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Thread: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

  1. #81
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gods999 View Post
    Whenever I start the Greek Campaign there is no scripted battle. When I end turn Xerxes doesn't attack. Help?

    Btw I am using classical version
    The only time it doesn't work is if you quit a game and start again without exiting the mod first.

  2. #82

    Default Re: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

    I c I restarted the game and it seems to work ty! and it is a great mod but I had some questions about the mod and would it be possible if some of the factions at the begining be playable i.e Macedon and Thrace maybe Scythia

  3. #83
    Spartan198's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gods999 View Post
    I c I restarted the game and it seems to work ty! and it is a great mod but I had some questions about the mod and would it be possible if some of the factions at the begining be playable i.e Macedon and Thrace maybe Scythia
    None of them are factions in the mod. The only factions are KH and Persia.

  4. #84
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

    Technically they are in, however they're only there as a bug fix, you need at least five factions in RTW to avoid a ctd when viewing the faction progress page.

    There are no plans to add factions.

  5. #85

    Default Re: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

    Great Mod guys. Just got a question for the campaign:
    Is there a turn limit? I know there's the campaign objective to capture 15 settlements (Greece) but it also said you can outlast them.

  6. #86
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

    Nope no turn limit. The 'capture settlements' is pretty much an arbitary target, I hope players will want to crush the Persians/Greeks.

  7. #87

    Default Re: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

    Well I've just gotten descently far in my campaign, VH settings Classic version, and just wanted to give feedback from the mod from what I've seen so far. I've pushed as far north as Macedonia and I'm just about ready to go head to head with the Persians on year 465. So these are some of the things I like and dislike:

    Positives
    1. The Map-Very detailed, lots of settlements; I'll take your word as to the accuracy of the location of the cities. Nicely done.
    2. I like the fact you train Spartans in sparta, Athenians in Athens, etc. makes it more realistic recruiting. I was a little concerned that it would be Spartans and only Spartan soldiers for the Greek side. So I like the variety.

    Dislikes
    1. Units sometimes feel too powerful (Spartan bodyguards and Immortals for example) as it throws off balance. All units with defense over 20 are a b#tch to kill. Kinda get's boring when I conquer cities every time with a single bodyguard unit.
    2. Do the Rebel Greeks have OCD that they have to have every one of their settlements with 950 or so soldiers. Mix it up.
    3. Why does Athen's have a wooden palisade? I'm not sure what Athens at the time looked like but when I find a random city I never heard of (Larissa) with a stone wall and Athen's sporting a palisade I'm dumfounded. Talk about an anti-clamatic siege when we take it back.
    4. The mercanaries imo are dumb and are an eye sore. I mean I'm not sure how much contact the Greeks had with the outside world at that time but seeing Celtic/british mercanaries seems too farfetched. Imo it would've just been best to have alot of spear/hoplite, archers, and peltast mercanaries. The Thracians are really cool though. Oh and the mercanaries are too powerful imo.

    Some ideas:
    1. I can't find Xerxes and after 15 years, and w them supposedly burning Athens, I would've liked to have fought his army. If it was possible it would've been better as right after your defeated at Thermopoly his army shows up next to the "burnt down" Athen's.
    2. Also didn't Leonidas have a son or does history not know? Even though you start with a new king and family tree it would be nice to have his son grow up so when he comes of age we could give him an army to get vengeance. I mean the game alerts us when Leonidas's wife/queen dies.

    So this is just my take on your mod. Very enjoyable and hope you all keep up the good work.

  8. #88

    Default Re: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

    Well Leonidas' brother is there for "vengence" .

    I'm really enjoying my campaign. Its being difficult, but now I've taken Makedon and crushed many of their full stacks its surely just a matter of grinding them down now.

    I have to admit I changed a few of my mercenary models for a few from one of HS' other mods, Sicilia. And then changed their descriptions so that they are more local (Cyrenaic, Italiotai, Syrakousai, Illyrioi. I can't speak Greek so these are probably wrong )

    And I also created another unit of "Makedones Argyraspidai" for the Greeks, that fought with a shorter spear (using the same model) so my hoplites don't seem inferior.

