Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 126

Thread: King of Swaziland

  1. #81
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Silver Spring, Maryland (inside the Beltway)
    Posts
    33,698

    Default

    The Palestinian Problem is a damn big problem to solve; the murders, the attacks, must be answered for. Otherwise what point is there in letting them in except to say, "We will accept them because we like them; but we don't like you"? Israel has to fully punish perpetraitors of these crimes before we can accept them, fairly.

  2. #82

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Squeakus Maximus
    The Palestinian Problem is a damn big problem to solve; the murders, the attacks, must be answered for. Otherwise what point is there in letting them in except to say, "We will accept them because we like them; but we don't like you"? Israel has to fully punish perpetraitors of these crimes before we can accept them, fairly.
    Well, the complete withdrawal from the Palestinian lands will remove any pretexts the terrorists might invoke for their actions. Once the withdrawal completed, the "freedom fighters" lose all legitimacy.

  3. #83
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Silver Spring, Maryland (inside the Beltway)
    Posts
    33,698

    Default

    Until then, however, the Israeli forces will have to work hard not to give them any more excuses, although they have quite enough already. How can one distinguish which are the terrorists and which the disciplined army? State sponsorship, that's how. The Israeli army is basically another group of terrorists.

  4. #84
    Epirote
    Guest

    Default

    HELLLOOOOO

    Israel in EU?????
    Mediterrania in EU???
    Morocco and Tunisia special relations with EU????
    Palestinian Problem????
    ..........................
    ..........................

    Don`t you think you are talking away from reality???? Crazy talking
    Don`t you think it is a "bit" off topic???

  5. #85
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Silver Spring, Maryland (inside the Beltway)
    Posts
    33,698

    Default

    Ummm... tangential, I think. it is a discussion about how the Eu could pressurize states into improving human rights. Simple. That includes Israel and the Southern Med.

  6. #86
    Epirote
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Squeakus Maximus
    Ummm... tangential, I think. it is a discussion about how the Eu could pressurize states into improving human rights. Simple. That includes Israel and the Southern Med.
    You all think EU is a place where all problems are solved and we live hand by hand looking for a brighter tomorow.

    Ahhhhhhhhh
    You Dreamers.
    Ahhhhhhhhh

  7. #87
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Silver Spring, Maryland (inside the Beltway)
    Posts
    33,698

    Default

    Nope; we hope that it is what it will become, and it is what it should be. Solely having self-interest is the first step on a path to self-destruction.

  8. #88
    Epirote
    Guest

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Squeakus Maximus
    Nope; we hope that it is what it will become, and it is what it should be. Solely having self-interest is the first step on a path to self-destruction.
    EU comes from the word European Union.
    You have to be European country to enter EU.
    All non-european countries but close to the European politics, economy, culture will only have some special priveledges.

    EU is not the messia of North-Africa or Middle East nor it will ever accept them in it`s organization.
    EU is not a solver of chronic propblems.
    With new countries it just brings more problems on the table.
    EU the most possible thing is to grow to it`s destruction.

  9. #89

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dromikaites
    Well, the complete withdrawal from the Palestinian lands will remove any pretexts the terrorists might invoke for their actions. Once the withdrawal completed, the "freedom fighters" lose all legitimacy.
    Unfortunately that is not so. The Arabs still believe that all of Israel and Palestine belong to them. It is hard to say who is right in these situations as both sides have claim on the grounds of significant religious sites, so to do the Christians, it is important that Israel (maybe integrated with Palestine) becomes a secular society which does not favour particular faiths, it is understood that most politicians and citizens might well be Jewish because of current population levels.
    "The Moving Finger Writes and having writ moves on nor all thy piety nor wit can lure it back to cancel even half a line nor all thy tears wash out a single word" (Omar Khayyam).

    I think that probably my greatest achievement was introducing Ozymandias to these boards.

  10. #90
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Silver Spring, Maryland (inside the Beltway)
    Posts
    33,698

    Default

    BACK on the topic of Africa, how about the Commonwealth bringing pressure to bear on those nations within it to bring pressure to bear on the nations outside and inside it to reform? Economic sanctions and so forth? I mean, it does include quite a few African countries, right?

  11. #91

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Squeakus Maximus
    BACK on the topic of Africa, how about the Commonwealth bringing pressure to bear on those nations within it to bring pressure to bear on the nations outside and inside it to reform? Economic sanctions and so forth? I mean, it does include quite a few African countries, right?
    Having the Commonwealth made up of only fully functional democracies would help.

  12. #92
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Silver Spring, Maryland (inside the Beltway)
    Posts
    33,698

    Default

    Not really, then it would be tiny and include, well, nowhere I know of, especially not Britain; a true democracy is proportional representation.

