that a dog was coming. Music change, dog growling, something.
    - Overcomplicated health system fused terribly with "Everything trying to Kill you". Seriously, I'm supposed to exercise, watch my carbs, sodium intake, calorie burning to keep myself alive (And in shape, for that matter. All of my physical stats suffer a severe drop if I don't keep up with a good exercise routine), all while one little bullet from some idiot thinking he's funny could kill me right there. I mean, jeez, dude.
    - The fishing mini-game is a bit boring.
    - No apparent goal. Seriously, it's like a whole bunch of sidequests put together. I don't know what I'm playing toward, what's the ultimate goal or final boss or anything.

    How would I go about contacting the developers? This game needs a patch.



    Thank your for that Comrade Stalin. Now just in case anyone reading this doesnít know the new Aliens Vs Predator game is expected to be released in February 2010.

    Now from the world of video games to world to of politics, Helios debutante Яome kb8 gives us a run down of the latest plots, conspiracy theories, who Russia is upsetting and just about everything else you can think of.


    Political Mudpit

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 





    POLITICAL FORUMS


    Rush Limbaugh, the Grand Old man of the Mudpit, made an explosive return to the Political forums this month, after months of mysterious quiet absence, with an all guns blazing thread picking up where he left off accusing his new President of the gravest of crimes, not being born American enough. Specifically the eligibility birth requirement to be US President. A pretty serious allegation of course which has been met with that old traditional Mudpit heat and spit. Farnan delivered what I thought to be the killer blow early on, and so fittingly; " Since he came from an American vagina, he is a Native Born Citizen''. Rush nonetheless, in an astonishing man against the tide performance persists in his conviction.

    Ah, no Mudpit would be complete without the weeks Israel and Obama threads, and oh did we have them. With the news that Amnesty International, rather expectedly condemning whoever it was for whatever crimes they did in January, we have our Israel thread. It took a peculiar journey, with people questioning the worth of AI in general, others pointing out bias and discrepancies in Amnesty's past proclamations, eventually making it to elaborate and complicated analogies involving the Atomic bombings of 1946. But no Israel thread is really an Israel thread without eventually devolving into an ''origins'' debate. As usual, this one did not disappoint. What was unusual though was a little bit of humour amongst the usual mud slinging and hyperbole.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    Jesus will have his vengeance on the IDF.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dea Paladin View Post
    And about everyone talking about jesus coming back to kill all the jews is not true. The jews are still Gods chosen people and he does not intend to come back and wipe out the jews.
    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    Turns out the Arab plan is to hold off the IDF long enough until Colonel Jesus takes the 5th round the right flank in the half pincer movement.
    Suffice to say, it did not disappoint expectation, and the thread is still young, with the average life for an Israel thread normally more than 77 pages! Now to move to the other Mudpit cash cow, a certain Barack ''The Red'' Obama.

    Obama's foot must be delicious...
    Do You Still Like Obama?
    Obama of 2004 scrutinized Bush for rushing bills

    Quote Originally Posted by s.rwitt View Post
    Obama's foot must be delicious.....because he can't keep it out of his mouth
    This month we have the pleasure of three, yes three, delicious Obama threads. These threads are the perfect arena for the resident Republicans to rip the Democrats, vica versa, and on-aligned coming down on everybody. Nasty business, muddy business. Now amid the exaggerations and finger pointing in the first of these threads, the arrest of a Harvard professor, there exists a lone wolf, boofhead, fighting his corner adamant to the end that the police acted wrongly finding fault in everything they did, with an acute attention to critical detail.

    There were however some serious debate points buried within that Obama thread mainly centred around the topic of the day in every newspaper and country, the Economic downturn. Lefties and Righties slugging at it each blaming the other, each pointing the finger at different people. JP, and justicar going at it, each one refusing to back down or turn away from their fierce protestations in a series of back and forths, witty rebuttals and defiant declarations. This is common in Obama related threads, he is certainly a love-hate figure who clearly divides the participants into two, giving the impression of Congress itself.

    Lately weíve also had an influx of Health care related threads from a range of angles, from whether or not it is a Right, to discussing public systems of Australia, Canada and the UK, to critiquing the American Insurance system. I do enjoy these threads, they always have a certain personal feel to them. Weíve all had health problems, and to see the passionate and principled debating on both sides in favour of their system and its benefits, is often more refreshing than the usual partisan mud slinging which occurs elsewhere on issues of Foreign policy and Immigration etc.

    So Aussies, how is socialized medicine working out for you?
    Does everyone MUST have health insurance?
    Healthcare, a Human Right?
    Яome's quote of the month.

    The Mudpit is full of strange sayings and unorthodox views and suggestions. Some are funny, others shocking, and some downright incomprehensible. So beware of what you type.... you may just find yourself on this wall. This month I must announce the following as the most Shocking quote of the month;

    Quote Originally Posted by sabaku_no_gaara View Post
    Sometimes I think the only solution to all these problems is to take 10.000 muslims who spoke out openly racist in every eu country and put them against the wall in front of the firing squad to serve as an example.


    _______


    It is still subject to change.



    Kb8 leaves the perhaps the most extreme POV til last ĎÖ..put them against the wall in front of the firing squad to serve as an exampleí. Iíll say one thing for the general content on the mudpit, it takes no prisoners.


    Now then for my favourite part of the Helios I personally present to you the Basement! So far no new DX11 cards yet however an unconfirmed launch date of ĎSeptemberí is the most likely time.


    The Basement

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 




    It's August and for a lot of us that means it's summer time, hot lazy Sundays and long cool drinks to sip whilst baking in glorious sunshine. Now whilst that maybe nice for us your poor computer on the other hand is praying for the autumn and it's cooler temperatures. Now is a good time to do some hardware maintenance on your PC, firstly get yourself some compressed air, take of the side panel of your computer and blast away any dust you see around the CPU's fan and heatsink. You can then do the same for your video cards cooler and any case fans you might have.




    Has it been a few years since you last upgraded your PC? Well for TWC member Shamus it's been 7 years since he last bought a computer and he feel a bit out of the loop when it comes to current hardware and after reading his first post he needs crash course in current PC hardware urgently!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shamus View Post
    Itís been about 7 years since I bought my last computer. Iím in the market for something new, but am finding myself a bit confused by some of the newer terminology. For instance, it used to be that higher and higher CPU speeds were desired, but now I see that CPU rates are lower, but there are apparently more than one processor onboard? Iím not sure what to make of these new rates, and how they translate to current games (i.e. Medieval 2 TW). For instance, would two 2ghz processors give me a 4 ghz equivalent?

    What should I be looking for in a gaming computer now?

    I have posted an example of some of the things I am seeing now.



    Intelģ Coreô2 Q8200 (4MB,2.33GHz, 1333FSB)

    Memory
    6GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz - 4 DIMMs

    Hard Drive
    500GB - 7200RPM, SATA 3.0Gb/s, 16MB Cache
    7 years ago when you bought a PC it was easy to tell which one's were the faster ones, you looked at CPU speed and the greater the Mhz the quicker the PC. Easy. Well due to hardware heat and power limitations semi conductor manufactures have to find other ways to make there processors faster, one way is to make the CPU do more work/calculations per cycle hence it's more efficient, other more dramatic solutions are the emergence of dual and quad core CPU's (now sextuple on server PC's) which means your processor can two twice the work at the same time. Clock speeds still matter but it pays to do your reading before you buy. To make matters more complicated games are just as dependant on video cards now as they are on CPU's, do as well as learning what CPU's there on the market you need to know what video card your buying and how good it is.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shqiponja_Hayabusa View Post
    I see you have already figured out some nice items there. The q8200 is a very good quad core.

    core2 @ 4.0 ghz >10 times at least pentium 4 @4.0
    Hardly a scientific calculation there Mr Hayasbusa but I think we get your point. The CPU Shamus has pointed out is based on Intel's Core architecture which when released in 2006 was twice as quick as the Netburst based P4's now add on the fact it has 4 cores instead of 1 then that advantage is multiplied quickly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddie View Post
    As previously mentioned CPU's now have two, three or four CPU cores. Now just because you have 4 cores instead of 2 (if you bought a quad core) that doesn't translate in to double the performance in games, typically a quad core will return on average 25% better frame rates (running at the same frequency) then the same CPU that has 2 cores running. In liner applications like video encoding you will see almost double the speed (so long as the application is encoded correctly for quad core CPU's)
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamus View Post
    I just thought I would pop in another question to this thread. Iím wondering what peopleís thoughts are on the usefulness of Dell computers in the gaming world. I live in Canada, and out in the boonies, hours from any major retailer. Generally I prefer to order a computer from a larger company, as the smaller independents around here donít tend to stay in business for more than a few years. With my computer before this one, I bought at a local store. Six months later they went under, and with them went my extended warranty and service.
    Oh no the big D has been mentioned..........Dell. ...........hold one what's this....

    Quote Originally Posted by DisgruntledGoat View Post
    Theres nothing wrong with Dell really. You just pay a bit more thats all but you do get warranties etc. They also don't use all the best parts, they usually stick to lower end hardware. That being said, stay away from custom builders like IBuyPower.com.

    A decent Canadian retailer is NCIX.com. You can purchase pre-built systems from them as well as build your own.
    It staggers me the amount of abuse Dell gets on tech forums, I use Dell at work and I can only say good things about them. Now the PC's I get I don't use for gaming but Dell's are keenly priced and highly configurable and the one time I had to use their service department I found it helpful and efficient (I'm using that word a lot in this report).

    I'll leave the word to ChasobSiroc.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaobSiroc View Post
    You pay a liitle more for cheap systems and a lot more for high-end systems through Dell. You get a 1 year warrenty from Dell, when you buy the parts individually, you typically get 2-5 year warrenties.





    Windows 7 is released on the 22nd of October and right now you can try out a free version (fully supported by MS) of it until next June next year all you need to do is go to the Microsoft website, register and download the image and burn it to a DVD. You can currently pre order Windows 7 from all major distributors and the Home Premium and Professional versions are all currently half price! If you worried Windows 7 will be another Vista then don't worry, I've been using the Release Candidate for two weeks now and I can confirm what a lot of people have said about it and that it's the operating system that will finally get you to upgrade from XP. It's generated so much excitement we have a thread on it which can be found here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shqiponja_Hayabusa View Post
    I'm deciding whether change my OS to Windows 7 since I read this review here:

    http://www.techradar.com/news/softwa...5167?artc_pg=4

    Here is my specs.. e2220 2.4 ghz, 4 gb ram 800, hita 500 gb, ati 4650. What do you think will Win 7 perfrom much worse than XP? I want to upgrade cuz xp is good but almost 9 years old, there must be sth new coming with the new OS's. What do you think..
    To summarise the review linked above Windows 7 kicks ass in just about every scenario you can think off inculding gaming where it's consistently faster then XP and much better then Vista. If you are going to run Windows 7 then it pays to get a cheap hard drive to run it from, don't bother trying to partition your main drive as it can lead to problems if something goes wrong (like a power cut or memory failure).

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnonymous View Post
    In my books, reliability comes before performance. Windows 7 is in the release candidate stages, which is still ironing out bugs. I would recommend to use a full OS over an incomplete OS, regardless if it is said to dominate in performance or not. Is there any reason why you aren't using Vista if you want something newer? It's recently received it's second service pack, which is a bonus. I recommend to either stick with XP or use Vista until Windows 7 is fully released.

    7 is aimed to bring overall performance improvements over XP and Vista. If something takes up more disk space and uses more RAM , that doesn't necessarily mean it is slower (although I don't mean to assume this is your logic, but it is a common thing I see).

    Your system would not struggle at all with using Windows 7 (or Vista).
    In terms of reliability I haven't had any problems with Windows 7 but I have received about 20 updates from Microsofts Windows Update service which I guess it to be expected and lets not forget how many patches XP has received over the years.

    Quote Originally Posted by JakethX View Post
    Ive been using the beta since early spring as my only OS and ive never had a problem with it
    Quote Originally Posted by HorseArcher View Post
    Always be careful. Have an extra hard drive with either vista or xp installed. I got all 3 of them and while I have to say that I was burning a movie to a dvd, i used windows 7, because vista kept giving me an error for some reason, but anyway, I have all 3 installed and each 3 on a separate hard drive, and it depends on my mood and what I wanna do which one I want to load into , but 70% of the it's Vista, due to all the stuff set up regarding my browser links and installed software. (and I'm too lazy to import/export and set everything up 3 times)

    So have win7, it' free right now, but do have another OS available anyway, preferably on another hard drive.
    Now that's some sound advice from your former emperor! You can never have enough hard drives in my opinion, I have two internal one with XP and the other with Windows 7, it always good to a have spare hard drive with an OS waiting to go in case of problems with your main hard drive and you need to back up your data urgently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Дмитрий За́йцев View Post
    My advice - don't install Windows 7 over your initial OS installation. (I.E, XP or Vista usually.) I have tested it out, and I would not deem it worthy of being your only OS. For me it was too unstable, and I had to pull 3 all-nighters trying to fix it all.
    My keyboard just doesn't have the characters to type your new name Mr Clone. Now this is to be expected with some installations as they don't always go smoothly for whatever reason (normally hardware issues or incompatibility).

    Quote Originally Posted by PontifexMaximus View Post
    I myself am using Windows 7. I have suffered no performance problems actually. That, and It can play RTW fine.


