BCR 1.05 Diplomacy

[TriforceV]

If you prefer to disregard what I wrote and insult my intelligence instead, that's fine.

I on the other hand find you a very smart person and as such I am sure you understand very well where I am coming from, even if you keep denying it in front of everyone else. I also understand very well that it is hard for you to lose or admit that you are/were wrong, and you are correct that it is a two-way street, as I am very similar to you in this regard.

However, the point of these hotseats as I understand it is not to clash my ego vs. ygs that make it less and less fun for me (I cannot speak of anyone else, though I have a feeling most of the other players are not enjoying it too much either, as demonstrated by the constant complaints). I just hope that you will find a way to administer the other one, which just started, better. I will also try to conduct myself better there as well. I know you can, and I am going to leave it at this for now.

When someone here is interested in seriously discussing some of my decisions in this hotseat, then let me know, and I will be happy to explain myself again.

I think you misunderstand,
When I said your harder to convince then a rock of intelligence(sentience), I was referring to your extreme stubbornness and lack of seeing reason, as demonstrated by your unrelenting stubbornness in owning a favorable diplomatic agenda where there is none for us both.. It had nothing to do with intelligence, which is in my opinion, exemplified in your militaristic tenacity..

This also explains in itself why i choose not to challenge your past arguments, and it will bear no fruit.

Furthermore, Ego is for the benefit of one's self, the illusion of grandeur within, where there is none.
Right or wrong, for two powers to reconcile they need to bury the hatchet.... For me, my hand has been extended upon an olive branch of peace treaty for some time now,
I only wait for your to finally swallow your pride, my good friend

[Kavhan Isbul]

and also... What are you talking about that I subbed Roman's last turn? I most certainly did not, The Roman Player played himself.

My post was addressed to Triforce, who played the Romans last turn.

Here is what happened: I came up with the idea that the only way to save the Romans would be to make them a vassal, and of course, I suggested they become vassal to me (obvious benefits to me). I shared this plan with Triforce, who suggested that they have a better chance if they become vassal to him. I decided not to fight over this and agreed, but then of course he backed out because of your deal where you tried to pay him off to leave you alone.
Then I remained Helmersen's only option for protection, but Helmersen made a small mistake during his turn. From before, there was a scroll open in which I offered him a ceasefire and 3,000 florints, which was the payment me and him agreed upon for Trebizond (now you know why he took his spearmen outside of the castle - it was agreed, and I did not simply attack him). Anyway, before he could accept to become a vassal, he accepted the ceasefire scroll, which basically eliminated the other option. When learning this, Triforce quickly replayed his turn and claimed to me and Helmersen that this is not a violation of the rules, since "Technically Helm can redo his turn, since your next it wouldn't be too much of a hassal right?" and then to avoid any complications over this, "since I can't post on the forums as it might raise questions of my involvement, So i've posted the turn at a secure secretive location in which you can retrieve it and play the turn.. here is the location http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...48#post2890948". The turn is still there as I am typing this.
So there you go - the last turn of the Romans was played by Triforce.

[Kavhan Isbul]

I only wait for your to finally swallow your pride, my good friend

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
Here is where I and Kaizer differ - as I warned you, I cannot negotiate separately of my allies, now that they are involved. It is not a matter of pride, but of reliability. If any realistic chances of me winning are gone, I'd rather help those who have helped me. After all, if I am to lose now, at least as far as playing is concerned, I have little to be ashamed of.
Besides, last time we had an agreement, it lasted for only a few hours, and I was not the one who broke it.

[Kaizer Merlox]

Still, I have to say, The Romans were doomed any ways, They only had... 1 spy at max, (Since they were what, 70k in debt?)

He did a good job, but i slipped a few victories with spies. something that the romans lacked. I captured his settlements while his massive armies were beseiging my front, and boom. He died.

To the newest point. Remember that this is a game, And the game is very boring if you get wiped out in 1 war. Agree to a # of turns that both parties agreed. (one of the things that you didn't do with me.) Accept the defeat or what ever you call it, rebuild. As it is, Both sides are getting completely obliterated. It would be stupid for me to continue a war if Jerusalem made peace. So I would want to call peace as well. (Recoup + Rebuild + MoneyMaking time).

