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Thread: If both the Macedonians and the Greeks use the Macedonian phalanx...?

  1. #1

    Default If both the Macedonians and the Greeks use the Macedonian phalanx...?

    What is the difference between the two?

    Just asking.

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  2. #2
    Legio's Avatar EMPRESS OF ALL THINGS
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    Default Re: If both the Macedonians and the Greeks use the Macedonian phalanx...?

    In the patch the issue should be addressed. I think we had a thread about this somewhere, here it is.
    I myself would prefer the overhand anims for some of the hoplites but it's not my call, there are other team members

  3. #3
    The Holy Pilgrim's Avatar In Memory of Blackomur
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    Default Re: If both the Macedonians and the Greeks use the Macedonian phalanx...?

    I thought that the Greeks had their normal 6-foot spears while the Macedonians still had their long 12-foot spears?

  4. #4

    Default Re: If both the Macedonians and the Greeks use the Macedonian phalanx...?

    Time to be a prick.

    Macedonian spears were 21 feet long. Ahohoho, what a jest.

    Game of the Fates
    Mod of the week on hold -- I've played nearly every RTW mod out there.
    BOYCOTT THE USE OF SMILEYS! (Okay, just once)
    Antiochos VII...last true scion of the Seleucid dynasty...rest in peace, son of Hellas.
    I've returned--please forgive my long absence.

  5. #5

    Default Re: If both the Macedonians and the Greeks use the Macedonian phalanx...?

    All units that can perform the 'phalanx' ability share the same pikes . Not possible to make a difference in them (or no1 know how to)

  6. #6
    The Holy Pilgrim's Avatar In Memory of Blackomur
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    Default Re: If both the Macedonians and the Greeks use the Macedonian phalanx...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiochos VII Sidetes View Post
    Time to be a prick.

    Macedonian spears were 21 feet long. Ahohoho, what a jest.
    Oh! my mistake

  7. #7
    Hopit's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: If both the Macedonians and the Greeks use the Macedonian phalanx...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Antiochos VII Sidetes View Post
    Time to be a prick.

    Macedonian spears were 21 feet long. Ahohoho, what a jest.
    "The sarissa was the spear used by the ancient Macedonian army . The actual length of the sarissa is now unknown, but apparently it was twice as long as the doru. This makes it at least 14 feet (~4.3m), but 18 feet (~5.5m) appears more likely"
    from wiki

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtScooter View Post
    If you went to the Skyrim forums you'll see a lot posts about how it's somehow been watered down and hampered by money men making the decisions. Fact is, it's a great game and people still complain. It's the same thing as the TW franchise.

  8. #8
    Spartan198's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: If both the Macedonians and the Greeks use the Macedonian phalanx...?

    Aren't sarissas longer according to what row you're in? For example, wouldn't a guy in the front row have a shorter 14-footer while the guy at the very back row had one ranging in the 18- to 23-foot range?

  9. #9
    Hopit's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: If both the Macedonians and the Greeks use the Macedonian phalanx...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Spartan198 View Post
    Aren't sarissas longer according to what row you're in? For example, wouldn't a guy in the front row have a shorter 14-footer while the guy at the very back row had one ranging in the 18- to 23-foot range?
    and if someone in first row dies there comes guy whit longer sarissa then others.. thats not so good thing

    Quote Originally Posted by SgtScooter View Post
    If you went to the Skyrim forums you'll see a lot posts about how it's somehow been watered down and hampered by money men making the decisions. Fact is, it's a great game and people still complain. It's the same thing as the TW franchise.

  10. #10

    Default Re: If both the Macedonians and the Greeks use the Macedonian phalanx...?

    The macedon spears are ‘long pikes’ which are a lot longer than ‘spears’ which the other greeks use.

    I can make overhand phalanx if thats what you all want, the mod will have to be for bi though, I am not sure what that entails. I think we just need to add the bi exe to the shortcut, but we may have to add some other stuff?

    Before you say yes think on this…

    Using the ‘shield wall’ attribute instead of ‘phalanx’ [in order to use the overhead anims] means that battles will not look as grand as the men are all pushed together tightly [and hence look much smaller]. This also makes them very strong from the front, almost impossible to penetrate, the ai isn’t to clever so you will win easily which sucks.