    If you own an Xbox 360 this is what you don't want to see, sadly for many early adaptors this what greeted them after just a year of use, some say it's because the heatsinks weren't set properly others say it's Gods way of punishing people for not investing in a graphics card for the PC's. Either way Microsoft did respond to the problem, extended the warranties and fixed all the broken 360's however for some of us that's just not good enough.

    Quote Originally Posted by s/laughter View Post
    Xbox 360 broke... I'll never be a Microsoft customer again. period. honestly, I can't BELIEVE they still have brand loyalty after all the 360s that have broken.. it's absolutely disgraceful

    hopefully I'll be able to afford a PS3 b4 too long =\

    I bought my 360 used, and the guy had ALREADY sent it back to Microsoft to be repaired one time... so in fact, it's now broken AGAIN

    effing pathetic.

    my brother's broke as well..

    anyone have a 360 that didn't break??
    [/COLOR]
    Now I should point out his post did contain swearing that was filtered out. Now should we fill sorry for him? He knew the console had problems when he bought it so why does he complain when it goes wrong again?

    Quote Originally Posted by ZainyAntics View Post
    Yup, I Believe the 360's have went through 3-4 motherboards in their lifetime. You probably got one of the first ones (Failboat ones)

    Don't be mad at microsoft, right when you're friend said he already sent it back it should have been a red flag right away.
    Bang on the money there Zainy, if you buy something that you know has had problems you shouldn't moan when it goes wrong again. Now as ZainyAntics has mentioned the 360 has had new motherboard, the latest features 65nm designs for the CPU as GPU which should hopefully solve any heat related issues.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aion View Post
    Microsoft is great. Send it in and you get a new one. Mine broke after two years, sent it in, a week and a half later I got a new one and its worked 100% fine since.
    10 days is a good turn around for a big company like Microsoft which must be dealing with hundreds of thousands of broken units.

    Aion comments have been echoed by a few other members as well who are happy with the service that they received.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheFrown View Post
    I got mine when it came out and i did have to send it to be fixed once. But its been a couple years now and I have not had a problem...
    Quote Originally Posted by RJcfc View Post
    I had mine for a year before it broke. It wasn't really a problem though, I emailed them and arranged to send it back and they fixed it, with all expenses covered.
    You can't expect everything to work 100% time failure free and if something goes wrong then the way that company handles that problem is how they should be judged.



    Backing up your data is probably the most boring thing you can with a computer yet it's one of the most important things to do as well. master412160 asks how often you backup you data.

    Quote Originally Posted by master412160 View Post
    I did 3 day's ago, it is very important if your windos gets a virus or gets bugged that you have a copy of it.

    So when do you do it ?

    It takes of cours much free space but it's worth it.
    Confession time for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddie View Post
    The honest answer is I don't backup as often as I should despite having an external hard drive right in front of me all it would take is 5 minutes just to copy the My Documents Folder across to it. Generally I backup my hard drive and files either when I'm clearing up my hard drive to free up space or when I'm about to format the hard drive.
    To put to further shame onto my name TheAnonymous tells how organised he is with his backing up.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheAnonymous View Post
    In my experience, under the optimization and maintenance I do, I keep my OS installs running without any performance or stability hitches and malware free. Things stay like that until I have some sort of hardware failure, in which then I have to replace the failing component, dependent on what actually failed, I can still keep my old Windows install, unless the OS disk died or my motherboard died, which in that case I then do a full OS re-install. I've actually never had random OS failure or file system corruption that was not due to some experimental procedure that I undertook. Right now I use a Windows XP / Vista dual-boot setup and I sometimes triple-boot with a Linux distribution such as Ubuntu.

    I backup only truly essential data onto blank RW disks, such as long text documents and game savegames. This procedure is done once a week. I also create a system restore point and backup the registry, which I also do once a week (windows). I've never used a hard disk or flash drive for backing up, as those are prone to random failure. I keep the blank disks in enclosures, so the only time the data is not accessible is when my DVD-drive dies, but I still have my data. I also ensure I burn disks at a slow speed so that they do not get damaged.
    Personally I don't trust RW discs, data often gets currently during the burning process and discs get scratched easily making them hard to read.

    Quote Originally Posted by Juli26 View Post
    In my current PC I have done only the backup of My Documents and that was in Febrary. In general I don't backup the files often. If my PC gets a malware (in fact the last time I got one was 1 year ago) I would just reformat it since my files are almost the same with some small exceptions(music, pictures etc). I have all my programs to disks though. Generally I don't care about the savegames and such things, but the combo Firefox+no script addon helps much in the malware area.
    Quote Originally Posted by JakethX View Post
    ive never backed up because i have nothing i can backup to
    JakethX likes to live dangerously, for the cost of and USB stick it's just not worth not having a backup solution in place.


    Quote Originally Posted by 29 days later View Post
    I backup to an external hard drive every so often. I used to backup to DVD's and CD's but I kept finding when it was time for me to read the data of the discs often files would be broken which was very frustrating so I invested in an external hard drive which has worked wonders.

    I advice anyone hear who takes backup semi seriously not to rely on optical discs, apparently disc quality is very low which is something I've know for the past 5 years, I just don't trust optical discs. If you worried about failure of an external hard drive then invest in several USB thumb sticks, their cheap as chips these days and capacities are more then enough for backing up your My Documents folder (although you might need a separate one for music).
    I have had the same experiences, you canít beat a good external drive. Although they are mechanical they are very durable and itís not like there in use all the time like your main hard drive so the ware on them is a lot less.






    Ok, so your computer has gone pear shapped and you have no choice but to reinstall Windows but there's one problem, you can't find the darn disc that shipped with your PC. Well since I have several versions of Windows which I have accumalted since Windows 95 I've never had that problem but it has happened to sabaku_no_gaara.


    Quote Originally Posted by sabaku_no_gaara View Post
    I have vista home premium, but I had to install a new hard drive because the old one was toast. Annyway it's an empty harddrive and I lost my boot disk. is there any way to download it llegally? if possible to a usb device? and boot that way?

    On the face of this doesn't look good, those Windows licences costs a lot of money to replace.

    Quote Originally Posted by Freddie View Post

    Do you know your licence key? Try calling the big M are see if they can help, if not then you will have to either buy or obtain another licence or install Windows 7 RC1 which is good until March next year
    .
    As it transpires he does have the licence key stuck to the front of his PC so it's not all bad news.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChaobSiroc View Post
    You should be able to borrow the disc from anyone who has the same OS and then enter your license key.
    Sounds like a good idea, but..............

    Quote Originally Posted by sabaku_no_gaara View Post
    the 3 people I know with a pc have xp
    Vista comes back to haunt another person, he does have wise friends though but that doesn't help him with his problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by eddie291 View Post
    Go here:

    http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=326246

    If you have some pre-built PC from Dell or some other company(and it sounds like you do if your license key is on your PC), then go to their support site and there should be an option to order a new boot disk.
    Well when I saw this I have to give the man rep, I never knew MS would replace an OEM disc if it was lost or damaged so kudos to Eddit291 for pulling that rabbit out of the bag.

    That's all she wrote for this issue, I'm hoping by the time the next Helios comes out I will have some news on some new hardware from Intel and ATI. Stay tuned!

    Freddie


    Well I canít compete with Soulghastís coverage of the Helios but there are still a few things in there that you can all learn from. Remember, summer = heat, heat = bad for your PC.

    Now then we have a marathon of editorials to get through, well 4 to be precise. The Black Prince brings another anciadote of life a gay, Star Trek fan Lord Rahl makes his return alongside The Sundance Kid and we have a new editorial from Boeing (can I call you 747?)



    Editorials

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Ramblings of the Kid
    I've forgotten what episode I'm on...four? Probably.

    Many people have made glorious returns after short careers. Meatloaf returned in 1991 with Bat Out of Hell II: Back into Hell, a Platinum album that launched him right back up amongst the greatest power rockers of the genre. John Travolta, paling into obscurity after the smash hit Grease, found new fame years later in the cult classic Pulp Fiction. The Looney Tunes gained newfound fame for young audiences with their successful basketball-themed blockbuster Space Jam.

    In a similar vein, it's been a long hard road back to the top for ol' Sunny. After temporarily leaving my frankly nonsensical Editorial post here on the Helios back in March to make way for my exams, I have several times attempted to reclaim my former poise, only for other factors to once again deprive me of my goal. However, I have finally succeeded, and with this long-winded and ridiculous introduction, I am back in business.

    TO BE CONTINUED.


    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    The Skeptidelphian, #1: Idiots? On My Local News? It's More Likely Than You Think!



    Hey everyone, Boeing here. I was watching my local news, 6 ABC (WPVI) last Monday. WPVI is my local news of choice, the anchors have good chemistry and they are generally half-decent (for Philadelphia anyways). Philly news is generally regarded as a police blotter, opening each broadcast with the latest in murder and rape. That's followed by our bombastic weather "teams". Our local NBC affiliate has yellow and red alert lighting for whenever there are severe weather watches or warnings, respectively. I was always half-expecting Captain Picard to come through a side door with his commanding gait, knock down the anchor and take the Conn. But I digress.

    During this particular newscast, the health report came on. Typically this is a fluff piece, no real journalistic credibility is ever invested into them. They're usually the latest obesity scare, pandemic threat, or local child with cancer. Those types of stories are usually harmless, besides getting the more gullible amongst us worried for about fifteen minutes. But this latest one was promoting alternative medicine. Or as I'll refer to it, SCAMS (supplements, complementary, and alternative medicines, the acronym coined by Mark Crislip of the QuackCast). Probiotics is one of the newer fad SCAMS, and this health report was on this new pseudoscience. I'm not going to go into probiotics itself, except that there isn't much scientific evidence for its efficacy. You'd have to eat a hell of a lot of Dannon bowel-bacteria yogurt for it to actually colonize your bowels. By the way, their "activia regularis" or whatever they call it is just a trademarked name of a regular bowel-bacteria, whenever the commercial comes on it gives my microbiologist mother a laugh. Your body has it's own bacteria in your crapper. It works fine, it's co-evolved with us, it doesn't need our help (unless you've been on major antibiotics, which you will have more pressing concerns at hand). This report was presented by a registered nurse, which at first made me wonder why a medical professional would present this nonsense. But then again an RN invented therapeutic touch.

    Anyway, they present the findings of a study that claims that probiotics ease the symptoms of the flu. How bacteria help combat viruses, I don't know, I'm not a virologist and I can't get access to the actual study. But, to their credit, the news mentioned the fact that this study was sponsored by a probiotic manufacturer. Heh, that should be raising the red alert in your mental news studio. Now, this is where it gets really stupid. They then go to their "medical expert." You're expecting an M.D., probably one that teaches at Jefferson or UPenn. Nope, they go to a HOLISTIC MEDICINE PROVIDER. Holy hell, do they do research or not? Holistic medicine is not real medicine (feel free to PM me so I can explain what real medicine is if you disagree), and their "expert" was probably subjected to the rigors of a 12 week correspondence course. They may have well cut to footage of my "reiki master" cousin hovering over cats healing their chi. After they talk to this jackass, who sings the praises of probiotics, throwing out the usual claptrap, it "boosts" the immune system (impossible), it supports digestion (how our ancestors digested their food without DANNONģ ACTIVIATM yoghurt we will never know), and other stuff. I don't really know since I blacked out a bit from high blood pressure.

    When I came to they were talking to a bearded, sceptical looking MD who basically said what I said: there aren't any good studies out there that say probiotics have any use in normal, healthy individuals. Ah, the token sceptic. Making sure the news is fair and balanced! After they cut away from the good doctor the reporter said some nonsense about both sides having their merits. And that was it, cut to Eagles training camp. E A G L E S, EAGLES!

    This is my problem with the media today. They don't report real science or medicine, they report fantastical findings from third-rate studies and unverifiable claims from SCAMS practitioners. The old adage goes, "if it bleeds it leads". I guess that could be applied to science and medicine, if it's fantastical it's going to bump out the real science, because the media thinks that people have no interest in real science. Which is a shame, because real science is far more interesting than the pseudoscientific nonsense out there. Not to mention it's irresponsible. SCAMS kill people. Don't believe me? Go here: http://whatstheharm.net/

    Have any similar stories to share? Disagree with me? Agree? PM or profile message me, I'm interested in a dialogue and article fodder for the next editorial from the Skeptidelphian. This is my first editorial, and is rough. I'm still finding my voice, so bear with me. See you next time TWC.

    Love,
    Boeing



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Rahl's Rants: Long Time, No Rant!

    To all of my loyal readers, all four of you, I want to apologize for not contributing to the Helios and offering you all with my oh-so-borish rants on nothings as of late. Alright, since my apology is over...time to rant!

    For this Helios I wish to start of by ranting on something that has been troubling me for quite sometime. You see, I was born into a very devout Christian family and I went through a spiritual transformation, as some call it, through Christianity over about a 20 year time line. There was a time when I thought that God was real and that everything I learned in church (ok...not everything) was true. But after awhile my faith began to falter and eventually I began to doubt my beliefs. Being in college away from my usual Christianity-scheduled life (church, bible study, youth group, etc) offered me a different view of the world. I didn't have the same Christian support but college allowed me to learn about a lot of new things, including religions. I took a class on Islamic empires and learned about other religions through other history classes that I took. It was then that I realized Christianity isn't as unique as I had thought it to be.