    Its a great mod with many great looking models. So everything is schweeeeet for me .

  9. #89
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

    Dislikes
    1. Units sometimes feel too powerful (Spartan bodyguards and Immortals for example) as it throws off balance. All units with defense over 20 are a b#tch to kill. Kinda get's boring when I conquer cities every time with a single bodyguard unit.
    Campaign balance is a difficult art to master, some say it can't be done. I think we're pretty close for a two faction mod. If the rebels in Greece were stronger you wouldn't be able to build a strong enough base to fight the Persians. However feel free to try and balance it better.

    2. Do the Rebel Greeks have OCD that they have to have every one of their settlements with 950 or so soldiers. Mix it up.
    Numbers are arbitrary and easily changed.

    3. Why does Athen's have a wooden palisade? I'm not sure what Athens at the time looked like but when I find a random city I never heard of (Larissa) with a stone wall and Athen's sporting a palisade I'm dumfounded. Talk about an anti-clamatic siege when we take it back.
    We made it so for game play reasons, but again, feel free to mod it yourself.

    4. The mercanaries imo are dumb and are an eye sore. I mean I'm not sure how much contact the Greeks had with the outside world at that time but seeing Celtic/british mercanaries seems too farfetched. Imo it would've just been best to have alot of spear/hoplite, archers, and peltast mercanaries. The Thracians are really cool though. Oh and the mercanaries are too powerful imo.
    I read in a historic account of the armies Xerxes took to Greece that mercenaries from all the known world were present at the time, I think it's fair to say that they would have fought on both sides. It's also true that Greece was the centre of the world as far as trading was concerned so the presence of many nationalities would be expected, however you could take a leaf from 'Yawyack' and change the units as you please.

    1. I can't find Xerxes and after 15 years, and w them supposedly burning Athens, I would've liked to have fought his army. If it was possible it would've been better as right after your defeated at Thermopoly his army shows up next to the "burnt down" Athen's.
    After the defeat at Thermopylae Xerxes and his core army travelled back to Sardis. Which is what he does in the mod.

    2. Also didn't Leonidas have a son or does history not know? Even though you start with a new king and family tree it would be nice to have his son grow up so when he comes of age we could give him an army to get vengeance. I mean the game alerts us when Leonidas's wife/queen dies.
    When Leonidas died his brother (Cleombrotus) became king, in the mod we used a name that already existed, however it's close enough that I think we can get away with it. As for Leonidas's son 'Pleistarchus,' are you sure he's not in there?.

    I have to admit I changed a few of my mercenary models for a few from one of HS' other mods, Sicilia. And then changed their descriptions so that they are more local (Cyrenaic, Italiotai, Syrakousai, Illyrioi. I can't speak Greek so these are probably wrong )
    That's the spirit, I'm all for people changing things to suit their own taste.

  10. #90

    Default Re: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

    Well I just found Xerxes who really was as it turns out a Persian coward haha. I sent a 2500 man army up against his 1800 man army and we skirmished a little during the battle before he took his whole army and withdrew off the battlefield and upon a ship on the map...

    But yeah I'm having fun with this mod. I just wanted to give my own critiques on it. I realize I could modify your mod to my taste but I really don't like messing around like that for fear of messing something up as I'm not as savvy with this stuff haha.

    ...And yeah Leonidas's son isn't there; Pleaistarchus. Was he suppose to be in your mod?

  11. #91
    ArtoriusMaximus's Avatar Laetus
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    Default Re: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

    hmmm quick question whats the difference between the classic and movie version because i know that in the movie it was just leonidas v xerxes but in history just down that river/lake thing the athenians were in a big battle beating the outta persian ships....

  12. #92

    Default Re: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

    Mostly the appearance of the units. The gameplay is the same.

  13. #93
    ruthless's Avatar Semisalis
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    Default Re: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

    I think its awesome but sometimes i get a lil confused in the campaign on what to da and i wish there were more troops per unit...

