King of Swaziland

[Dromikaites]

1) We can only hope, but they keep putting it off, so I'm not too confident.
2) We have to force a solution on Israel. It already covers an area of Palestine it was given, how can it ask to be allowed to displace more people? I never understood what its claim on Gaza was; possibly never will. but if it pulls out unilaterally, unless certain settlers want to stay that is, then I think a solution might be reached. Of course, the specific settlers will have to peacefully cohabit and have to buy the land in Gaza from the original owners, but there we go.

The Israeli army & police will remove by force any settler if needed. Gaza, the West Bank and the Golan heights were occupied as the result of the wars and were used as buffer zones.

[Tom Paine]

When was the last war? The sixties? And against Iraq they didn't exactly work. no, I think that it is just a matter of land. And forcible removal of settlers just creates resentment, I think integration would be a better policy.

[Dromikaites]

And forcible removal of settlers just creates resentment, I think integration would be a better policy.

It does, but since too much blood was spilled, it is best for now to remove the Jews from the lands granted to the Palestinians by the UN decision of 1946. The only thorny issue still left unsolved is the city of Jerusalem. UN had it divided, something that was bound to not work on the long run. Therefore integration has to be tested in Jerusalem...

[Tom Paine]

So. if it works there, we can expand it? Good idea. But splitting a city worked (ish) in Berlin.

[Dromikaites]

So. if it works there, we can expand it? Good idea. But splitting a city worked (ish) in Berlin.

Yes, I think that once the settlers are removed from Gaza and the West Bank it would be very dificult for the Palestinian Authority not to prosecute the terrorists. It would be more dificult for the terrorists to moraly justify their acts, even though crazzy people can always be found...

Regarding the division of Berlin, it was done by force, against the will of the citizens of either side. Jerusalem, on the other hand, was divided because the Arabs wanted it divided. The problem with this division was the Jewish holly places were in the Arab part of the city. Why? Because they cannot be separated phisycally from the Muslim holly places. For this reason Jerusalem can't be a divided city.

[Tom Paine]

Well, yes. Berlin is a bad example; it was not only divided by force but kept apart agressively. Berlin Wall and all that. Jerusalem must become a template integrated area.

[Epirote]

Well, yes. Berlin is a bad example; it was not only divided by force but kept apart agressively. Berlin Wall and all that. Jerusalem must become a template integrated area.

If the wall stops all those suicide attacks which flame the region and the whole world I give approval.
Israel must graduatelly pull it`s settlers and Palestinian authorities must restrain the militants.
Can`t have the TV showing all those horrible scenes every single week.

[Tom Paine]

If the wall stops all those suicide attacks which flame the region and the whole world I give approval.
Israel must graduatelly pull it`s settlers and Palestinian authorities must restrain the militants.
Can`t have the TV showing all those horrible scenes every single week.

Segregation does not exactly work. Berlin, 1989 for example: the wall went down to much cheering and shouting from both sides. The wall will not stop them, just make it harder, but also give more incentive. So while fewer as a percentage get through more are trying, so about the same number happen, plus you ge attacks on the wall. I'd try to go toward integrating, which when attempted has been a success (for example teams of Israeli and Palestinian, as in from the PA rather than Israeli, children).

[Epirote]

Segregation does not exactly work. Berlin, 1989 for example: the wall went down to much cheering and shouting from both sides. The wall will not stop them, just make it harder, but also give more incentive. So while fewer as a percentage get through more are trying, so about the same number happen, plus you ge attacks on the wall. I'd try to go toward integrating, which when attempted has been a success (for example teams of Israeli and Palestinian, as in from the PA rather than Israeli, children).

integrating
You keep mentioning this word very frequent.
Is this some kind of recepy for peace?

OHHHH

It is Wishfull Thinking.

[Tom Paine]

integrating
You keep mentioning this word very frequent.
Is this some kind of recepy for peace?

OHHHH

It is Wishfull Thinking.

Yes, I mention the word integrating frequently, because I believe it is a better idea than segregating, which doesn't seem to work. Ever. Or can you tell me one time where it has done, for a long time period, peacefully?

[Epirote]

Yes, I mention the word integrating frequently, because I believe it is a better idea than segregating, which doesn't seem to work. Ever. Or can you tell me one time where it has done, for a long time period, peacefully?

Well making walls and borders can solve that problem.
But in mixed areas there should be joined goverments.

[Tom Paine]

Well making walls and borders can solve that problem.
But in mixed areas there should be joined goverments.

And we are talking about a basically mixed area. Walls and borders solve nothing; like I said, look at Berlin. It just makes it harder and more frequent.

[Epirote]

And we are talking about a basically mixed area. Walls and borders solve nothing; like I said, look at Berlin. It just makes it harder and more frequent.

Berlin Wall was to seperate the same people in 2 pieces.

Most borders and walls are there to keep ethnicities in their own corner so there won`t be hot episodes that will go chaotic in the rest of the population.

Comparing Berlin Wall and The wall in Israel is wrong.

[Tom Paine]

Berlin Wall was to seperate the same people in 2 pieces.

Most borders and walls are there to keep ethnicities in their own corner so there won`t be hot episodes that will go chaotic in the rest of the population.

Belgian-France border for instance? Borders are about governments not people.

Comparing Berlin Wall and The wall in Israel is wrong.

Both were designed to keep people from entering an area. In one case, East=>West; the other, Palestine=>Israel. Both have the same purpose and justification (defence, one from the West, the other from terrorists). The difference is in the era and the builders.

[Epirote]

Belgian-France border for instance? Borders are about governments not people.

Both were designed to keep people from entering an area. In one case, East=>West; the other, Palestine=>Israel. Both have the same purpose and justification (defence, one from the West, the other from terrorists). The difference is in the era and the builders.

Nope.

You have Berlin Wall where Soviet Union wants to break up the Germans in 2.

Then you have Israel with 2 hostile people toward eachother and one side wanting to build a barrier to ease attacks from the other side.

Not the same thing.

[Tom Paine]

Nope.

You have Berlin Wall where Soviet Union wants to break up the Germans in 2.

Then you have Israel with 2 hostile people toward eachother and one side wanting to build a barrier to ease attacks from the other side.

Germany was already split, just not physically so. And what does said splitting do, except create more attacks and mean that many happen on crossing points in the wall rather than in Israel proper. Plus even the Berlin Wall had people smuggled across it, though it was enforced on both sides (rather than just one as the Israel-Palestine Wall will be).

[Epirote]

Germany was already split, just not physically so. And what does said splitting do, except create more attacks and mean that many happen on crossing points in the wall rather than in Israel proper. Plus even the Berlin Wall had people smuggled across it, though it was enforced on both sides (rather than just one as the Israel-Palestine Wall will be).

Germany.
Splited by the USSR and the US.
The Germans didn`t want that but were imposed a wall and a country seperated in 2.

Israel.
I am not saying it will help bring peace.
Just that it would ease attacks.
And that it will help somehow to the whole peace in the region.

[Tom Paine]

Israel.
I am not saying it will help bring peace.
Just that it would ease attacks.
And that it will help somehow to the whole peace in the region.

Will it ease attacks? I can't see how, it will just move them to the wall. And the peace is a far too fragile one already to risk it.

[Epirote]

Will it ease attacks? I can't see how, it will just move them to the wall. And the peace is a far too fragile one already to risk it.

Attacks on checkpoints happen even now.

With a wall.
The attacks will move all in the wall manned with military but not in the civilians.

[Tom Paine]

Attacks on checkpoints happen even now.

With a wall.
The attacks will move all in the wall manned with military but not in the civilians.

Assuming a) the checkpoints and wall are not bypassed and b) that the checkpoints are not breached and destroyed.