    Yes, there are some radical theological differences between Christianity and other religions but I see religion in a different perspective now. When I was struggling with my faith one question I would ask myself was, "How is Christianity true over other religions?" I kept trying to figure out the answer and could not come up with one. Every major religion has their own prophets of sorts, their own religious texts, and their own claim that their religion is the true one. If they all have and claim the same...then how can anyone decide which one is right? One simple answer is that the decision is already made for them once they are born into their family. One argument I've used against my parents when discussing religion is that people who are born into a religious family will grow to believe that religion (to some point) simply because their life will be based on it (to some point again). I was born into a Christian family and that's why I believed in Christianity. If I was born in Iran then I'd most likely have believed in Islam. It only makes sense. My point is that not all people actually decide their religious beliefs 100% because their life has already been based upon it. Why would I change and believe in Buddhism if I was so comfortable living a Christian life? Get my point?

    But to get back to my original point, how can one religion actually claim to be the true one? Basically, a religion can't make the claim and in my opinion can't actually be true. Think about it, what does Christianity have over Islam in terms of being the "true" religion? It doesn't! They both have prophets and holy texts. Ultimately, it comes down to a believer telling you that their religion is the true one. Using this reasoning NO religion can be the true religion because none of them can definitively prove theirs is right. So far my parents haven't given me an answer that makes sense to me. My father will often quote Jesus or something else in the Bible but all I have to say is that other religions have their own texts that they claim are the actual truth.

    One other thing that confuses me is the whole relationship with God. I guess this includes such religions as Christianity, Judaism, and Islam. None of us has actually seen or heard God (unless you claim that and it can't be proved) so how can we ever think that we have a good relationship with Him? It doesn't make sense. Every other relationship we've ever had on this Earth is built upon communication, compatibility, perhaps attraction, interaction, among many others. So how can anyone actually believe that they have a relationship, especially a good one, with God? There is nothing direct that we receive. We never see or hear who we're talking to. We don't have anything in common with a being who is omnipotent and omnipresent! Maybe it's like Stockholm Syndrome. If there really is a God then we all feel trapped in some way or held hostage and many of us become attached to our "captor", real or not. It's not that I'm wanting proof of a religion so much as getting some sort of logical argument of why one is better or true...or...something that makes sense.

    There is my rant for this Helios. I hope some enjoyed it, found it interesting, or at least had some deep thought after reading it. That's what I want people to do: THINK!!!

    Until next time,



    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Queer Concern


    OK, own up, who here has seen Bruno?

    If youíre expecting me to mince through the fora and proclaim that I loved it, think again.

    I actually have no intention of seeing the film at the cinema, maybe on DVD to see what its about, but this is so not my kind of film.

    Its not that its gay (weíll come to my gripe about that later) its that its crude. It really is, Cohen is. Heís part of a generation of comedians who seem to think the only way to make us laugh is to make vulgar and explicit jokes about sex and swear a lot. Since when did that become funny? The art of double entrendre is one thing, but this is something else besides. Iím no prude, as any of my friends and the Say Cheese thread will tell you, but much as I enjoy talking about sex and other explicit stuff, I donít get amused by crude jokes about it. Itís a sad reflection on modern teen humour that this stuff is considered to be top comedy rather than seedy trash.

    But the film also does concern me on a gay level too. Iíve not seen the film, and from the gay activists corner, itís getting mixed reviews. I think the kindest has possible been that it tries for irony, but in its push for sexual humour at the same time, misses.

    To quote Peter Tatchell ďIf Cohenís intention was to mock prejudice, this film doesnít always pull of the money shot. Compared to Borat, it is more hit and missĒ (Source: Attitude, July 2009)

    Trouble is, if the film is trying to be ironical about gay stereotypes and failing, then what is it actually achieving? Is it making fun of gay people? Or is it simply reinforcing a stereotype? Commentators at The Advocate have noted that people likely to be offended by either gay people or gay stereotypes arenít likely to go and see the film anyway, and that smart people going to see the film will see its clearly obvious that Bruno isnít taking the entire gay community and reducing it to stereotypes, its demonstrating how absurdly silly the stereotype is. Thing is, this film isnít aimed at those kinds of people.

    I guess, ultimately, that this film isnít likely to or intended to change minds or opinions. Which is good. But on the whole, Iím not comfortable coming out of a cinema with my boyfriend and having people think that weíre anything like Bruno.

    Which brings me on to the next issue I want to address today. Iím not especially camp, particularly when Iím sober. Iím not effeminate, Iím not ďgay actingĒ, I meet next to none of the stereotypes. Iím well dressed and fashionable for my age and cultural grouping, but no more so than plenty of straight men from the same group. I donít stand out as being gay, and neither really does my boyfriend.

    So how do I describe myself? At an LGBT Police Community Forum, the local Sergeant told me a story about how the Forceís highest ranking gay officer addressed a group of trainees undergoing diversity training, and he started off with much the same introduction I did, that he wasnít a stereotypical gay, he went on to say he liked cars and sports, like any other man, he was just a normal guy. And it was at that word that the diversity co-ordinator put her head in her hands and groaned. Just a normal guy, downplaying the differences, down playing the diversityÖ I can see where the officer was coming from; Iím a ďnormal guyĒ who happens to be gay. OK, so Iím a Government official and a local councillor, maybe not that normal, but you get my point right?

    But do I want to be normal? Isnít the whole point supposed to be that I can stand out, be queer, be proud, not care and not have anyone care about me? Well yes, yes it is. So why do I try and shield myself from standing out by saying Iím just a normal guy?

    Itís a tough question actually, and one that many people find involved in activism find hard to answer. Normality is defined by the majority, by trying to be, or considering ourselves normal, weíre accepting the majorityís views and burying our diversity and our deviance. ďNormalĒ is about acting straight, accepting ďnormalityĒ is accepting the fact that its ok to be gay, so long as you donít act it.

    But what then is acting gay? When straight people talk about acting gay, they really mean acting camp and effeminate and thatís not me and never will be.

    I like to consider myself normal because it sets me apart from the extreme edges of the queer community, which Iíve never been entirely comfortable with. Some levels of campness just grate across my entire being so very badly, and in part because I know its an act. In Cardiff once, there was this fat, ugly young lad in a gay bar who was really camping it up with his friends, the works. And then his phone rang and it was his mumÖ and on the phone speaking to his mum, the inflection went, the volume went, the voice dropped an octave at least, and the pressing need to use the word ďdarlingĒ once a sentence seemed to have vanished. Call over, it all came back. It was a complete act, a put on, but why? Everything that annoyed about this guy stemmed from his desire to act like that, drop it, and I wouldnít have given him a second glance.

    Societyís attitudes are too well ingrained though, and herein lies the problem. Iím gay, Iím happy being gay (now) and I have no desire to be anything else. But Iíve been brought up in a world that has strict gender behaviour codes, and despite coming out and throwing some of that baggage out the window, you canít get rid of all of it, its there. Iím gay, but part of me is still stuck with the idea that feminine males are wrong and I donít like them. I guess my personal sexual revolution was quite limited.

    I dislike Bruno because its bad enough being labelled gay, but at least I can still lay claim to masculinity and I resist being labelled for being something thatís doubly wrong to the majority.

    Iím happy being ďnormalĒ for a given definition, but at the same time, Iím happy to defend those people who choose different, or who can be different. The Queer community is about being who you are, not what society tells you to be, and a large part of our history relates to ignoring the social trends and traditions of the mainstream. Sure, many young gay men are highly promiscuous. Biology aside, so what? Youíre reasons for frowning on that are based on heterosexual social mores that donít apply to us. We have our own codes. You called us Queer and deviant and we embrace those terms because we embrace our differences and recognise that weíre not bound by the same societal traditions as you.

    But equally, thereís no reason to define ourselves solely by our differences, and in that respect, I do think some activists take things to far (Queer Nation theory for example). As much as there is that is different, we have many other things in common, Iím also British, Iím also conservative, Iím also English, etc. I define myself not as a gay man, but as a man who happens to be gay, among other things. I also happen to be a gamer, a historian, a politician and many other things besides. Who I am, as a person, stems not just from my sexuality, but a combination of everything.

    Coming full circle then, some of us use the ďnormalĒ definition because we recognise that yes weíre gay, but that doesnít set us completely aside. Yes weíre gay, but yes, we also may love football or rugby, we may love going down the pub and drinking a pint or 8 with our mates, then getting curry on the way home before puking up in the canalÖ

    Ultimately, we are who we all, each of us individual, different and perfect. The sooner society stops worrying about such things as diversity and social groups, gender groups and anything else that labels us and divides us, the better.

    And if youíre looking for a funny movie this summer, try Ice Age 3 instead of Bruno, that truly is comedy!

    the Black Prince

    The above was supposed to be the ending for this monthís article, but as I write this I read the news that 3 people have died and 11 people injured after a lone gunman walked into a gay nightclub in Tel Aviv and opened fire with an automatic weapon. Israeli police are treating this crime not as terrorism, not as part of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but as a criminal act, homophobic violence of the most tragic kind. The victims as I understand it were young gay people, killed in act of mindless violence because of their sexuality. Sickening and tragic though this sort of act is, its also reassuring to remind myself that people who do this sort of thing represent a very small minority of the straight world and plenty of straight people will join me in condemning his actions, not because of a shared revulsion to mindless killing, but out of shared sense that homophobia is wrong. Superstar celebrity Daniel Radcliffe recently stated that ďI loathe homophobia. Itís just disgusting and animal and stupid and its just thick people who are scaredĒ. Daniel, I agree with you.

    Iíve also just counted up, and this will be my 33rd Article for Queer Concern, I think thatís quite impressive.




    Once again I find myself agreeing with just about everything The Black Prince has to say, I have to admit I didnít know about the incident in the Tel Aviv night club that sounds truly horrific lets just hope who ever committed those acts will not escape justice.

    The Helios continues on below!
    Last edited by Freddie; August 06, 2009 at 11:17 AM.

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    Default Re: Helios 43 - To Whom the Death Bell Tolls

    If the stench of real world politics has left you feeling dirty then perhaps you should check out Soulghastís Curia round up. Now when it comes to discussion and behaviour the Curia is an Oasis of politics compared to real life and the odd thing about it is that you can only find it on a gaming website. I find that very ironic considering how bad some of the posting is on other gaming sites which tend to have no shortage of internet slang, bah, riff-raff!


    The Curia

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    Welcome to another monthly Helios Curial Report! July has been a remarkably interesting and action-packed month for the Curia, filled with drama, complaints and important Curial Officer and Magistrate Elections. So, let's begin our journey towards the discussion-filled Curial Halls once again!

    Curial Election Coverage

    The first election that will be brought to our attention is the Magistrate Election. Elected every 2 months for 6-month terms, Magistrates discuss all Tribunal Cases and rule as Tribunes in a rotating fashion. Calvin's Magistrate seat was up for re-election, and along with him standing for re-election, two other members also applied for the position. Яome kb8, a contestant of the previous election, decided to try again, along with Elrond who had recently resigned his moderator badge. Unlike last time around, an "official" Magistrate Debate Thread was opened, as a result of the Magistrate Debates Amendment. Hotspur, a Tribune and therefore someone one of the applicants wwould undoubtedly have to work with posed the first questions, with PÝntifex following suit:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotspur View Post
    Would you use your position within the Tribunal to shape the Terms of Service, either in enforcement or punishment?

    Which cases have you vehemently disagreed with the decision reached?
    Quote Originally Posted by PÝntifex View Post
    1. What would be your ruling here.

    2. Would you let your own personal feelings about the ToS affect rulings when it is obvious that a post breached them?


    Two quite similar sets of questions, which Calvin was quick to answer:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Calvin
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotspur View Post
    Would you use your position within the Tribunal to shape the Terms of Service, either in enforcement or punishment?
    First and foremost I would use my position as I have been doing - uphold the ToS as it stands. While I may disagree with some of the fundamentals of the current ToS, my job as magistrate is to make sure that I judge the appeals by the current ToS. Not by what I wish the ToS said.

    So to answer the question directly, no. I would not use my position within the Tribunal to shape the Terms of Service either by enforcement or punishment - merely uphold them.

    That being said, I will use the experience from the Tribunal to shape the ToS through the proper channels - IE: the Curia to a limited, overview extent, and the Q&S/discussion with senior moderators and admins. I feel that one should not try and use their power (and there is a great deal of power to disrupt and challenge the current ToS when on the Tribunal) to bend the ToS to their will. What they should do is enforce it to the best of their ability, and that is what I do.

    Which cases have you vehemently disagreed with the decision reached?
    Though I know there have been some in the past, I cannot think of any off the top of my head. I'll have to go digging.

    Quote Originally Posted by PÝntifex View Post
    1. What would be your ruling here.
    I cannot answer that as of yet since I am ruling on that case and will not discuss it.

    2. Would you let your own personal feelings about the ToS affect rulings when it is obvious that a post breached them?
    No, as I stated in my answer to Hotspurs questions, my own disagreements with the ToS will not get in the way of ruling denied on a post that has breached the ToS. For example, I disagree quite strongly with the ToS when it comes to 'endorsing illegal activity'. I have been an opponent to that from the moment it was brought in. However, I will deny an appeal about that section of the ToS if an appellant has clearly endorsed it or portrayed it as normal etc. I uphold the ToS, I don't necessarily agree with it. The two are not incompatible however.


    Celsius continued with questions directed at specific applicants, while kb8 answered all the questions that had been asked so far:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Celsius View Post
    Question for Calvin:

    How do you think you performed during your term as a Magistrate?

    Question for Rome:

    How do you think, if elected, you would do things better than Calvin?


    -Celsius
    Quote Originally Posted by Calvin View Post
    Hmm, how can I answer this without either sounding arrogant or not worth voting for?

    Personally I believe I have performed my duties well. I have debated quite strongly with others involved in the process, and have not been afraid to give input where input has been needed in my own opinion. I have upheld the ToS to the best of my ability, with my own mind - not just following the crowd (it is quite a small crowd obviously...). I suppose you or I could always ask Hotspur and Mim to give their opinions on how I have performed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8
    Quote Originally Posted by PÝntifex View Post
    1. What would be your ruling here.
    From what I understand it, the moderators of the game, a significant enough number, were having trouble with their game, and sought moderator intervention. The moderation acted. Although I would have liked to see a case showing how exactly the Jeb was annoying and what he was doing wrong. But ultimately, it is a private game and based on what has been said so far only, I'd maintain the ban.

    2. Would you let your own personal feelings about the ToS affect rulings when it is obvious that a post breached them?
    Nope. I did it when I was a moderator, should be able to do it now. So illegal act is an illegal act. The interpretation is something else, and what the Magistrates are supposed to decide on a case by case basis.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotspur View Post
    Would you use your position within the Tribunal to shape the Terms of Service, either in enforcement or punishment?
    I wouldn't try and change the words of it, or defy the actual text.... only uphold what it says. The rules are there, and they are to be respected. In terms of influencing it indirectly by punishment or enforcement, ultimately that can't be done. The moderators can still do as they please to the best of their judgement, and I wouldn't try and force them or pressure them to do otherwise. I'd only judge each case, by case, according to it's needs. If precedents are indirectly set, like the whole implying people are children as an insult, then it still in the moderations hands to do as they wish.

    Which cases have you vehemently disagreed with the decision reached?
    Not vehemently disagreed with, but this one I remember.
    http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=261156

    Quote Originally Posted by Adrian to Me
    I never seen someone as defensive as you I really think you are a ing racist you push this about Africa
    Even though it was aimed at me, he didn't explicitly state that I was a racist, only that he thinks I am one when I push forth my African free trade argument. So I would have probably downgraded it to a note, because he didn't call me a racist, but his post was largely abusive trash.

    That's if I was someone else, since as Magistrate naturally I would not have judged this case, as I am involved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celsius View Post
    Question for Rome:

    How do you think, if elected, you would do things better than Calvin?
    I can't really answer as I have no idea what he does in there. But I have no doubt he's done an excellent job if he carries on his attitudes and views displayed in the Curia and elsewhere into the Tribunal and I doubt I can beat him in this election. I don't know if I deserve it, to be honest, I could be taking out a good man. But my selling point is a new perspective to the Tribunal and my former experience as a moderator so I know the precedents and processes and historical cases.


    Quite insightful.

    the Black Prince, a current Magistrate, asked how the applicants would deal with an inappropriate warning, while Elrond took the time to answer some the questions posed previously.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by the Black Prince View Post
    Where you think a Moderator has overstepped the mark in a tribunal case and the warning is very clearly inappropriate and should not have been given, what would you do?
    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    If it is clearly inappropriate, I would simply vote against it...then probably PM him with some advice for the future. People gave me advice all the time when I was a moderator, I used to be one, so may be qualified to give advice this time round. I wouldn't do it public though, in the actual thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrond
    Quote Originally Posted by PÝntifex View Post
    1. What would be your ruling here.

    2. Would you let your own personal feelings about the ToS affect rulings when it is obvious that a post breached them?
    1. I would uphold the forum ban - it was implemented on request of the local moderators and judging from the guys performance in the Appeal thread he is unlikely to change his behaviour if the ban was lifted.

    2. No, A Magistrate decides whether a moderator decision is a fair implementation of the ToS not whether the relevant part of the ToS should be there in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celsius View Post
    Question for Calvin:

    How do you think you performed during your term as a Magistrate?

    Question for Rome Elrond:

    How do you think, if elected, you would do things better than Calvin?


    -Celsius
    Yes, Otherwise I wouldnt have applied. I think a new face will help the tribunal and I think I have enough experience to be a good magistrate. I am very used to disciplinary stuff first through 3 CdeC terms in 2007-2008 and then as moderator this year. During my moderating stint I avoided the Q&S, the Curia and the Polticial forums as much as possible - I think this would serve me well if I am elected and prevent any bias from me.

    Quote Originally Posted by the Black Prince View Post
    Where you think a Moderator has overstepped the mark in a tribunal case and the warning is very clearly inappropriate and should not have been given, what would you do?
    I would vote to overturn the decision and probably pm one of the senior mods about it, although in all likelihood they will probably overturn such a warning before it gets to the tribunal.


    PowerWizard went on to ask another Tribunal Archive related question, which the applicants were quick to brush off, while Rome yet again attracted attention with a question directed solely at him.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post
    Please tell me which do you think was the worst and the best ruling in the history of the Tribunal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    I literally have no time to go through the history of the Tribunal.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrond View Post
    Ditto. Theres 500 cases under the current system. I really couldnt say which one is the best or worst.
    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    Question for all, but Rome especially. I find this post of interest. In it, Norpheus alleges that you have called other members ignorant, thus justifying his own usage. I'd like the other candidates to rule on the usage of the term "ignorant", as applied to other members, with reasoning and/or backing from prior cases. In addition, I'd like Rome to explain his use of that term as alleged by Norpheus.
    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8
    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    Question for all, but Rome especially. I find this post of interest. In it, Norpheus alleges that you have called other members ignorant, thus justifying his own usage. I'd like the other candidates to rule on the usage of the term "ignorant", as applied to other members, with reasoning and/or backing from prior cases. In addition, I'd like Rome to explain his use of that term as alleged by Norpheus.
    I see nothing wrong with pointing out someone is ignorant (unaware) of details, information or facts regarding a certain event.
    Ignorant; unaware because of a lack of relevant information or knowledge; "he was completely ignorant of the circumstances";
    It would however depend on the context. Saying someone is ignorant in that they are uneducated and stupid or dumb, then that would certainly fall under insult. However I have never used it in that context, and would consider that the same as saying someone is stupid outright. Like many other possible insults it depends on context, which would be up to moderators to judge, then if we disagree as the Tribunal, to overturn.
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post
    I believe if one has no experience in being a Tribune, studying rulings and precedents should be a reasonable prerequisite for candidacy. Otherwise anyone could be a Tribune, really.
    Quote Originally Posted by GrnEyedDvl View Post
    Since the Tribunal has set precedents in several areas, the archives are quite relevant. This is also a must for there to be anything close to consistency.

    That doesnt mean that you rubber stamp something because a previous Tribunal ruled one way on a specific case, and the context of one post can be very different from the context of another post, but at the same time a feel for previous rulings and how previous Tribunals interpreted the ToS is fundamental. If you disagree with a particular ruling or policy, then you need to know the history of how that policy was applied, and if you want the policy changed then go through proper channels not just rule a specific way because you disagree with the policy.

    That being said I dont expect applicants to be completely versed in every aspect of the Tribunal, but when asked a question like this surely there is some ruling you can you can remember feeling strongly about one way or the other.


    EDIT: Even though I quoted Rome, the comment about feeling strongly about a particular ruling is directed at all applicants. Can you not name 1?


    After some more discussion on the importance of the archives and the precedents that have been set by the Tribunal, the Election took place.

    In what must have been one of the most straightforward Curial Elections, Calvin was comfortably re-elected with 39 votes over Яome kb8's 12. Wish him luck for the upcoming 6 months!

    Moving on, we have another routinely Consilium de Civitate Election. Four seats(3 full terms and a month term) were up for election.

    As usual, there was a moderate amount of interest for the seats, with 7 people applying. PÝntifex, the Black Prince and Xavier Dragnesi stood for re-election while CdeC Veterans B. Ward and Boeing also applied. The other 2 applicants were Celsius and Carl von DŲbeln.

    The CdeC Debate Thread that followed was surprisingly uneventful. Only 2 questions were posed which some of the applicants were quick to answer:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Romanos IV View Post
    Ok, here's the question:

    With what criteria would you vote in a disciplinary procedure?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celsius View Post
    I would base my decision on what the citizen has done. I would ask others why they think that citizen deserves disciplinary action. I would not just simple look at what someone has said and vote based on it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xavier Dragnesi View Post
    I don't have any set "criteria" for voting in a disciplinary procedure. However, the way I work when deciding is this:
    - Look at the reason for punishment, and judge whether the moderator-given sentence was just. If not then No Further Action immediately.
    - If it is, then I will wait for the defense, which might or might not influence my decision. If there is no defense, I will usually vote Further Action
    - When it comes to judging the actual punishment, I will look into the background of what caused the action to be made as well as the validity of the defense, and base my punishment on that.
    Quote Originally Posted by PÝntifex View Post
    I have high standards of behavior for citizens. It is a case by case thing though.
    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    In what circumstances would you vote for further action in a case, and secondly in what circumstance would you vote for a suspension of citizenship or a removal of citizenship?
    Quote Originally Posted by PÝntifex View Post
    I can't adequately answer that because everything is judged case by case. I will say that because I have higher standards, 75% of the time I will be voting further action. Repeat offenders will always get a vote for further action.
    Quote Originally Posted by the Black Prince View Post
    Everything in terms of discipline is really on a case by case basis, and cases often tend to have wildly different backgrounds and circumstances, so I guess it all depends on the case.

    As a general rule, on voting for further action, I would look at what the Citizen did to get the warning. The questions I ask myself are: Did the citizens conduct fall below that which I consider to be expected from a Citizen? and also was the Citizens conduct such that might bring the citizens as a class into disrepute.

    I'm not bothered about what action the moderators have taken, because the moderatos are concerned with enforcing the ToS, whereas the CdeC is concerned with ensuring that citizens maintain a good example for all members of the site. A member can be in trouble with the CdeC without breaching the ToS. Likewise, though probably less likely, they can breach the ToS without their behaviour being substandard. It all depends on the case.

    As for sentence, well, obviously it depends on the nature and quality of the act committed by the citizen. However, I also think its appropriate to take their past record into account. If a citizen has committed a minor offence of off-topic posting, but has previously received a Censure for exactly the same behavior, then clearly, despite it being another minor matter, a more serious punishment is required.

    Circumstances where I would vote to remove citizenship would either be cases of very serious and deliberate breaches of the ToS, or conduct so poor that it would seriously bring the rank of citizen into disrepute. Again, this is all going to be dependant on the individual facts of the case, so its really impossible to say something like, if you do this, I would suspend you, if you do this, I would strip your rank.


    Some interesting posts on disciplinary cases, in spite of the thread's brevity.

    PÝntifex, the Black Prince, B. Ward and Boeing were elected.Congratulations!

    And in our last stop for this section, we have the Curatorial Election! And this is probably going to be the most awkward section of this report, so I'll try to make it brief. Talking about myself is well, weird to say the least.

    Three people applied for... having the right of moving threads and stuff. Hesus de bodemloze, Soulghast and Elrond. Their application statements:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Hesus de bodemloze View Post
    I am going to give this a shot as well. So sign me in boy' s.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulghast View Post
    I would like to apply for re-election. I have been performing the curatorial duties for nearly 4 months(1 month as the previous Curator's assistant and 3 months as the elected Curator). I believe that I have done a good job.

    During my term, the Citizen List was overhauled, with user IDs being implemented in place of the old "user" tags, making it considerably easier to locate members' profiles. The Annals Of Curial Decisions were also rehauled in a similar fashion to the Annals Of Amendments, with a distinct post and latin numerals for each year, to allow for more accessibility.

    I have always tried to perform the Curator's duties as quickly and efficiently, and I believe that I have succeeded, for the most part. Most stickies were updated regularly, bills were moved to vote as soon as possible and the I made every effort to process CdeC cases swiftly. In sending out failed Citizenship letters, my prime aim was to inform the user of what he needs to do to be successful next time around, and have elaborated on the reasons the user was not accepted to the Citizen rank(as per the user's request), more than once. I have always tried to come off as welcoming and friendly through my letters, attempting to encourage participation in the Curia.

    I hope that my experience in the role, coupled with the reliability I believe I have exhibited will be enough for the Curia to grant me the right to another Curatorial term.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrond View Post
    I would like to apply.

    Essentially I would use the position of Curator to push through progressive reform of the Curia to make it and the site more democratic and the Curia more useful to the site. I would use any and all of the influence of the position of Curator to do this and I would do my best to encourage others to do this.

    I essentially want to get back the reforming attitude of 2006 - 2007 that made the site so memorable and the Curia useful to the site. I think that every Citizen has contributed to the site and that collectively the Curia should be the driving force for the decisions made on the site.

    During the election I will propose some bills aimed at achieving this and if I am elected I will propose more.

    In terms of the technical aspects of the job: I have done the job before, a long time ago, more recently I have been a moderator and therefore I strongly believe I can do this side of the job competently.


    The Curator Debate Thread was quite predictable, save for a few comments on the apparent lateness of certain applicants' responses.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Celsius View Post
    Thank you.

    One more.