  14. #94
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

    Bump.

  15. #95
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

    Bumpage..

  16. #96
    Oberon's Avatar Foederatus
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    Default Re: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

    Big thanks for this great mod!!! it's my favorite RTW mod especially the battles are really fun to play. One question though, why didn't you add the canyon for the Thermopylae map like in the movie? it would be a perfect spot for the spartan phalanx to defend their position.

    However nice work, keep it uP

  17. #97
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

    The pass depicted in the movie is pure fantasy, we wanted to represent Thermopylae as close to the real site as we could within the engines restrictions.

    Glad you're enjoying the mod..

  18. #98

    Default Re: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

    I've been playing the mod for like 8 hours, and I'll give a report, just to say how awesome, yet brutal it is.

    First Battle: Leonidas and his Spartans. Pretty nice. I expected something like this, but I thought it would have been in a pass, so the fight would have been longer and on more even footing. Because Leonidas fought in a pass that limited Persian numbers. I got my butt handed to me on that. Not enough units to do anything, so I just let them play it out and watch my Spartan Bodyguard with +3 HP dish it out. Damn...

    Immediately I found myself on a chaotic map, which is exactly what this mod is supposed to do. At various times I wanted to give up, but decided to just push it. I play RTW often and having cavalry underneath my fingertips like water feels great. Using only infantry was such a downer, but then again, this is Greece. Oh and Sparta.

    Battle of the Plataea - This one caught me off guard. What was worse was my reinforcement army didn't show up to battle. So it was a 2v1 battle and I lost it. I like to finish things quick with cavalry, so watching the better infantry beat themselves to death while trying to flank the 2x size army was... horrible. It was fun, but I got annihilated.


    I finally noticed after 6 hours of gameplay that there is a little image called Warlords of Sparta at every city. I right clicked it and found some information that was kinda useful. Too bad I never disbandoned my garrison from Plataea. I went -80k mnai into debt. But that's cool, because now I'm stinking rich.


    Using my garrison from Plataea, I kept them there to watch if the Persians were coming back. But for the odd reason, they started leaving. They could have wiped my butt across the floor if they kept coming. I didn't know at this time that Spartan Bodyguard (w.e their weird name is) is so overpowered (just as they were in the past), that I can kill 6000 guys with 24 generals. I took back Athens, and the game being so great, put in Athenian troops. I didn't see them until later. I found the Oracle and she gave me missions. She looks hot. Jk. I never finished any missions in time except liberating individual cities. My army was spread then.

    I started grouping all my family members together and had them lead separate armies. I found it hard because Persia seemed to have an infinite amount of troops. When I took on settlement, it would get hammered and hammered by armies. The worst thing is that I'm so used to RTW, where all factions start off on a basically even footing. Conquer, retrain, leave, conquer again. The thing is, when I tried my tactic here, my two unit garrison in my newly conquered city would get under siege, and so I had to run back with my main army. Very tiring. Very interesting. I started conquering various allied rebel settlements to gain the bonus units. My huge negative income settlements didn't help me as I plunged deeper and deeper into debt.

    Finally I reached 45k into debt, and I didn't know what to do. Frantically, I conquered several island settlements off the coast of Greece, and that did the trick. All my cities started growing their income back as trade reinitiated. Sparta with its horrible -2500k mnai went to +350. And I also noticed that stocking garrisons up in a settlement also decreases public order (only greek settlements). I guess because they're pissed off that the soldiers have nerve to stay at home while there's a huge war to win? Problem is that whenever I conquer a settlement, I need to build a lot of units to maintain public order (on persian settlements/macedonian settlements). And the Persians literally have ~ 10 settlements in Macedonia. When I conquered one settlement, they would run off around the mountains and hit my older settlements. A total piss off. Eventually, I created two standing armies. I had taken Pella back (or whatever it's called. The settlement that is where Thessalonica/Pella is) AND killed Xerxes right before that. And Persian armies from the West mountains were pouring in, and the huge never-ending flow of armies from Persian taking the bridge into Thrace kept coming from the East. I finally got the bright idea that putting ALL my family members into one army would be a total beater. In the beginning, I only had ~ 14 family members in my main general army because of my lack of settlements. RTW runs by General:Settlement ratio. As I started conquering more cities, I also realized that I would need to keep using my generals as my main army. Thus when I conquered a settlement using a pure general army, I'd have to wait a few turns to create some garrison to maintain it. (always a problem. When I left, Persians invaded the darn settlement and I'd have to backtrack).