As it is, All you ever did was offer me a dumb little treaty that said "Cease fire." "We'll give you sinope" I never heard any other details besides that. So what idiot wouldn't accept that and rebuild his forces??? Now, if you PMed me a message as well saying "We wish to make this 5, 10, what ever turns. this is what we'll offer, It normally means I will gtfo your borders with my assassins. and try keeping military units to a low, Do you accept?" and That would of been a COMPLETELY different story, but seeing georgian assassins in my lands, only pissed me off to no end to continue the war.

So, If you can make a real treaty this time, and Talk to Triforce, I think we can all agree to a cease fire. A time of peace. Do you agree? If so, I would say we get working on it right away, because at this rate, things can only get better between us... ^^

And we might be able to sit back and enjoy a battle maybe to the far east, as they are deprived of wars. lol

[Kavhan Isbul]

Kaizer, as soon as you destroyed my army in the fort north of Sivas and besieged the castle, it was pretty much over for any chance of an alliance between us, and it was a matter of whether we fight it out now or later. Obviously, I wanted to concentrate on the KOJ, thus my ceasefire proposal. I knew though that you would eventually attack, and I assumed you would do it as soon as you build ships to counter my fleet, assasin or no assasin (and the spy killed happened to be in my land, just for the record). It was not unexpected. The previous attack however was completely unexpected, but how could I know that despite your claims to neutrality, you had a secret agreement with Triforce? You managed to play it very well and trick me, but this is like a wild card, which you can only play once. And you played yours.

[Kaizer Merlox]

No, I know there was a spy in your land, because I killed it going toward Ani and burning the whole city down. I am talking about the Assassins next to my fort which made be furious. and jump onto the band wagon with triforce.

Now, What I am asking for is peace. Trust me. I can keep up this attack if I want to, but myself have to do rebuilding of my cities for economical reasons. (hence some one burned down my old capital.)

As well as being driven in rage to make sure you wouldn't be hurting my boarders again, Yes. And I feel Rather satisfied now for burning down your city Ani, funny now, isn't it?
But now that the rage of mine is gone, If you are trying to seek a cease fire with triforce, If Jerusalem declares peace, I'll declare peace. Since there is no more reason to fight. As i've obtained my justice through my last turn.

Now, I would Ask you again kindly to at least attempt to make an honest effort for a peace treaty, using words. Talk to me, and not just be silent and send me a damn diplomat. and I just might be more reasonable, Also, please hear of my Demands of ceasefire, before you think your cease fire is ok. (Keeping assassins at my forts is NOT ok.)

[Kavhan Isbul]

Kaizer, I am not sure you understand me - I have nothing against you personally, but in the game, I just do not trust you for anything. I have already discovered the hard way that there is little point in negotiating when the other party has no intention to keep promises and agreements.
There will not be peace between us in this campaign, and you should take every measure to destroy me as quickly as you can, if you want a final resolution. You are just discovering that once you lose someone's trust, diplomacy is no logner an option, and it is not me being stubborn, but you being utterly unreliable.
If burning down my settlements is what alleviates your rage issues, I would consider it a small price to pay in the name of society - I'd rather have Ani burnt down than have you walk into a classroom with 2 9mm-s and go on a shooting rampage (relax, this is meant to be a joke).

[Kaizer Merlox]

Originally Posted by TriforceV
"I only wait for your to finally swallow your pride, my good friend"

Well, I am sad to say this, but you need to do exactly what Triforce has asked. For what I have seen in you. You have no intention of keeping peace either, Having assassins Killing off my spies in MY town and MY forts. That doesn't look so peaceful. Now does it?

You clearly showed aggressive movements toward me, and not saying a word, I was forced to to a pre-emptive strike before your navy could land on my lands and attack me, like you have done many times.

Have I ever gone back on a deal? ofcourse not. Every thing I have done was perfect. Since you never said what was the rules. I decided to make my own. Yes, We had an agreement at one point. but then you refused to give me my old settlements, That kinda made me... some what upset, Using me to attack Triforce, thats low. So I redeemed myself, but getting rid of you on my borders, and getting back my forts. (Yes, You tried to bribe me, and didn't follow up with the payment, so in my honest opinion, you got what you deserved.)

You took a worthless little city, and asked for just a "CeaseFire" that could be years... months, or even days.... What I am asking you to do. Is Talk. And talk like a person would that wants to have a purpose in life. Make us happy, by meeting us half way in this. As it is, Triforce, and now I, have been asking for a very reasonable cease fire term, but you have rejected every thing... We urge you to try harder at this, that you lack very badly at.