    Why do you think you are the only one so far to answer questions but no other candidates are?
    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    Is the fact that the prospective candidates have not answered any of the last few questions an indication that they really just don;t give a shite? Or is it complacency and confidence in victory, arrogance... or maybe it's just a genuine and valid reason?


    Some of the bigger, more serious posts:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrond
    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    The Constitution demands that you appoint an assistant. Who is that likely to be and why?

    I have no one in mind atm, I would make a decision based on applications I receive if I am elected.

    Also, are you a mindless bureaucrat or a flexible pragmatic administrator?
    Neither, but I am nearest to the 2nd.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking Prince View Post
    On what grounds would you veto a Council vote on a patronization request?
    If less than 50% of the CdeC voted (not sure if this has been legislated recently).

    Quote Originally Posted by the Black Prince View Post
    How far would you empower your assistant? Would they only undertake precisely those tasks that you allocate, or would you let them be a second Curator in all but name?
    It would depend entirely on who I would choose as my assistant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celsius View Post
    What experience do you have in the Curia?
    Too much. I have been active since 2006, was a Curator in 2007, Pro Curator and CdeCer in 2008 and a general annoyance since I became a Citizen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Belisarius View Post
    How can you make the curia more useful to staff/twc?
    By trying to encourage more radical ideas, by trying to get the Curia more involved in the TW section. By trying to make as many appointed and decisions as possible made by the Citizen Class as whole - both those involved in the CC and TW section. I will both during the election and if I am elected, after the election propose legislation to push forward this agenda.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post
    As the position is the only publicly elected moderator position, are you a Humbug, Werther's Original or Rolo? For non-purveyors of British confectionary that translates to hard-liner, average ferocity or softie. Would you report a post to the Administration if it broke the ToS, delete it (and have a word with the perpetrator) or leave it alone and hope no one notices? Due context considered, of course.
    As a moderator I was generally nice to people who broke the rules for the first time but harder on those who repeatedly offended. I think I would probably be softer as Curator. It would depend on the context but in most cases delete it and message the poster.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulghast
    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    The Constitution demands that you appoint an assistant. Who is that likely to be and why?
    Astaroth will most probably continue being my assistant in the case of my re-election. I believe he has done well so far, and am certain that he will continue to do so.


    Also, are you a mindless bureaucrat or a flexible pragmatic administrator?
    Somewhere inbetween. While I will try to uphold the Constitution to the letter, I will be favoring practicality through the use of vetos in some cases, as I have done recently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Viking Prince View Post
    On what grounds would you veto a Council vote on a patronization request?
    Since the Required Percentage of CdeC Participation Amendment passed, I don't think I'll ever need to veto a patronization request. As I said above, I might veto certain disciplinary actions, pending the accused's Senior Staff or Tribunal Appeal, which could possibly render said proceedings void anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by the Black Prince View Post
    How far would you empower your assistant? Would they only undertake precisely those tasks that you allocate, or would you let them be a second Curator in all but name?
    My assistant will only have the power to take care of the standard Curator duties(except moderating) during a possible absence, perhaps churning out a few CdeC Report and helping me with updating certain stickies. However, if a situation that required action arose while I'm not there to take care of it, I would support my assistant acting as he saw fit, within certain boundaries.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celsius View Post
    What experience do you have in the Curia?
    I had been an avid Curial participator before my Curatorial spells, so I am quite familiar with the way it works. I have been a CdeC councillor for almost 5 months, and have had CdeC access for 8 months in total. Needless to say I am quite familiar with all CdeC proceedings.

    That, in addition to my 4 months of acting as the Curator(1 month as an "Assistant" and 3 months as the Curator).

    Quote Originally Posted by Belisarius View Post
    How can you make the curia more useful to staff/twc?
    I am very much afraid that I can't do much through my position to increase the Curia's usefulness. During my term, I have done my best trying to encourage new citizens to participate in the Curia, but that's about all that I can do. In order for the Curia to become more useful, it needs to be reformed, but in order to reform it, there is a need of more people participating rather than scorning it.

    I could say I would propose bills, like others have done. But I'd be doing that through my capacity as a Citizen. Truth is, what you can do to better the Curia through the role of Curator is quite limited. If there aren't enough people interested, nothing will get off the ground.

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post
    As the position is the only publicly elected moderator position, are you a Humbug, Werther's Original or Rolo? For non-purveyors of British confectionary that translates to hard-liner, average ferocity or softie. Would you report a post to the Administration if it broke the ToS, delete it (and have a word with the perpetrator) or leave it alone and hope no one notices? Due context considered, of course.
    I'm probably somewhere between average ferocity and softie. Leaning more towards softie. The truth is that there have been very few occasions of me having to use my moderating privileges in the Curia, and while I was quick to cut down on some blatant spamming, I generally allow some friendly banter and will only request warnings in the case of something truly out of line.

    If a post broke the ToS, I would delete it and have a word with its poster. I would only report it if I felt that said member's overrall conduct in the Curia required further moderation action, and that would only happen in the case of continuous violations. I'd personally like to keep the moderation staff and hex as less involved in Curial Moderation as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celsius View Post
    Why do you think you are the only one so far to answer questions but no other candidates are?
    While I understand that the question is not directed at me, I'd like to point out that the debate thread remains open for 2 weeks. Just that other applicants have not responded by the 4th day does not mean that they never will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Elrond
    Quote Originally Posted by fergusmck View Post
    This one is primarily aimed at Elrond, but applies to a lesser extent to the other applicants.

    In your nomination you set out what you wish to achieve as Curator. Many of these actions, due to the limited power of the Curator, are within the grasp of any ordinary citizen. In only doing these things in your bid for election, do you feel that you are holding the office of Curator to ransom, or that you'll only do this for TWC if it gives you something in return?

    For the other candidates. What makes the experience you have in Curial or moderatoring matters more beneficial that the other candidates? Why should we trust you above them?
    To put it simply its easier to reform when the figure head of the Curia is in favour of it, not significantly easier but still a little bit easier. I will be proposing three bills before the election starts I just need to think more about some specific aspects of them. In short I dont really expect to win so its not a matter of only proposing stuff if I cant get something out of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Sundance Kid View Post
    This is directed at Elrond: In your only term as Curator you were VonC'd. Since then, you've found Christ. How will the Good Lord prevent you from re-making past mistakes, and why should we be more confident this time around?
    Firstly the VonC was stuff that would go basically unnoticed by the current Curia - Ie I remember a hysteric reaction to the CdeC report being a week late - something which is fairly common these days. In terms of Sundances 2nd point I think mentioning my Christian faith is irrelevant to the Curia and tbh its pretty offensive to mention it in the Curia for a laugh. I will try to a better job this time around if I am elected however I dont think the leap necessary is that huge and I think those who were around 2 years ago if being honest would admit that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sqυιd View Post
    Since as curator you'll hold the tie breaking in CdeC, what will you look for in an application to either vote for or against it if a tie occurs?
    The tie break is irrelevant in most patronistation votes because they require a 60% majority to pass. However I think the Curator should be very involved in the discussions and say which way he would vote if it came to a tie were the casting vote matters (if its for instance 5:5 and the Curator voted yes, it wouldnt matter as the candidate would fail to get 60% of the vote - basically you need a very high level of abstains for the Curators tie to matter in patronisation votes). I would look for direct contributions to one or several parts of the site as well as a polite and friendly attitude.

    In terms of disciplinary votes I would look on things on a case by case basis depending on if the person has apologised, the severity of the ToS breach as well as the persons history.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulghast
    Quote Originally Posted by fergusmck View Post
    For the other candidates. What makes the experience you have in Curial or moderatoring matters more beneficial that the other candidates? Why should we trust you above them?
    I have been acting as Curator for the past 4 months, and I believe that I have done well. I won't get in the process of trying to explain why I believe I am better/worse than the other applicants.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sqυιd View Post
    Since as curator you'll hold the tie breaking in CdeC, what will you look for in an application to either vote for or against it if a tie occurs?
    I have more than a term's experience in the CdeC, so I would just vote in the way I would have voted as a CdeC Councilor. However, this only applies to Disciplinary Cases, as the tie-breaker citizenship votes require at least 60% percent of non abstaining votes to pass.

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post
    The following question is not addressed at anyone, and any resemblance to real events is purely coincidental.

    An interesting discussion is starting to unfold, when suddenly OMG, someone posts a youtube video in a Prothalamos thread. Other people try to bully the OP instead of countering the points brought up in the thread. Which action do you take?

    A./ Delete the thread without caution.
    B./ Accuse the OP of encouraging spam and when he replies in kind, close the thread.
    C./ Delete spammy posts, post a general warning, let the discussion go on.
    If the thread serves little purpose and has degenerated into spam, it will be closed. If this happens in a serious, well intentioned proposal, chances are I will just be deleting the off-topic posts and let the discussion continue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Desperado Ü View Post
    How will you promote Curia activity?
    I can't really do much alone. In order to increase activity, more interest is required. And as long as people are disinterested in the Curia, mostly due to the fact that it has no real power, there's nothing that can be done to increase activity.

    How will you ensure that Hex provides a reply as to why a proposal is not yet implemented?
    I'll continually spam their inboxes until they reply.

    What comes foremost, principles or the constitution and ToS?
    I'm not sure I understand the question. The constitution and especially the ToS should always be upheld.

    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    Is the fact that the prospective candidates have not answered any of the last few questions an indication that they really just don;t give a shite? Or is it complacency and confidence in victory, arrogance... or maybe it's just a genuine and valid reason?
    I was away for the weekend, actually.


    I went on to win the election quite comfortably. I guess you'll have to put up with me for another 3 months.

    General Curial Coverage

    Due to shortage of time, this section will be quite brief, and will focus mainly on a bit of an uproar that my decision to close down a thread caused.

    PowerWizard satirically proposed banning clavicles, probably in retaliation to the recent ToS Changes.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard
    I think clavicles are way too luscious, therefore they should be banned from this PG-13 site. We should protect the children from being exposed to sexually implicit content.

    Any figure whose genitals, pubic hair, buttocks, or (if female) nipples, areolas or clavicles are exposed, partially or totally; or are not exposed, but it's clear that this is only because of the angle of the shot or incidental intervening objects (e.g., hands, hair, bits of cloth).

    Just think of it...



    A collarbone today, naked areolas tomorrow?


    The comments that followed were mostly of a non-serious nature:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    I still think she's sexy. Don't care what anyone says.
    Quote Originally Posted by magpie View Post
    Great screen PW.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boeing View Post
    Massed men firing volleys of musket fire into each other, the stench of the young dead strewn upon the fields of Europe...excellent!

    Naked human body...CHRIST PROTECT ME FROM THE IMAGE OF THE FORM THY FATHER HAS SCULPTED THE!
    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    Seriously though I don't see the similarity between nipples and that neck bit you're harping on about Wizzle. I know you're trying to make a point but and all.... but... no.


    Which in turn gave way to some more serious discussion on the ToS:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Mimirswell View Post
    The rules are designed to support the notion that a parent would approve of this site given the content of the site is not significantly different than the content of the game (in terms of violence, nudity, profanity). If the unaltered TW games start showing naked human bodies then clearly we can rethink site policy on this matter; until then, I do not think you have much of a chance of convincing Hex to change this policy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boeing View Post
    No .

    Thank you for enlightening me, I would not have been able to elucidate the purpose of those rules without your commentary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mimirswell View Post
    Given you said they were ridiculous, I could only assume you didn't understand why they existed; else, your statement wouldn't make much sense as that is hardly a ridiculous reason for those rules to be included in the ToS. Certainly, counterpoints could and do exist but they are not so strong that the governing reason is to be ridiculed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boeing View Post
    I do think they are ridiculous. I think more reasonable and more lax standards could be introduced which would still enable TWC to be a "teen-safe" site. But my experience on this site and on the ToS Committee has shown me that change comes rarely, if not at all, and not in the direction that I support. But, being the pragmatist I am, I understand the reasons why Hex has the ToS the way it is, but I still disagree, and I'm still allowed my childish protests if I see fit to do so. Not to mention my comment is more or less disagreement with the American standard of what is and isn't acceptable for children - a different topic altogether - but I wish to express my displeasure at TWC's implicit endorsment of such societal standards in my own immature manner.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mimirswell
    Quote Originally Posted by Boeing View Post
    Not to mention my comment is more or less disagreement with the American standard of what is and isn't acceptable for children - a different topic altogether - but I wish to express my displeasure at TWC's implicit endorsment of such societal standards in my own immature manner.
    If you want to argue that the American standard is ridiculous then feel free but it would better be argued in the D&D than here. In regards to your second point, TWC is a site that depends upon heavy traffic to grow and prosper and that's not achieved by defying basic cultural mores of a large percentage of its membership (even if said mores are illogical). Also, it is not an implicit endorsement so much as it is a basic survival strategy of virtually any organization/company that acts within the North American market.

    I think more reasonable and more lax standards could be introduced which would still enable TWC to be a "teen-safe" site.
    Certainly, minor changes could be made in the ToS but outright nudity is not one of them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boeing
    Quote Originally Posted by Mimirswell View Post
    If you want to argue that the American standard is ridiculous then feel free but it would better be argued in the D&D than here. In regards to your second point, TWC is a site that depends upon heavy traffic to grow and prosper and that's not achieved by defying basic cultural mores of a large percentage of its membership (even if said mores are illogical). Also, it is not an implicit endorsement so much as it is a basic survival strategy of virtually any organization/company that acts within the North American market.
    This is, like you said, more suited for the D&D. If you want to discuss this further, go ahead and make a topic, but I feel that we may end up agreeing.

