Interactive Map Guide version 1

[Giorgios]

A fifth Muslim faction? When was this decided on?

[Hengest]

After the grand preview. When you see the interactive map guide you will understand that it will create a lot more dynamics in the Middle East, unlike some mods that have only Seljuks, Egypt and Rum we will be able to make Muslim vs Muslim conflict too. Historically there were many more factions not only in 1080 but throughout the mod period, our only regret is that we could nt find more space or present you with more transitions.
We decided that there was no point in inlcuding Serbia or Bulgaria, since both should be included together, but we could not do that so we decided to free up the last slot and Syria was introduced.
The original idea was part of the concessions we made when we merged with Rise of Empires mod, when the merger broke off we kept the faction.

[Copperknickers II]

A fifth Muslim faction? When was this decided on?

Syria was one of the most important Muslim factions. In fact even if you prefer playing as Christians you will now have to fight the Syrians, as well as the Turks and Egyptians, when you go on crusade.

Most of the conflicts in the first and second crusades were against the Syrians and Saladin (a Syrian general who went on to found the Ayyubid dynasty in Egypt). It adds a whole new dimension from most mods.

[One Eyed Teddy McGrew]

Firstly, congratulations to everyone involved on your work so far on a fantastic mod. I'm a new user here, and when I was browsing this caught my attention immediately. I'd like to blame you lot in advance for my complete lack of a life the moment this becomes downloadable.

Secondly, regarding the new faction list, if I read it properly, the emergent Serbians and Bulgarians have been replaced by the Syrians and the Cumans? You've already explained the significance of Syria, and how they will alter the dynamic in the Middle East, but what about the Cumans? Will they vie with Kiev/Novgorod/Georgia for control of the steppes, and/or threaten Hungary and Byzantium? Will they provide another Pagan force to perhaps make Lithuania feel a bit less lonely? What will their starting provinces/forces look like? Judging the potential for dynastic change, I assume some jiggery-pokery with the Mongols will also be involved. Do you have a vision for how the faction will play/behave? (as a bunch of horse mounted frothing nomadic savages, or something a little more multi-faceted)

Apologies for the question bombard, but I'm intrigued, and from what I've seen of this mod so far, nothing has been implemented without a plan. Once again, keep up the good work.

[Hengest]

Hi man, and welcome to TWC. Thanks for choosing us first...

Yeah, you got it pretty much. The idea was at first to have the Mongols represented by one transition in one faction slot. The argument came up that the Golden Horde and the Il Khanate deserve at least two opportunities in the faction roster and not just one. We still have the issue that technically the Il Khanate was descended from the Golden Horde, but we simply cannot go that far to following history instead we will have to allow the player and the campaign to rewrite history based on the oppurtunities we have given the engine.

As for the Cumans, they will act as an active Steppe faction in the early and high eras as a precursor to the two active Mongol factions that will dominate from the high era and into the late. The Cumans will have a lot in common with their later transition, the Great Khanate as well as their rebel neighbours. The Cumans will not have as much of a varied and large unit or building roster as the Mongols however.

Historically and at the game start, the Cumans that were not 'wild Cumans' were actually allied to Kiev and they also sent 40,000 of their own to emmigrate to their neighbours Georgia. So in reality, the Cuman faction will in fact be allied to its neighbours. Being pagan however stands against it and their are few natural allies. In fact the Cumans are surrounded by very strong rebels, and it is this which was historically and in the gamestart a factor of balance for other factions such as Kiev. Any eastern Russia player is likely to see not just battles between Steppe horse archers and Rus heavy infantry but between Cumans and Cuman/Steppe rebels. When the Mongol Horde script activates randomly some time around 1250 the Cuman player will ahve the option to stand and fight or to make the transition to the Mongol stage, you will still have to fight off masses of Mongol rebels though and your neighbours are likely to break all alliances with you. As with many transitions, you will have to weigh up the pros and cons. Becoming Mongol will of course be great fun, but it will also open up huge new development options and lots of nice units. Of course this in itslef will present new challenges.
Lithuania could find itself allying with the Cumans as pagans early on, or possibly the Swedes if they take that road. Alternatively Lithuania also has the option to go Catholic or Orthodox, I believe. Similarly so, I believe the Cumans have the option to go Muslim, as many of the Steppe tribes were in fact Muslim. You will in case get the building options for Jewish, pagan and Orthodox religions but if you do go Muslim you will find your neighbours less inclined to like you although if the Seljuks are pressing from the south it could be a clever move.
We have tried to think of everything... we still have some way to go getting alll these complex options down, and you have to remember that we have no way of telling how the AI will react.