    If you want them using the ‘phalanx’ then just add the anims to the DMB, but they don’t synchronise properly so you have men turning to face enemies and spears pointing in many directions ~ very scruffy and unrealistic for a phalanx which should be tight.

    This is why I use vanilla underhand anims and the ‘phalanx’ attribute. Its not perfect but its what I think is best given the games restrictions.
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  11. #11
    Spartan198's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: If both the Macedonians and the Greeks use the Macedonian phalanx...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopit View Post
    and if someone in first row dies there comes guy whit longer sarissa then others.. thats not so good thing
    Why would that not be a good thing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzalcoatl View Post
    The macedon spears are ‘long pikes’ which are a lot longer than ‘spears’ which the other greeks use.

    I can make overhand phalanx if thats what you all want, the mod will have to be for bi though, I am not sure what that entails. I think we just need to add the bi exe to the shortcut, but we may have to add some other stuff?

    Before you say yes think on this…

    Using the ‘shield wall’ attribute instead of ‘phalanx’ [in order to use the overhead anims] means that battles will not look as grand as the men are all pushed together tightly [and hence look much smaller]. This also makes them very strong from the front, almost impossible to penetrate, the ai isn’t to clever so you will win easily which sucks.

    If you want them using the ‘phalanx’ then just add the anims to the DMB, but they don’t synchronise properly so you have men turning to face enemies and spears pointing in many directions ~ very scruffy and unrealistic for a phalanx which should be tight.

    This is why I use vanilla underhand anims and the ‘phalanx’ attribute. Its not perfect but its what I think is best given the games restrictions.
    It wouldn't necessarily have to be for BI. I've played a couple of mods on RTW with overhand animations and they worked just fine. Granted, there's no shield wall, but enabling guard mode tends to make hoplites retain a close-knit formation. Then there's also the slightly more complicated method of tweaking the soldier radius.

  12. #12

    Default Re: If both the Macedonians and the Greeks use the Macedonian phalanx...?

    It wouldn't necessarily have to be for BI. I've played a couple of mods on RTW with overhand animations and they worked just fine. Granted, there's no shield wall, but enabling guard mode tends to make hoplites retain a close-knit formation. Then there's also the slightly more complicated method of tweaking the soldier radius.
    Interesting! How does one tweek the soldier radius?
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  13. #13

    Default Re: If both the Macedonians and the Greeks use the Macedonian phalanx...?

    Eb made an overhand-phalanx animation , and i'm pretty sure each classical-era mod uses it . just ask for permission , and if they give it , credit them

  14. #14

    Default Re: If both the Macedonians and the Greeks use the Macedonian phalanx...?

    We already have quite a few, the Iranian spears use one for example. Its more a case of overhand but loose Vs underhand but tight [acts like a phalanx, has its strangths and weaknesses].
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  15. #15
    Spartan198's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: If both the Macedonians and the Greeks use the Macedonian phalanx...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Quetzalcoatl View Post
    Interesting! How does one tweek the soldier radius?
    There's a thread around here somewhere, but I can't seem to find it.

    Try talking to DimeBagHo for more details. He made some radius edits in XGM that makes hoplites stick close together without having to put them in shield wall, as well as increases their effectiveness against pike phalanx units. Only downside to it is it requires a bit of refining of unit stats (which I'm sure Dime will go into as well).

  16. #16

    Default Re: If both the Macedonians and the Greeks use the Macedonian phalanx...?

    Ok thanks Spartan, I’ll pm him.
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  17. #17
    Legio's Avatar EMPRESS OF ALL THINGS
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    Default Re: If both the Macedonians and the Greeks use the Macedonian phalanx...?

    You change the numbers in one of the lines in EDU
    Look in Aradan's complete guide for the exact line, i cba to look at my files now.

  18. #18

    Default Re: If both the Macedonians and the Greeks use the Macedonian phalanx...?

    Surely its not just unit spacing? I have tried a few things with that in the past, I even used 0.0, 0.0, and watched the men go round in circles trying to reform over and over
    Formerly quetzalcoatl. Proud leader of STW3 and member of the RTR, FATW and QNS teams.

  19. #19
    Legio's Avatar EMPRESS OF ALL THINGS
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    Default Re: If both the Macedonians and the Greeks use the Macedonian phalanx...?

    Don't remember, it's one of those numbers, but I said I cba

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