    Like I said, I understand why TWC does what it does, but I disagree with how it goes about some of it.

    Certainly, minor changes could be made in the ToS but outright nudity is not one of them.
    I agree. There are minors here and it is illegal for anything of a pornographic nature to be disseminated to them. That said, artistic, historical, or otherwise "tasteful" nudity in a proper and academic context should be allowed, and generally it is. The ToS is flexible and TWC relies heavily on the good judgment of its moderators, but the wording is absurd, in my opinion. You don't need to list in explicit detail what part of the female anatomy is allowed and what isn't. The Miller test really should be applied here, imo.

    Now, on the other hand how "illegal activities" are addressed (it's not illegal to discuss past drug use, for example, but the ToS interprets that as such) bothers me. Yes, moderator judgment calls into question whether or not the bending of that rule is in a proper context, and they generally get it right.

    My biggest issue is the phrase "normal and acceptable behavior".
    Quote Originally Posted by The ToS
    ...or portraying it as normal or acceptable (e.g., casually mentioning that you have pirated games/smoked pot/etc. as though this were normal and acceptable).
    "Normal and acceptable" is subjective. What is normal and acceptable? Is it what Garb thinks it is? You? Me? The moderator? There are behaviors that I find perfectly normal and acceptable that others do not, even people who are part of the same social group as I. Now, I'm not a moral relativist, I think there are some morals that are universal, that killing, theft, rape, etc, are pretty much frowned upon in every culture because of the damage it does to the community. Maybe that could be a baseline for normal and acceptable...but what if we put it in context?

    Say a member casually mentioned that they, for example, raped someone? Should that member be infracted on site for that crime? I mean is that necessary? To me that seems pointless. Contact the authorities if you believe that was real. What if they raped someone, but served their sentence? Should they be infracted for that? That clause is totally superfluous and unnecessary, I've had nothing but problems with it since it was introduced. It's too judgmental. The ToS, like law, should be impartial.

    My other problem is with the censored words, it's not very important but I think all non-insulting "curse" words should be uncensored, but I'm not losing any sleep over that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mimirswell
    Quote Originally Posted by Boeing View Post
    You don't need to list in explicit detail what part of the female anatomy is allowed and what isn't. The Miller test really should be applied here, imo.
    Ideally, I agree with this; practically, I feel it causes difficulties. It falls into the same trap of the "normal and acceptable" clause you discuss below. What I feel crosses the threshold to pornography is different from everyone else and inevitably, without strict guidelines, more than one member ends up getting burned. Perhaps the "normal and acceptable" clause needs a similar treatment (or better examples) of what's ok to say and what isn't.


    While PW went on with his sarcastic statements:
    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post
    I think collarbones are not acceptable, as they:
    1./ display outright nudity;
    2./ are one of the sexiest parts of the female body according to several surveys.

    In these aspects they are similar to buttocks, nipples, pubic hair and genitals. Except that there's nothing sexual inflammatory in pubic hair. In fact, it is a major turn-off for most people. Now if you apply the above-mentioned criteria to other parts of the female body, you will also have to ban calves, lips and so on. For example, Iíve always been a sucker for the back of a womanís neck; I love it when girls wear their hair up so that you can see it. On the other hand, it could be detrimental to post women's bare necks on the interwebs.

    Think of it, sleep on it, pray on it.


    Something that was not received well by Thanatos:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos View Post


    If you cannot honestly understand the difference between the neck/collarbones and various parts of female genitalia, then if anyone needs to think about things, it's you, not us.
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post


    I love it when a junior mod briefs me on human anatomy. I propose that the Phalera award should automatically be conferred on anyone who wears a mod badge.

    If you cannot honestly understand the difference between the neck/collarbones and various parts of female genitalia, you haven't read my post, and you completely miss the points of others too. As GB said clavicles are a gateway area to even more dangerous parts of the female body. We should do something to stop the proliferation of such immoral images before they corrupt the site and it turns into a 24/7 porn channel. I call for stricter rules, that's all, a mod should love it.


    Which led to my intervention:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulghast View Post
    I deleted some off-topic and spammy posts. It hasn't grown into anything excessive, but it's best to cut down on spam early, given certain precedents.

    I also see that this is anything but a serious proposal, and looks more like a way for PW to express his dissatisfaction at the newest ToS changes. While the Curia can be the place where you can lodge complaints, it would be best if people expressed their opinion in the relevant Q&S thread or opened another one in the Curia main. What is happening here is certainly not the way to go about it, and if it turns into a spamfest or flame party, the thread will be closed.
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post
    Dear Sir Mr. Curator,

    1. This is a serious proposal prompted by my concerns that seing a female collarbone can cause emotional distress to some users who would consequently stop visiting the site either by their own decision or by their parents'.
    2. You are not meant to interpret proposals and give them implied meanings, especially they are not true and slanderous as such. In fact, you are not meant to interfere with the natural flow of discussion in the Curia at all, unless it violates a clause of the Constitution.
    3. You are not allowed to close threads in the Prothalamos, unless they violate a constitutional clause.

    Please retain your Curatorial dignity. Thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by PÝntifex View Post
    This is clearly a farce. If I were Curator I would have deleted it completely because it is this kind of stuff that makes the Curia nothing more than an ineffective conference room. If we are talking about dignity in terms of respect of the Curia, it is not the Curator's that should be examined...
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post
    So we, humble citizens share our moral concerns about a dangerous phenomenon that could spread like an epidemic through the site and the mod squad tell us to buzz off? Who's got dignity here? Please contribute to the discussion and try to address the issues brought up in this thread instead of pissing around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulghast View Post
    Yes, it is a farce. And I'm saying this through my capacity as a Citizen, not as the Curator. It's terribly obvious, considering that the proposer of this bill had also proposed a Babe Thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post
    Can't people make up their minds? Recently I was convinced in a friendly discussion that seing collarbones through monitors can be dangerous to your personal development as a teenager. You see the naked bones, then you want more and more of that anti-evolutionary e-stuff - and that's where you'll start dating .jpg-s and .avi-s instead of Mary, Julianne and Emily.

    PS I miss Hotspur's times. He either immediately closed the thread without further complaining or allowed it...
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulghast View Post
    Alright, I've had enough. You're not fooling anyone. If you have a problem with the new ToS changes, take it up with the moderators. I'm closing the thread.


    ...and the thread's subsequent closure.

    A thread was opened in the Curia main not too long afterwards, asking why the Clavicle proposal was shut down.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8
    ....why was this thread closed?

    Alright, I've had enough. You're not fooling anyone.
    Yes, it is a farce. And I'm saying this through my capacity as a Citizen, not as the Curator. It's terribly obvious, considering that the proposer of this bill had also proposed a Babe Thread.

    In essence this thread was closed because.... you doubted the proposing member's motives for the bill since he previously proposed a babe thread, which contradicts the aim of his new proposal?


    Both sides expressed their opinion.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post
    Apparently accusing proposers of evil intent and suppressing all discussion on the subject is a new Curatorial duty. I wonder why weren't we notified of this Constitutional change?

    I even had 3 named supporters... anyway, I don't particularly care. It wouldn't have added anything creative to the site just like the gazillions of other unimportant bills recently tabled for discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Astaroth View Post
    It was never a serious proposal but rather a sarcastic complaint about the current ToS. Such things do not belong into the Prothalamos. Furthermore, the topic degenerated quickly and several posts had to be deleted.

    The Curator was perfectly within his remit to close it.
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post
    How can you tell I wasn't being serious? The burden of proof is still on you, especially if you limit the freedom of speech in the Curia.
    Quote Originally Posted by Astaroth
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post
    How can you tell I wasn't being serious? The burden of proof is still on you, especially if you limit the freedom of speech in the Curia.
    Almost the whole thread consisted of spam and a discussion about whether the current "Obscene Content" section of the ToS should be changed or not. Either way, such threads are not tolerated anywhere else on this site and I fail to see why the Prothalamos should be any different in this respect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    Never said he wasn't within his remit. Just questioning the intent.
    The Prothalamos is meant for serious proposals. Complaints can be posted in the Q&S (and in the Curia main I guess), off-topic discussion belongs to the Thema Devia.
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post
    That's your personal judgement on the quality of posts in the thread, not an evidence of me being "unserious" in my proposal.

    So, in lack of evidence, you are saying that discussing the obscene content rule and proposing an amendment to said rule is "not tolerated" in this site. I wonder where is the server located? In Uzbekistan? Perhaps in Uganda?
    Quote Originally Posted by Astaroth View Post
    I did not say that. My point is that spamming (and the topic was full of that) is not allowed. If you wish to complain about the obscene content rule, feel free to do so - in the appropriate forum.

    Either way, the Prothalamos thread had degenerated and Soulghast was perfectly within his remit to close it. Therefore, I'm done with this thread now.
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post
    A few things to consider:
    1. If you regard a post to be "spam", you should delete it, but not close the entire thread. *insert facepalm smiley here* There are a few spam (off-topic) posts made by moderators - why didn't you delete them? Also, based on your perception of what's "spam" and your standard of the logically subsequent action, why don't you go and close the curator debate thread?
    2. I wasn't complaining, I was proposing an amendment to said rule.
    3. The Curia is the appropriate forum for making such proposals. Check the forum description.



    So close this too, that way you don't have to face criticism at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    It's meant for proposals. Full stop. You missed the point of PowerWizards thread. The Prothalmos threads are not just for proposing and that;s it... they're about discussion too. In this case the discussion was about the broader topic of what is considered ''modest''. The Curia currently has the right to try to make amends to site policy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sqυιd View Post
    Except, as has been pointed out, it was quite clearly not meant as a proposal but a commentary on the obscene content part of the ToS, most likely because of the minor change that was made to it with the revised ToS just released.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sqυιd
    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    As I said discussion is still allowed within the prothalmos on those kind of matters, no matter if it's a little unorthodox in approach.
    No the prothalamos is meant for proposals and the discussion thereof, not just any random discussions.

    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post
    Squid, repeating an unproved statement will not make it true.
    Given the posts are there for all to view, lets look at some of them:

    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    I still think she's sexy. Don't care what anyone says.
    Quote Originally Posted by magpie View Post
    Great screen PW.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boeing View Post
    Because the ToS' clauses on nudity, besides being awkwardly titillating in their own right, are ridiculous.

    I've always hated it's clauses on nudity and "illegal activities".

    SMOKING POT NORMAL AND ACCEPTABLE! <-technically that is in violation of the illegal activities clause of the ToS.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius Baltar View Post
    Support. Clavicles are a gateway area, you know what this will lead to. Belly buttons, calves, thighs, the progression is unescapable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nikos View Post
    Support, I also support the banning of any skin. I mean look at this floozy here!
    <pic removed>
    Given peoples responses to your post and taking into account the timing of the proposal, so closely after the ToS changes being announced, and your previous attempt to have a babe thread, which would certainly have pictures with clavicles in them, taking the thread to be a comment on the obscene content is very obvious.
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard
    Quote Originally Posted by Sqυιd View Post
    Given the posts are there for all to view, lets look at some of them:
    I am not responsible for other people's posts as I am not able to access their accounts. I can be accounted for my own posts, not for others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sqυιd View Post
    Given peoples responses to your post and taking into account the timing of the proposal, so closely after the ToS changes being announced,
    The actuality of the recent ToS changes only indicate the seriousness of my proposal. I wished to carry on the changes in the spirit of progressive, 21th century ideas. I even commented that I'm glad displaying a penis or scrotum is now officially against the rules. The site is going in the right direction, instead of heading towards moral disintegration and lewdness.

    and your previous attempt to have a babe thread, which would certainly have pictures with clavicles in them, taking the thread to be a comment on the obscene content is very obvious.
    I see you didn't read my latest post in the closed thread. Here it is again:

    "Can't people make up their minds? Recently I was convinced in a friendly discussion that seing collarbones through monitors can be dangerous to your personal development as a teenager."

    Also, there's a difference between said proposals. Posting a babe isn't frivolous per se, however posting a girl who openly shows the upper part of her breast could lead to debauchery.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mimirswell View Post
    He's not serious; he is just unwilling to concede that he was using satire to protest the ToS. Whether satirical posts have an actual purpose should be the discussion here. I think they have some merit when done as a separate thread provided the satire doesn't devolve into silliness (which it threatened to do so in this case) and instead of the prothalamos, perhaps the Curia Main or Symposium. This would make the satire more obvious and those places are better venues for generalized discussion.


    It was only after I posted in the thread that things got gradually more... heated.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulghast View Post
    I'd just like to briefly explain my position.

    PW was clearly not serious with his proposal, even though he doesn't want to admit it. Certain past proposals, and the fact that he currently has this album up should be enough to convince anyone.

    Now, while I generally don't mind some not entirely serious proposals, PW's proposal was ill-natured and came off more as a troll directed towards the moderation branch, if anything. While I initially decided to delete some posts, post a general warning and not close the thread, after thinking it over and consulting certain persons, I decided to close it.