  13. #93
    MaximiIian's Avatar Comes Limitis
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Louisville, Kentucky
    Posts
    12,895

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dromikaites
    Well, the complete withdrawal from the Palestinian lands will remove any pretexts the terrorists might invoke for their actions. Once the withdrawal completed, the "freedom fighters" lose all legitimacy.
    But it's the israelite's land. The palestinians have no right to attack the legitimate owners of that land.

  14. #94

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hapsburg
    But it's the israelite's land. The palestinians have no right to attack the legitimate owners of that land.
    It seems the Israeli government doesn't hold that opinion anymore, so it's pulling out of Gaza and West Bank ;-)

  15. #95

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Squeakus Maximus
    Not really, then it would be tiny and include, well, nowhere I know of, especially not Britain; a true democracy is proportional representation.
    Well, what I intended to say was to bring in all the countries of the Commonwealth at least the level of democracy existing in UK ;-)

  16. #96
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Silver Spring, Maryland (inside the Beltway)
    Posts
    33,698

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hapsburg
    But it's the israelite's land. The palestinians have no right to attack the legitimate owners of that land.
    Legitimate owners? Only because the Palestinians were removed from their land without consultation. Very legitimate.

  17. #97

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Squeakus Maximus
    Legitimate owners? Only because the Palestinians were removed from their land without consultation. Very legitimate.
    The way it seems to have begun is this: several Jewish organizations started to buy land from whoever owned it (mostly Arabs) and then offered that land to the Jewish immigrants to Palestine. Legally, the Jewish organizations were free to do whatever pleased them with their land once they've bought it, including to give it to settlers. However the Arabs started to notice the ethnic balance was about to change and begun to oppose the arrival of new Jewish immigrants. Tension rose and the first shots were fired. It won't be easy to say who started the violence, but it did escalate quickly.

    It is worth mentioning that quite a lot of the immigrants were illegal, as in not having the authorization to be in Palestina. At that time Palestine was under British administration and the British were not very enthusiastic about the influx of Jewish immigrants for lots of reasons, including the effect it was having on the Arab population and the fact many Jews were openly talking about creating an independent state there.

    The whole thing would have stopped then and there, by enforcing a strict immigration policy and by deporting the "illegal aliens". Yet the issue became extremely sensitive after WWII, taking into account what had happened to the Jews in Europe. An independent Palestina after WWI would have been Arab-ruled and, most likely, would not have allowed any Jewish immigrants. But now, since the Jewish population was already there and more immigrants were comming every day, without the British being able or really willing to stop them, the Arabs were left with this choice:
    A) Negociate with the Jews the power-sharing arrangements for a post-British Palestine;
    B) Push the existing Jews out and discourage the others from comming.

    The majority of the Arab leaders chose the second option. Most likely they've thought that, on one hand, there was no reason why they should share the power with the illegal immigrants and, on the other hand, that they were strong enough to deal with the Jews. So they went to war and lost.

    It is pointless to discuss today who was right and who was wrong then because no matter what the answer would be, the only way to expell the Israelis form there is by force. That is, if we take this approach we go back to the situation of 50 years ago, when the violence has started. There is, however, an alternative: leave the things as they are and discuss compensations (power-sharing is out of the question today because too much blood was spilled).

  18. #98
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Silver Spring, Maryland (inside the Beltway)
    Posts
    33,698

    Default

    Leave things as they are? Gaza is contested land, Israel wants to expand, Palestine will likewly want land reparitions. How can we negotiate as thingsa are without considering the past givcen that the two want mutually exclusive things.

  19. #99

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Squeakus Maximus
    Leave things as they are? Gaza is contested land, Israel wants to expand, Palestine will likewly want land reparitions. How can we negotiate as thingsa are without considering the past givcen that the two want mutually exclusive things.
    Isn't Israel withdrawing from Gaza by the end of August?

    As for taking the past into account, it doesn't really help progress when it comes to the relation between two countries. When dealing with individuals one can use the past because a solution can be forced uppon that individual by the sheer force of the state. When it comes to states or populations, forcing a solution works only if they are too weak to resist. Most of the time it's not the case, as the Israelis learned when they've tried to keep Gaza and the West Bank territories by force.

  20. #100
    Tom Paine's Avatar Mr Common Sense
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Silver Spring, Maryland (inside the Beltway)
    Posts
    33,698

    Default

    1) We can only hope, but they keep putting it off, so I'm not too confident.
    2) We have to force a solution on Israel. It already covers an area of Palestine it was given, how can it ask to be allowed to displace more people? I never understood what its claim on Gaza was; possibly never will. but if it pulls out unilaterally, unless certain settlers want to stay that is, then I think a solution might be reached. Of course, the specific settlers will have to peacefully cohabit and have to buy the land in Gaza from the original owners, but there we go.

Page 5 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •