Back again, and this time it's political.
So, what are the views on this subject here?
Personally I'm against a practice which was given as a reason for the U.S. invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Will anyone stick up for the Stars and Stripes?
Guantanamo Bay
Back again, and this time it's political.
So, what are the views on this subject here?
Personally I'm against a practice which was given as a reason for the U.S. invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Will anyone stick up for the Stars and Stripes?
"The Moving Finger Writes and having writ moves on nor all thy piety nor wit can lure it back to cancel even half a line nor all thy tears wash out a single word" (Omar Khayyam).
I think that probably my greatest achievement was introducing Ozymandias to these boards.
Campidoctor
Okay, I'm a little confused. The title of this thread is "Guantanamo Bay", and you're leading a discussion on the war in Afghanistan in general?
Any more detail?
Indefinitely Banned
I think he means that the coalition invaded Afghanistan on a basis of the Taleban's human rights abuses amoung other things but now the US does the exact same thing in Cuba. As if it's anything new.
Mr Common Sense
Yeah. Double standards are the hallmark of the world's greatest nation, wether it be the US in the latter half of this century, the British Empire before that, or so on, hypocrisy is rife and automatic with power. That's life: One rule for the powerful, another for the rest.
primus pater cunobelin erat; sum in patronicium imb39, domi wilpuri; Saint-Germain, MasterAdnin, Pnutmaster, Scorch, Blau&Gruen,
Ferrets54, Honeohvovohaestse, et Pallida Mors in patronicum meum sunt
Campidoctor
I have a hard time sympathizing with terrorists. Honest-to-god, if it were up to me they would have been killed on sight, instead of being imprisoned. Keep in mind who these people are - not a bunch of innocent Afghani families selling rugs in the marketplace, these are terrorists, murderers.
Wanted: Dead or Alive
all of them?
so those who were released, because they had nothing to do with terrorism, and got to tell us details about the treatment others or themselves received in Guantanamo Bay...
are terrorists as well?
Abu Graib..was tought to be a coincidence..
but more and more.. we get to hear some nasty stories from Afghanistan and Cuba.. I am not implying that every prisoner is being treated badly. However I think that the misbehaviours of US personnel and the amount of mistreatments causing in some cases even death, have been underestimated and seen to much as incidental.
Proud Patron of: Antea, Archer, Banzai Kamikaze, Dromikaites, Ldvs
Aut Viam Inveniam Aut Faciam
Campidoctor
I didn't quite understand that sentence, it's a tad garbled but i'll try and answer. Yes, even if they were treated badly they are still terrorists. I believe that's what you were asking, if not, could you rephrase?
?
The exact same thing? Are you serious?Originally Posted by Gubbins
Im sorry, but I dont think making someone uncomfortable by cranking up the AIR CONDITIONING (or turning it off) can really be compared to what was going on in places like Afghanistan and Iraq.
"Its only 70 degrees in my cell! Torture!"
(Patron of Lord Rahl)
Indefinitely Banned
I think the point is that the exsistance of places like Guantanamo blurs the lines between us and the terrorists.
Indefinitely Banned
The same thing as they're both human rights abuses. I was not specific.
I know, I'm not advocating that terrorists shouldn't shot at dawn or something else, I'm just against the general torture carried out by the americans at guantanamo.
"The Moving Finger Writes and having writ moves on nor all thy piety nor wit can lure it back to cancel even half a line nor all thy tears wash out a single word" (Omar Khayyam).
I think that probably my greatest achievement was introducing Ozymandias to these boards.
?
Uh huh......Human rights abuses.........
You do realize you just put things like hanging people from meat hooks, removal of tongues, hands, etc....in the same category as AIR CONDITIONING ADJUSTMENT, right?!??????!?? I must be commiting a human rights abuse as we speak, since my A/C is blasting cold air into my face..........
(Patron of Lord Rahl)
Dux Limitis
i dunno about that meh, gitmo is nothing but a torture hell hole. It shoudl be shut down! You do relaize they let, get this, women read harry potter! WOMEN READING HARRY POTTER! Not even tha taliban were that bad. And that's not it, they call the "detainees" grumpy. I said it, grumpy. I even heard that they made a smiley face mask and put it on one of the "alledged" hijackers. They then proceeded to tell him that nobody loved him. Shut down that gulag right now!
Ducenarius
Most of them were captured on the battlefeild. Also a lot of them that were released were again captured on the battlefeild. Also in the Al Quida training manual they are told to lie about how they are treated when caputured.
Semper Fi
I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people and I expect the same from them.
John Bernard Books
Proud Member of the TWC Plebians/Peasants
I refer to electrodes on genitals, and other torture such as beatings, forced sexual contact etc...The exact same thing? Are you serious?
Im sorry, but I dont think making someone uncomfortable by cranking up the AIR CONDITIONING (or turning it off) can really be compared to what was going on in places like Afghanistan and Iraq.
"Its only 70 degrees in my cell! Torture!"
"The Moving Finger Writes and having writ moves on nor all thy piety nor wit can lure it back to cancel even half a line nor all thy tears wash out a single word" (Omar Khayyam).
I think that probably my greatest achievement was introducing Ozymandias to these boards.
Mr Common Sense
I think he in fact refers to those who have been freed and sent back to their country of choice as non-terrorists, eg some of the British in there. Yeah, they're a real danger to the public, those normal people are. Suspicion was not good enough grounds for arrest and detention for that sort of period not long ago; now no-one bats an eyelid because its all in the name of protection from terrorists. What does that imply? We are all terrified, the very effect that terrorists wish to achieve; we are all less free, another of the effects thy want; and our governments are shifting more toward the Soviet-style dictatorship, in terms of random detention. That really measures up with defending freedom: Remove it to defend it.
primus pater cunobelin erat; sum in patronicium imb39, domi wilpuri; Saint-Germain, MasterAdnin, Pnutmaster, Scorch, Blau&Gruen,
Ferrets54, Honeohvovohaestse, et Pallida Mors in patronicum meum sunt
Domesticus
Theft is a crimes and murder is a crime, torture is torture is torture.
Indefinitely Banned
Are you positive that's all that happens at Guantanamo?
?
Are you positive anything happens at Guantanamo at all? Like, for instance:
Are you sure that happens? Or are you just taking some guy's word for it?electrodes on genitals, and other torture such as beatings, forced sexual contact etc...
(Patron of Lord Rahl)
Mr Common Sense
Yeah, those people tied up and detained in open-air cramped cells really care about the airconditioning, when they are in solitary confinement for inordinate periods of time. Or possibly the fact that those released, by the US as non-terrorists and this is the paranoid US we are talking about, have claimed they were tortured. Sounds like a real nice holiday in Cuba, doesn't it.
And you seem to take peoples word for it that it doesn't. Whose? The very people in whose interests it is to not allow it to seem to exist.
primus pater cunobelin erat; sum in patronicium imb39, domi wilpuri; Saint-Germain, MasterAdnin, Pnutmaster, Scorch, Blau&Gruen,
Ferrets54, Honeohvovohaestse, et Pallida Mors in patronicum meum sunt
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