    If people want to have a discussion on the newest ToS changes, they are more than welcome to do so, either in the Curia main or in the QS. But proposing ToS amendments just for the sake of being trollish will not be tolerated.
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulghast View Post
    PW was clearly not serious with his proposal, even though he doesn't want to admit it. Certain past proposals, and the fact that he currently has this album up should be enough to convince anyone.
    I already said that I changed my mind, and was convinced by friends and recent scholarly studies showing that a collarbone is among the top 10 sexiest parts of the female body. Seeing one on Total War Centre could be detrimental to the health of a teenager after he saw his total war soldiers burnt alive or trampled to death. My picture collection of cars can be accessed only by friends and admins. It's like sharing a bottle of wine with friends at a party: you know all of them can drink alcohol. But I am a responsible person, I know that the masses of TWC shouldn't be exposed to such pestilence that would detrimentally affect their sexual development.

    Given that you were unable again to provide proper and ample evidence to back up your claim, I call BS. I won't repeat myself from the previous thread, read my posts again.

    While I initially decided to delete some posts, post a general warning and not close the thread, after thinking it over and consulting certain persons, I decided to close it.
    Can't you decide it your own? It is your moral duty as a Curator to act on your own and be independent from others.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulghast
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post
    I already said that I changed my mind, and was convinced by friends and recent scholarly studies showing that a collarbone is among the top 10 sexiest parts of the female body. Seeing one on Total War Centre could be detrimental to the health of a teenager after he saw his total war soldiers burnt alive or trampled to death. My picture collection of cars can be accessed only by friends and admins. It's like sharing a bottle of wine with friends at a party: you know all of them can drink alcohol. But I am a responsible person, I know that the masses of TWC shouldn't be exposed to such pestilence that would detrimentally affect their sexual development.
    I am not on your friends list, and I can see the album. And so can everyone on TWC.

    Given that you were unable again to provide proper and ample evidence to back up your claim, I call BS. I won't repeat myself from the previous thread, read my posts again.
    It's blatantly obvious that you were just trolling. Still are, actually. I don't need conclusive evidence of your intent to close a thread. It's the internet.

    Can't you decide it your own? It is your moral duty as a Curator to act on your own and be independent from others.
    I made the decision. The fact that I talked with some people just made me reconsider my stance. I wasn't aware that it wasn't allowed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Soulghast
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post
    It is a technical glitch. But if you are so anal about my 1967 Chevrolet Impala, I can report it for you. Geez.
    I don't care at all actually. It's just hypocritical.

    What's the evidence of your claims again? Are you able to read my mind? You know I can do the same. It is blatantly obvious that you're just trolling/BS-ing here. I can tell it from the look of your eyes, because we're on the interwebs.
    I don't need to be able to read your mind in order to point out the obvious. Your album, the tone of your posts, and your history of debating against such "prudish" as you used to call them ToS changes make it clear that you're just protesting about the newest ToS changes. And you know it. Now, you say you changed your mind? Well, given all the above, I just can't believe you.

    The fact that you talk with "some people" instead of making a decision on your own makes me question certain abilities of yours.
    You are free to VonC me if you're in doubt concerning my abilities.

    Anyway, I'm done with this thread. I've explained my position numerous times, and my decision won't change. If you want to keep complaining about it, do it, but I won't reply to any more of your posts. But if I were you, I'd stop.


    Other Citizens were quick to comment.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Macky View Post
    ooooh drama
    Quote Originally Posted by imb39 View Post
    Just a glimpse of the good ol' days
    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    I think it shows that the Curia is healthy if something is debated with passion and perhaps a little anger. Alot of things that are done with anger are often more pleasurable too. Like having sex. OK, I actually cant think of anything else. But both PW and Soulghast are right.
    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    Are you suggesting Soulghast and Wiz should sort out there differences over pillow talk?
    Quote Originally Posted by Heinz Guderian View Post
    OMFG asthagfirullah no. May Allah forgive you for what you just made me imagine.


    And after cooling down, a few more posts discussing babe threads among other things:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Junius View Post
    Though it is satire, and I commend PW dedication to the cause, I do agree with the overall sentiment. The ToS fails the majority of the userbase when it decides to pursue a PG-13 site. As has been brought up numerous times, the most recent games have carried ratings of a higher age. While some may argue that TWC is still trying to appeal to the players, speciffically those young players (below the age of 15/16) who still play R:TW or M:TW, the level of activity in the forums which cater to those groups, especially when we consider that age is all important, seriously dents that arguement.

    There may still be some who argue that we need a PG-13 site to qualify for a Gold Affliation standard, but what is that standard really worth? Is it worth this site ignoring a proportion of it's users? I say not.

    While I am not saying that TWC should become a porn site, I would support a 'Babe's thread', as some others would. While some people may find this offensive or lewd, we should not be limited in what we can do or say or post by the attitudes of others. There are certainly threads in the D&D which some may find offensive, yet they are not closed.

    Finally, I find this use of satire and parody useful. It brings up several issues, not only what the OP intended. We have seen what some may consider the overreach of Curatorial authority, and it's challenge. I support PW in his assertation that evidence should be produced to close a thread, not just someone, even in a position of authority and trust, saying that any contradiction of the ToS is 'obvious'. This is not trolling, any more the political satire is trolling. It highlights it's points by bringing to the fore the ridiculousness of the opposition, and doing it in a more humourous, and thus more effective, way. If someone cannot deal with satire and parody, and being the object of fun, inherent to any political position, or one of power, than they should ask themselves if they really should be in that position.
    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    There are more effectively constructive ways of making a point than using satire. Satire can be entertaining in short doses, especially if coupled with genuine attempts at action. When there is nothing but satire, even that becomes cloying. And when coupled with disdain and mockery for genuine attempts at addressing issues, said satirists lose this supposed point, of provoking reform through wit.

    If PW doesn't like these latest additions to the ToS, perhaps it could be simplified, by allowing moderators to use their discretion to judge what is and isn't allowed. If this were so, there wouldn't need to be any list of bodily parts that can and cannot be shown, as there would be a common understanding among members, which could be highly flexible, depending on what common understanding meant at any point in time. However, when a Babe thread was last discussed, my attempts to push the discussion towards this were rejected by PW, who responded by challenging me to point to the part of the ToS which forbade him from posting pictures of girls. Since moderator discretion and definition wasn't sufficient, ToS definition will have to do.

    Incidentally, there were certain ironies to that incident, which moderation staff can see in the Den. I tried to nudge PW towards an answer which could have satisfied him, if only he'd have tried to listen, rather than talk over everyone. Instead, he managed to sabotage his own case more effectively than I could ever have done, or that I'd have wanted to. But then again, the Curia has tended to encourage debaters who seek to prevail, rather than find a solution that achieves a goal whilst addressing raised issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garnier View Post
    The tribunal's decision is the rule in the end of course, but in practice it is moderator discretion that handles most situations. For sensitive and borderline things, usually the strats want to do the actual infracting simply to avoid abuse of the juniors. At the end of the day, moderating staff is trying to manage the site as best they can, and people will always complain about the decisions that are made. Senior staff has a lot to do that has more and better impact on more people here than argue about the technicalities of the ToS, since there will always be complaints about the ToS as long as it exists -- and it must exist.

    I think we basically draw a somewhat arbitrary line and then allow moderator discretion to keep things working. This site is very remarkable in that there is far more openness to criticism of the establishment than you'll find in almost any big internet community -- and that is something deserving of respect. It is heavily abused, but I think we have to simply not worry about it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Viking Prince View Post
    No -- the babe thread would make us look more like a barracks.

    Do you really think that the members of this site would not have sufficient numbers to derail a babe thread with off color comments, suggestions of activities, etc. Do you really think that there would not be attempts to test limits on the size of the bikini, the thinness of the fabric, or the suggestive poses?

    Since I have complete faith that all of the above would happen, why do you wish to tempt fate. Do you really want the weaker willed to become permabanned from point accumulation? Do you really want a moderator assign to duty 24/7 to keep the site pg-13?

    You already can have a signature, a face page picture and as many albums as you wish. Oh, and even a social group. The social groups can have threads now also. Do you really need a thread as well?
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post
    You learnt the stereotypical response of moderators, thinking inside the Den box. You adapt quickly.

    As for displaying female creatures in avatars, sigs, social groups and albums, it just shows that the policy is inconsistent.
    Quote Originally Posted by Viking Prince View Post
    I will take that as the kind hearted compliment that you meant it to be.

    Seriously....

    Do you think that such threads would not become problems as I outlined in my prior post?

    I am not suggesting that the babe pics that you would post would be the problem. This is also why I think the issue is consistent -- there is not the same type of potential for mischief when the babe pic is not within a forum thread. The problem is not the pic so much as the comments to the pic. This of course presumes the babe pic itself is not an attempt to test boundaries based on coverage, materials, and poses.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seleukos View Post
    I remember the old babe thread. It was a mess, moderators had to be all over it 24/7. Like imb39 said, just go to google. Or any other of billions of sites out there with that sort of content.
    Quote Originally Posted by PowerWizard View Post
    Yeah "go google", but nobody gives a shite about Google Images anymore, it is an old meme, besides Google is famous for giving misinformation. It will give you porn even if you are looking for cats. So I wouldn't recommend the solution "go google". Also, there's a difference between browsing images and discussing them. If TWC is not fitted to maintain a babe thread, it just shows the immaturity of the site.
    Quote Originally Posted by Garnier View Post
    I think that it does show the immaturity of the site, and that is why the babe thread is not allowed.


    Before the thread resolved to light-hearted banter, off-topicness and speculation on Newcastle's future.

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    This is my thread buddy, I can bollock all over it if I want.
    Quote Originally Posted by imb39 View Post
    Well, in some ways it is a contribution. It reflects what people think about the situation, ie hand bags at dawn -

    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    This thread has run it's course. Looking back I can't remember why I even cared anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Lime View Post
    Welcome to the world of every Newcastle supporter.
    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    Oh, one day now Harry, they'll be back to the top. One day.
    Quote Originally Posted by imb39 View Post
    Top of Division 2?
    Quote Originally Posted by Яome kb8 View Post
    Nah... come one... at least... division 1.


    Other points of interest include:


    Have fun in the Curia!

    -- Soulghast



    Once again another monster review of the The Curia, well done Soulghasts. Now if everyone made their report as long Soulghastís the Helios would be spreads over 10 posts!

    If the affairs of the community aren't enough to satisfy your appetite for community news then perhaps Rebal6666 can fill that hole with his Thema Diva report.



    Thema Diva

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    THEMA DEVIA


    Hi Fans, here is my 3rd report for the Helios #43. Iím glad to have the opportunity to world with the Helios team and I would recommend it to anyone who would like to contribute to the site in a fun and informative way. I would like to say a big thanks to Freddie, the Content Editor for giving me the chance to work with him, Iím sure that he doesnít regret. Anyways I would encourage anyone of you to join in when future openings will occur.

    Now letís start screening the Thema Devia Subforum.

    My first thread is a thread where you will be able to learn more about your fellow members here on TWC.

    Random facts about yourself?

    Here are some interesting comments:

    Posted by Godfrey I of Leuvan

    I am bored

    I am bilingual

    I listen to metal/hard rock but I also enjoy some classics from time to time.

    Ashashi's my sensei in learning how to fold ninja masks; il padrino is teaching me how to hover as all Serbian people do.

    I am drinking water right now.

    Posted by Lance-Corporal Jones

    I am pent lingual.

    I work as a translator.

    I am a fencer.

    My surname means "dweller of the bog".

    I do not dwell in a bog.

    Rebel6666: You need to get your name changed in that case

    Posted by Boofhead

    I was adopted. When I met my family aged 20 I discovered I had 13 half-brothers and sisters from 4 different mothers (5 including mine). Damn my father is a stud.
    Rebel6666: What the hell!!! That is what I call a reconstituted family

    Posted by Eire_emirald

    Girls with brown eyes do it for me.

    I have green/blue eyes with weird rare golden rings around my pupils that I inherited from my dadís side.

    I have messy brown hair that is wavy sometimes and bordering on curly other times.

    I like my guitar.

    I like my piano.

    I like my spuds.

    I once punched a bird in my final year in school for no reason other than it was flying straight towards a friend of mine, thatís how I am remembered by the young first and seconds years now. "The guy who punched the bird
    "


    Rebel6666: I love to quote this guy always makes me laugh with heís weird posts.

    Posted by Borissomone

    I need to shave, but haven't.

    Have rage issues.

    Listen to the Beastie Boys.

    Listen to classical music.

    Have seen a few dead people.

    A friend of many and of none.

    Eat 14 weetbix everyday

    Rebel6666: If you think his post is weird have a look at his avatarÖGeezz. Hint: Post number 49

    Posted by Ace_general

    Random facts about me:

    Snice I've had a concussion I can see really well in the dark and am horrible at remembering names

    I Right now im listening to down with the sickness by Disturbed

    I F-ing love to hunt

    I F-ing love football even more and play Nose-guard and offensive tackle

    I'm over 6'2 and 240 and am a sophomore in highschool

    I wrestle heavyweight

    I've played total war off and on since '02

    My older brother is a developer at apple

    My other older brother is disabled

    Right now Im in drivers ed

    Im trying to learn how to do skins with GIMP

    My PC's hardrive crashed


    Posted by Cuchulainn

    I am a pathological liar.

    A bad speller.

    A Drunkard.

    A Smoker.

    A Schadenfreude-er.

    And several other things.
    Rebel6666: Talking about bad habit I think that there is no other lower than him, to top that heís a Citizen wow the Curia must have been desperate to enrol him a bit like the Romans did when they were taking anyone under their flag lollÖ.