As it is, I have been true to my word ever since, I have never "Betrayed" you, in count We have never been allies. We have been constantly at war / ceasefire due to your silly little actions which want me to go destroy something of yours. If any thing, You have lied to me, which makes me rather upset. But the people who YOU attacked, are giving you a second choice. So use it for the sake of making this game interesting.

Regards-

Your good and old friend Merlox. =p

[Cyrus Kabir]

I wouldn't go as far as calling you a slave Cyrus,
However it's quite clear from your actions, even before the buisness with the Abbasids that you had it in for me, when there was no logical reason to do so... seeing as your far from the conflct, and have nothing to gain by joining in this war against me.

Do you really think that I will send a stack to attack you?! Well Triforce, I thought you would be a bit smarter and know what I really want to do with the stack...
Of course there are some grudges of the last hotseat, but you are, like you yourself said, too far away from me that I could do anything against you, because of this I joined the war against you and because if you would win the war against Georgia there aren't any other great Empires in your way to expand in the middle-east. See it as a preemptive step to avoid a dominant position of KoJ in this hotseat. Furthermore it would be more interesting hotseat when you are destroyed and Kaizer stays alone like a baby crying for his mummy Triforce.

Hmmm... How do I say... How can you claim that the Abbasids were getting too close, when you are Seljuk Turk lands???

Well, actually the lands are persian, otherelse this territory wouldn't be called "Persia" .

The Iranian plateau, also known as the Persian plateau[1][2] is a geological formation in Southwest Asia, Southern Asia and the Caucasus region. It is the part of the Eurasian Plate wedged between the Arabian and Indian plates, situated between the Zagros mountains to the west, the Caspian Sea and the Kopet Dag to the north, the Hormuz Strait and Arabian Sea to the south and Hindu Kush to the east.
As a historical region, it includes Parthia, Media and eastern Persia, the heartlands of Greater Persia (mainly Iran, Afghanistan, and Pakistan west of the River Indus).[3]

And if you also call me Persia so !you, Kaizer,! make clear that this land belong to me. At the end Kaizer, you are helping me to legitimate my war against the Abbasids

A:You did not do a thing to help destroy the Seljuks, yet you say you have more claim to his lands than the Georgians and Abbasids who killed him off? lol.

Seljuks? Well the Seljuks got in a suicide mission and their destruction was nothing like a "oh"!

and to me being a slave thing.
I didn't know attacking Georgia due to all of the Personal Vendetta I have to do so was being a slave to Triforce, If I was. I would be sending him all of my military units to fight you... Because we are all scared due to if Persia wins the war, the whole world will be in danger! Gasp! This is between Georgia and I, don't need your nose in western affairs, so if you want to. Please send the stacks you were going to send to jerusalem, to me so I can kill them off.

Kaizer... think what you want, but in my eyes you are a little snake, waiting in the shadow of the greater Snake Triforce for a good possibility to have a bit of the prey.

[Commander Ruunu]

Some people just can't be trusted. I learned that long time ago. Only couple of ones are worth trusting, who won't betray till he end.

[Kaizer Merlox]

I would never trust Wikipedia... >_>;;;

and still sore. huh? =p

[garato]

Cyrus,I was suprised when you renamed the Khwarezm to Persia.Don't argue by historical bordiers of the huge boundless empire.
At this case I have more right to call my self Persian.(Babylonia and other regions were the center of the empire)It's silly.In Khwarezm region lived different people with different launguges.Moreover, Ihave been a lot times in the area.This ancient region,after falling in Chingiz khan invasion time became official part of Baghdadian Caliphat.But in fact they had independant kingdoms,later the center had became Samarkand.Gazni has more persian infunece-Tajiks and afgans have just similar lauguages but different history and culture.In Central Asia the language has the same origin with Turks.But it would be completly silly to try to join them in similar nation.They had absolutly different culture and history.
It's like if you call kirgiz or tajiks must be russian because they had been a part of Russian empire...

[Cyrus Kabir]

Cyrus,I was suprised when you renamed the Khwarezm to Persia.Don't argue by historical bordiers of the huge boundless empire.
At this case I have more right to call my self Persian.(Babylonia and other regions were the center of the empire)It's silly.In Khwarezm region lived different people with different launguges.Moreover, Ihave been a lot times in the area.This ancient region,after falling in Chingiz khan invasion time became official part of Baghdadian Caliphat.But in fact they had independant kingdoms,later the center had became Samarkand.Gazni has more persian infunece-Tajiks and afgans have just similar lauguages but different history and culture.In Central Asia the language has the same origin with Turks.But it would be completly silly to try to join them in similar nation.They had absolutly different culture and history.
It's like if you call kirgiz or tajiks must be russian because they had been a part of Russian empire...

You have no right to claim the legacy of the old ancient Persian Empire - the Khwarezm do, cause they are the descendents of the Parthians who also lived in west central asia and from there conquered Greko-Bactria and the Seleucid Empire. They made Sogdia to the main province of the Parthian Empire and the important cities were Merv, Nisa and Khiva. Moreover the Parthians were also Zorastrian and spoke a persian dialect. The Abbasids however expanded into Persia and adopted the persian court ceremonial and administrative organisation of the Sassanids, but never saw themselves as the descendants or renevator of the Achamenian Empire, whether their Empire had the same dimension. The Abbasids were proud about their Arab origin and tried to "arabise" Persia, which clearly failed. Furthermore we are in the time before Dschingis Khan, so Sogdia, where the Khwarezm are from, was pure persian!
All things considered, the Khwarezmians are the descendants of the old Sogdians and Parthians and see themselves as the renevator of the old Parthian = Persian Empire!

[Kaizer Merlox]

Thats like saying we need to all gtfo, as this used to be all Alexander's empire... Or roman empire, It doens't work like that Cyrus you dumb dumb.

And isn't there some kinda quote on METWII?

Something like.. "The Most dis-advantage peace is better than the must just war?" Or something in the lines.

[Commander Ruunu]

Don't offend people in any way Kaizer and why are you frequently double-posting?? Remember constructive criticism.

[Cyrus Kabir]

Thats like saying we need to all gtfo, as this used to be all Alexander's empire... Or roman empire, It doens't work like that Cyrus you dumb dumb.

And isn't there some kinda quote on METWII?

Something like.. "The Most dis-advantage peace is better than the must just war?" Or something in the lines.

I was not talking with you - and why are you insulting me?! If you don't know anything about history then please stfu and don't spam the forum!

[Kaizer Merlox]

I said dumb dumb. Wow, Taking that alittle too much at heart. Musta hit a nerve.

and cyrus, this is a diplomacy. And I am still trying to get the point to cease fire. even though it is like how triforce said.

If you want to take a private message, please do so. but if you do diplomacy, You and your little argument about how you don't any thing about Alexander. There for you don't really have an argument. Please don't tell me to leave a public forum about diplomacy that a game I am in. You are rather rude.

So please chill out, take some tranqz because it seems you need some, and have some fun. It's what hotseats are. =p

(Also, I would respect if you would be so kind to answer your PM about me, As it is, I am your natural ally in BC 2.02 with special rules. Unless you are holding the same grudge that you are doing in this game. (Which I think you are) and going to attack me for no reason most likely, But I tend to have more faith in people than I shouldn't. I'll send it again.)

[TriforceV]

Guys, While I said this thread is good for complaining or what have you... I draw the line at outright insults,
Please refrain from doing it thanks

[Cyrus Kabir]

I said dumb dumb. Wow, Taking that alittle too much at heart. Musta hit a nerve.

and cyrus, this is a diplomacy. And I am still trying to get the point to cease fire. even though it is like how triforce said.

If you want to take a private message, please do so. but if you do diplomacy, You and your little argument about how you don't any thing about Alexander. There for you don't really have an argument. Please don't tell me to leave a public forum about diplomacy that a game I am in. You are rather rude.

So please chill out, take some tranqz because it seems you need some, and have some fun. It's what hotseats are. =p

(Also, I would respect if you would be so kind to answer your PM about me, As it is, I am your natural ally in BC 2.02 with special rules. Unless you are holding the same grudge that you are doing in this game. (Which I think you are) and going to attack me for no reason most likely, But I tend to have more faith in people than I shouldn't. I'll send it again.)

I love you too

[Kaizer Merlox]

there we go, nice to see the love. XD