We promise you a view of the Interactive Map Guide as soon as it is finished which should be in the next two weeks, although we may still be updating information on control points you will be abel to see them all and who controls them at a glance. We think it is going to be revolutionary for the community.

[Subuatai de Bodemloze]

Yeah, you got it pretty much. The idea was at first to have the Mongols represented by one transition in one faction slot. The argument came up that the Golden Horde and the Il Khanate deserve at least two opportunities in the faction roster and not just one. We still have the issue that technically the Il Khanate was descended from the Golden Horde, but we simply cannot go that far to following history instead we will have to allow the player and the campaign to rewrite history based on the oppurtunities we have given the engine.

To correct Hross both the Golden Horde and the Il-Khanate were breakoffs of the Greater Mongol Empire, al-a Ghenghis Khan.
But being that the game engine can only support 3 transitions within a faction, we have in essence amalgimated the GH and Il-Khanate into 2 entities that represent the empire in the west. It is a compromize that bothers me historically and personally but it is the best work around we can do within the game confines.

[sumskilz]

To correct Hross both the Golden Horde and the Il-Khanate were breakoffs of the Greater Mongol Empire, al-a Ghenghis Khan.
But being that the game engine can only support 3 transitions within a faction, we have in essence amalgimated the GH and Il-Khanate into 2 entities that represent the empire in the west. It is a compromize that bothers me historically and personally but it is the best work around we can do within the game confines.

In a way, it makes sense though. The regions of the Great Khanate that became Golden Horde and the Il-Khanate were led by separate branches of the Mongol ruling family - the decedents of Batu and Hulegu respectively - and continued that way after the breakup of the Great Khanate. So if the two factions begin as allies who later become hostile to each other, this will be roughly historical.

[Subuatai de Bodemloze]

Thanks for the history lesson sum Yes i know the why and how of the break off states.. But I am a purist when it comes to my Mongols.. Just because I understand the game restictions and accept the compromize we had to make to get it to work doesn't mean I have to like it. Know what I mean? What really concerns me about the 2 factions is trying to get them to support each other militarily to act as one in essence.. for at least the first 20 odd years.

[sumskilz]

Thanks for the history lesson sum Yes i know the why and how of the break off states.. But I am a purist when it comes to my Mongols..

I know that you know! I was further elucidating the reasoning behind our decisions for the greater public.

[Hengest]

Mongols, Cumans, whatever. I prefer to lump them under the broad term HA.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Giorgios]

Syria was one of the most important Muslim factions. In fact even if you prefer playing as Christians you will now have to fight the Syrians, as well as the Turks and Egyptians, when you go on crusade.

Most of the conflicts in the first and second crusades were against the Syrians and Saladin (a Syrian general who went on to found the Ayyubid dynasty in Egypt). It adds a whole new dimension from most mods.

Oh don't get me wrong, I think it's a great idea; my only problem is the lack of a sixth Muslim faction, the Zirids for example. Keep up the good work!

[Copperknickers II]

Well, the Zirids were a tiny 'pirate' state by 1080, and the Almohads and Zirids would have been so similar it was pointless having both when we could have somewhere like Czechy.

I made a Syria sig for anyone who is interested.

[Nikephorus16]

I'm so glad that Syria was included! Historically its pretty important with Nureddin and all.

[maurogti]

The Kingdom of Portugal won't be playable?

[Recon]

Is it still 12 settlements in Scandinavia? ... any possibility you would reveal the towns & which fotifications or minor towns the PSF's will represent?

How are you going to represent Sveariket? Both religiously & as a devided kingdom.


And last... How about adding Flanders in the future or is that out of the question?

[Hengest]

maurogti
I know, it sucks. But the question for us was do we include a faction that was important and have it unplayable or do we ignore it? The reason it cannot be playable is that it simply did not exist in any form in 1080 and the characters who allowed it to arise were not around in 1080. We have considered some ways to have the faction start in an extremely minor form in 1080 and allow the player the option of developing it but we are not very keen about the lack of historical motives for it. Therefore it will have to be randomly emergent, which we think will be cool.

Recon
Yepp, the map guide will be released very shortly we are just finishing up the business right now. On that map you can see all the settlements, and later as we develop it, you will then be able to see all the PSFs. I think you and all our Scandinavian fans will be very impressed.
Sveariket begins with only 2 settlements and one of these will be an autonomy that the player will not have direct conrol over, which follows the pattern for many other factions. The way to gain more power for your faction is to develop your faction leader's authority which will then unlock the ability to build settlements from colonies or autonomy types into homeland types which give you full control. In order to strengthen your FL you will need to play wisely, and conquer. For Sweden, you will want to take rebel settlements, but you will definitely need to take Uppsala and gain the title trait 'King of Sweden' which in 1080 your FL will lack and will in fact belong to a rebel general. You will need to kill him and take the settlement and then hold onto it despite problems with law and order due to religious tensions. You may have to give in and build pagan structures in order to keep order and rule. This will in turn effect your character and may even get you excommunicated. On the other hand, you could try to strengthen your kingdom before taking the capital, as the king of Västra Götaland and then in time take Uppsala and impose Christian conversion which will be rocky to say the least.
This kind of difficult journey will be typical for the Dominion game, as the mod name implies -it's all about how you rule and how you fight.
For Sveariket, once you have settled Sweden and unified the kingdom you will still have to be aware of internal politics, if a weak leader comes to the throne you may find yourself losing everything you have built up and in the midst of a civil war have to fight your battles all over again. Oppurtunities in the east exist however, offering money and expansion which could allow you to raid and trade and strengthen your king without weakening Sweden itself which you intend to settle and develop. Lots to think about....

Unfortunately Flanders is out of the question, we have of course considered it. But we have to look at factions that thrived beyond their borders. Flanders although really important in its locality stil can't compete with potential factions such as our three runners-up:
1. Kingdom of Jerusalem/Latin Empire/Crusader States
2. Serbia
3. Bulgaria

We even considered removing the Papacy to allow another slot...

[Basil 11]

maurogti
I know, it sucks. But the question for us was do we include a faction that was important and have it unplayable or do we ignore it? The reason it cannot be playable is that it simply did not exist in any form in 1080 and the characters who allowed it to arise were not around in 1080. We have considered some ways to have the faction start in an extremely minor form in 1080 and allow the player the option of developing it but we are not very keen about the lack of historical motives for it. Therefore it will have to be randomly emergent, which we think will be cool.

Recon
Yepp, the map guide will be released very shortly we are just finishing up the business right now. On that map you can see all the settlements, and later as we develop it, you will then be able to see all the PSFs. I think you and all our Scandinavian fans will be very impressed.
Sveariket begins with only 2 settlements and one of these will be an autonomy that the player will not have direct conrol over, which follows the pattern for many other factions. The way to gain more power for your faction is to develop your faction leader's authority which will then unlock the ability to build settlements from colonies or autonomy types into homeland types which give you full control. In order to strengthen your FL you will need to play wisely, and conquer. For Sweden, you will want to take rebel settlements, but you will definitely need to take Uppsala and gain the title trait 'King of Sweden' which in 1080 your FL will lack and will in fact belong to a rebel general. You will need to kill him and take the settlement and then hold onto it despite problems with law and order due to religious tensions. You may have to give in and build pagan structures in order to keep order and rule. This will in turn effect your character and may even get you excommunicated. On the other hand, you could try to strengthen your kingdom before taking the capital, as the king of Västra Götaland and then in time take Uppsala and impose Christian conversion which will be rocky to say the least.
This kind of difficult journey will be typical for the Dominion game, as the mod name implies -it's all about how you rule and how you fight.
For Sveariket, once you have settled Sweden and unified the kingdom you will still have to be aware of internal politics, if a weak leader comes to the throne you may find yourself losing everything you have built up and in the midst of a civil war have to fight your battles all over again. Oppurtunities in the east exist however, offering money and expansion which could allow you to raid and trade and strengthen your king without weakening Sweden itself which you intend to settle and develop. Lots to think about....

Unfortunately Flanders is out of the question, we have of course considered it. But we have to look at factions that thrived beyond their borders. Flanders although really important in its locality stil can't compete with potential factions such as our three runners-up:
1. Kingdom of Jerusalem/Latin Empire/Crusader States
2. Serbia
3. Bulgaria

We even considered removing the Papacy to allow another slot...

I understand the decision not to include the KOJ/LE/CS, but how is DOTS going to manage the conquests of the crusades?

[Recon]

You sound very exited about Scandinavia - the idea's and plans you have for her. That leaves me in good faith.

I defiantly hope we will have more than just two settlements representing the land of the Geats and all the way up to Norrland.

But I'll wait to comment that untill the next map guide is released.

Thanks for your time Hross, it was indeed good news.

[Stephan]

you have 31 factions and no rebells

and i really hope you find a way to include the crusader states

[Giorgios]

you have 31 factions and no rebells

Fear not, I looked in detail at the list, and they just missed out the number 19. Phew!