    Ok so this sums up some of the quotes that I found good, you can just click on the link that is the name of the thread upper if you want to add youíre Secrets.

    Wow now my second thread really caught my eye maybe because I never smoked but I didnít knew that they had invented Electronic Cigarettes???

    Electronic Cigarettes

    Posted by the OP Dunecat

    Well, I haven't had a real cigarette in a month now, but I want to try out those electronic vapour cigarettes.

    Any advice on which model to get? What flavours are best?


    Rebel6666: Wow there is also models, I wonder if BMW makes any more luxurious models?

    Posted by Xomiac

    Electronic cigarettes? Soon we will have tofu drugs.


    Posted by Alkarin

    How about this, donít smoke?
    Rebel6666: Now those two I love their replies.

    Reply by Dunecat

    It's smoking with only the problems of nicotine consumption.

    When I see someone smoking I want to plant my lips on them and suck the smoke right out of their lungs. This fixes that.


    Posted by MP0295

    The sales lady at a kiosk for this tried to sell me one at the mall.... Iím 15 loll. I and my friend just said we wanted steam pipes and walked away


    Rebel6666: Where is this boy parents??

    Posted by Gambit

    I'd imagine it's not dangerous to others but I bet restaurants will still not let you do it since it still counts as smoking.

    Damn regulations!

    Final comment from Dunecat

    It's not smoke, it's vapour. Nothing is being burned and then the particles sucked into your lungs.

    Ecigs I've heard can give far better hits than normal cigs, but if you don't smoke, don't try ecigs. I bet the stuff would knock your lights out. I myself am probably going to get a good kick at first even though I smoked for a few years.

    Oh and they are outlawed in Australia.
    Rebel6666: I hope Iím not the only one that didnít knew about this

    My next thread is called: The quality of TWC, this thread caught a lot of attention mine as well, letís see what happened.

    Posted by Hubžt

    I'm just curious; do you think that the quality of TWC (threads, posts, discussions) has been on a steady decline lately?


    Edit. No bashing/flaming/spamming please.

    Rebel6666: I have Bolded the edit part of the op because IMO I think that he is looking just for what he didnít want by saying this.

    Posted by Unorthodox

    The same. This site always sucked.
    Rebel6666: For a guy that has 8000 posts maybe you should just leave and keep your spamming comments for another forumÖ. Letís called a crusade on you and you will feel the wrath of the Catholics

    Posted by Gambit

    I'd say with my coming thereís been a dramatic increase in awesome.

    And hookers.
    Rebel6666: Hookers? Where let me know I havenít seen anyÖÖ..

    Posted by

    Eventually it will decline, all good things must come to an end, however its not this day.....

    TWC will always be my first Total war website and last.
    Rebel6666: Now there is a good comment the first one I saw, except for the OP in 20 postsÖ.

    Posted by Octy

    It's gone down considerably in the last five years, yes.
    Rebel6666: Now this guy I can trust because he has 9000 posts so I assume he was here for a while.

    Posted by Dunecat

    It's become just another "gaming" forum.

    It's sad, really. The cancer that is killing /*/- loser men obsessed with unfunny internet tropes- has spread to this site.

    There is too much spamming here. IMO it started with the release of ETW and the move to a completely horrible and tasteless forum design.

    The thing I am frustrated most about is the poor legislating decisions and TERRIBLE moderating standards being enforced. The Tribunal has lost its integrity. While before there was an acceptable moderating and administration team, now there is an incompetent one. Members hold office simply because they are good spammers, not because they are qualified for the position or fulfill their duties responsibly.
    Posted by Kamos the Red

    I wouldn't be quite that pessimistic, the site has pretty much always been average.
    Rebel6666: The results for the question: Do you think the quality TWC is on a decline??

    Yes: 42
    NO: 41
    The Same: 33


    What is your opinion on Suicide?

    Rebel6666: I wonít put in names here just because of the subject

    The OP says:

    I'd like to know everyone's opinion.
    My friend killed himself the other day.
    I find it rather selfish.



    Itís a part of human nature. While itís sad certainly, itís just the way things go. Some people just feel empty or emotionally destroyed and would rather not continue on. Personally I donít see it as selfish but people are entitled to feel that way.
    _______________________________________________

    I've had some serious bouts of depression. At some point the depression itself can drown your ability to think about others and the fact that pain takes time. Suicide can be a very consuming idea, different people do it for different reasons.

    People who choose suicide later in life like to prevent the experience of terminal illness and such have the right to choose this.

    People who are young and commit suicide, I would not say it is selfish. This may seem like a semantically difference but depression and other mental illness can reinforce a self-absorbed view of the world and life. Too many people are impulsive and choose to avoid the pain, memories and what not. The process of therapy is different for everyone, some people can pop out of their problems in a short time and others will never get real relief. Unfortunately suicide does leave behind a family and friends. Anger at your friendís choice is normal but I see it that people who choose suicide at a young age are not selfish but are making a mistake. They have not given life a chance yet; some people get lucky and do find happiness however fleeting it may be at times.

    Therapy=crap

    you have to put yourself in the situation of the person who killed themselves....some people its completely justified (in my opinion) and then with others, I agree. Are being selfish IE: OH MY MOM WONT LET ME TAKE THE CAR OUT TO A PARTY THAT IM GOING TO GET WASTED AT!! WAAHH!! *kill self*

    It is selfish, very selfish. I also find it cowardly. There will always be something to turn everything around. People don't value life as much anymore.


    I have been in a rough spot in my life where I contemplated suicide everyday. Two things kept me from even trying it; love of the people around me, and me being an atheist (we only have one life, and thereís nothing after death, and that scares me).
    Of course there are different circumstances. Most of the ones I hear about though, include young adolescents or adults that do not think of the consequences. Life just "sucks" for them. They only think of other people missing them, maybe a memorial in the yearbook, people taking time away from their lives to think about them, and not that once it's over, they won't be here to see that. In this way it is selfish and cowardly.

    But as is stated there are different cases, in which my opinion varies.

    Hope that makes sense, I'm tired

    I think everyone has the inherent right to live and die by their own wishes. If one feels that life is not worth living anymore, why should one stay alive in misery merely for ones family? If that has value for a person, then it would be a reason not to kill oneself, and if one would still commit suicide then obviously family wasn't enough of a reason to stay alive.

    In the end, everyone should decide for themselves how to live and die and no-one has the right to dictate that to others.
    Rebel6666: For ma Last thread I would like to say that I donít miss winterÖ

    I Miss Winter

    Posted by Nikos

    Beautiful refreshing clear days with no humidity where you can breath in the fresh clean air. The Dark, clear cold nights where the vault of heaven is above you and you can see all the stars. Rushing in and out of stores, the car because it's cold, a beautiful coating of snow on the ground. Fireplaces and the warm feeling of your home when you come in from the cold. I miss winter, and all it brings. Who's with me?



    Posted by Eggthief

    Freaking cold and slow traffic is what I have in mind when thinking of the winter.


    Posted by D.B. Cooper

    Summer is forever.

    Winter is dirty and COLD. My skin dries up and I have to run everywhere outside to prevent my fingers from going numb. I'm either breaking my back shovelling with huge snowfalls, or staring up at the gray sky and wondering when the sun will come out. I hate winter.
    Posted by Nissdruva

    Winter is quite fun the first 2-3 month but around February-March i start to pray for spring.

    Winter temperatures of around -5 c and with a 2-4 dm thick layer of snow is the standard for the part of Sweden i live in (Gavle, 180 km north of Stockholm). However occasionally we have huge snowfalls/snowstorms that can give us plenty of snow in just a couple of hours. The largest one to date occurred ten years ago with 1, 5 meters of snow over a night; I let the images speak for themselves.
    Posted by Rebel6666

    I hate winter, I live in Canada and we receive a lot of snow, this means after work I have to shovel at least for one hour, let me say that I hate winter and I van tell you this I swear a lot when I'm shovelling. In Canada, in the part where I live which is near Ottawa we receive around 40 inches of snow per time.

    Rebel6666: So to finish off this thread I have taken some pictures of that thread about winter. They make me want to be sick but here they are:








    So that is all for the Helios # 43 in the Thema Devia section, hope youíve enjoyed, see you next time.

    Rebel6666




    Very nice Rebal, do you want to know some ramdom facts about me? I'm underpaid, over worked, I hate my job, no girl friend, I own a flat I can't afford to live in (yet) and this month it's bills, bills and bills. Car tax is due, car service has to be done, MOT, insurnace £££'s. Spending money on staff I don't really care makes me very angry.

    Now I've got that of my chest prehaps a glance at our page 3 model will cheer me up, now before Iíve only been using film starts however this time Iíve ventured into the world sport, tennis to be exact. Enjoy.


    Page 3

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

    Tennis senastion Maria Sharpova. I'm not gonig to bother with some stupid pun here, jut let yourself be memorised by the this Russian beauty.




    That's all for this edition, take care.

    Freddie
    Last edited by Freddie; August 06, 2009 at 11:18 AM.

  3. #3
    Silent Assassin's Avatar TO LIVE IS TO DIE
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    Default Re: Helios 43 - To Whom the Death Tolls

    Great work to all!!!
    TIME TO DIE!!!! Proud Son of Viking Prince

  4. #4
    jimkatalanos's Avatar Nerevarine
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    Default Re: Helios 43 - To Whom the Death Tolls

    Nice.
    Ερωτηθεὶς τι ποτ' αυτώ περιγέγονεν εκ φιλοσοφίας, έφη, ęΤο ανεπιτάκτως ποιείν ά τινες διά τον από των νόμων φόβον ποιούσιν.


    Under the professional guidance of TWC's Zone expert Garbarsardar
    Patron of Noble Savage, Dimitri_Harkov, MasterOfThessus, The Fuzz, aja5191, Furin, neoptolemos, AnthoniusII, Legio, agisilaos, Romanos IV, Taiji, Leo, Jom, Jarlaxe






    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 
    The universe is change; our life is what our thoughts make it.


    The soul becomes dyed with the color of its thoughts.


    If you desire to be good, begin by believing that you are wicked.


    We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.


    οὕτως ἀταλαίπωρος τοῖς πολλοῖς ἡ ζήτησις τῆς ἀληθείας, καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ ἑτοῖμα μᾶλλον τρέπονται.


    Questions are not necessarily there to be answered, but possibly there to inspire thinking.


    Nullius addictus iurare in verba magistri, - quo me cumque rapit tempestas, deferor hospes.


    If mind is common to us, then also the reason, whereby we are reasoning beings, is common. If this be so, then also the reason which enjoins what is to be done or left undone is common. If this be so, law also is common; if this be so, we are citizens; if this be so, we are partakers in one constitution; if this be so, the Universe is a kind of commonwealth.


    Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.


    There is no chaos in the world, only complexity.
    Knowledge of the complex is wisdom.
    From wisdom of the world comes wisdom of the self.
    Mastery of the self is mastery of the world. Loss of the self is the source of suffering.
    Suffering is a choice, and we can refuse it.
    It is in our power to create the world, or destroy it.


    Homo homini lupus est. Homo sacra res homini.


    When deeds speak, words are nothing.


    Sol lucet omnibus.


    You have power over your mind - not outside events. Realize this, and you will find strength.


    Neither should a ship rely on one small anchor, nor should life rest on a single hope.


    The only way to deal with an unfree world is to become so absolutely free that your very existence is an act of rebellion.


    Ο Νούς νοεί τον εαυτόν του ως κράτιστος και η νόησή του είναι της νοήσεως νόησις.


    'Nothing is true, everything is permitted.' is merely an observation of the nature of reality. To say that nothing is true, is to realize that the foundations of society are fragile, and that we must be the shepherds of our own civilization. To say that everything is permitted, is to understand that we are the architects of our actions, and that we must live with their consequences, whether glorious or tragic.

  5. #5
    Acco's Avatar Дијана
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    Default Re: Helios 43 - To Whom the Death Bell Tolls

    Great work guys!

  6. #6
    Heinz Guderian's Avatar *takes off trousers
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    Default Re: Helios 43 - To Whom the Death Bell Tolls

    i enjoyed. thanks guys.




  7. #7
    The Noble Lord's Avatar Ba'ath Party Knight
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    Default Re: Helios 43 - To Whom the Death Bell Tolls

    Nice work guys, nice work. I really enjoyed it.
    [IMG][/IMG]
    أسد العراق Asad al-Iraq
    KOSOVO IS SERBIA!!!
    Under the proud patronage of the magnificent Tzar


  8. #8
    y2day's Avatar TWC STORE NOW OPEN!
    Content Director Technical Staff Citizen

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    Default Re: Helios 43 - To Whom the Death Bell Tolls

    Nice read guys, just finished it up through lunch, now have to get back to work.

  9. #9
    cracks2's Avatar Kajiwara
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    Default Re: Helios 43 - To Whom the Death Bell Tolls

    Enjoyed the edition, good work.

  10. #10
    zznɟ ǝɥʇ's Avatar Centurio Primus Pilus
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    Default Re: Helios 43 - To Whom the Death Bell Tolls

    isn't it FOR whom the bell tolls?
    we are beautiful

    we are doomed

  11. #11
    Murakawa
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    Default Re: Helios 43 - To Whom the Death Bell Tolls

    hey it's really nice work..i really enjoyed.

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