    I kept expanding East. Eventually I got so tired of playing the battles on the field, I started auto-resolving (crappy method). But with my all general army, I could guarantee success 95% of the time unless they kept getting pummeled in the same turn. By the next turn, if they were down to ~ 5 body guards left, they would have regenerated to 38 <3. A never depleting army.

    As the West mountain Persians kept coming back, I had to find ways to stop them. Because I only had one solid army that could deal a hole into the Persians, I started to bring more family members in. Now I had a 3 general army to face the Western Persians. It was an underestimate. They had tens of thousands of troops, and eventually my three generals were either slain or recuperating.

    To make matters worse, the game was putting some a tax on my mental state of health, I decided to put every single city on auto-manage. It worked beautifully actually. All though they kept producing crappy units, once in a while, they'd create some great units like cavalry, or some decent hoplites. Once in a while I'd have to put cities under my own control to manage them, but I left them to the AI for most of my gameplay. I needed to focus more on defending the shores of Greece.



    I misunderestimated Persia numerous times (the Western Mountain ones). I sent 4k units composed of Athenian Hoplites and Javelin (heavy infantry), but got CRUSHED. Like crushed as in, all 6000 murdered, and the enemy taking only ~ 58 casualties. Total BS right?! Auto-Resolve is a stupid thing. Oh well. I grew some more brain cells and brought in ~ 5 generals and had them auto-resolve and gain experience. (Note, ALL my generals have 3 gold chevrons as experience due to constant fighting).

    With those five generals, I took down some settlements in the Western Mountains of Macedonia. But I couldn't hold on to them very long. The marches to supply my Eastern army left little for my Western one. I didn't have enough units to maintain a happy settlement, so I had to stall and wait for time. But Persia kept coming at me, and eventually I had to pull out. I finally got the smart idea that when auto-resolving, usually KEY generals that you want dead escape. So I started fighting those battles manually and murdering them. I started chasing down individual armies and destroying them. Eventually, the Western Macedonian Persian armies began disappearing and things became easier. I had less besieges, and much more units.

    The whole time, my Eastern Army (composed fully of Generals) was having a hard time keeping the settlements they conquered. I didn't want to leave general units behind to fend a garrison because transporting units was a long way. I needed to train garrison units AT those settlements and move on.

    The time scale was that Thrace was falling just as quickly as Western Macedonia was falling. Slowly, but surely,I started making better moves. Eliminating the generals of the Persian army to create disorder. Because really, the best units in the game are the bodyguards. They can literally kill hundreds and not lose a man.

    Just like in history, I was murdering the generals to create disorder in the Persian army.


    The persian occupied settlements really gave me a hard time. Their reluctance to assimilate began to become tiresome. Sometimes, I let them revolt just so I could plunder them again to reduce population size. I started creating a naval power. Transporting units by land took too long. The Persian navy was huge, but creating on huge fleet allowed me to take them down. Their navy is still huger at this moment though.



    I finally reached a high peak in my domination of Western Macedon. Only one persian settlement remained, however, Persia's best general was inside. He had 9 stars of command and 6 management. Again, I misunderstood Persia by sending ~ 5k units to deal with 800 Persians. Annihilated. I got wiped off the face of the mountains. So I sent in 4 generals with 2000 men and wiped that settlement OUT. My conquest of Western Macedonia was finally finished. Only a few rebel settlements remained. I was more focused on Persian settlements, however.


    Since Western Macedonia had been completed, I started drawing all troops toward Thrace. I was now in a comfortable position. However, it was the beginning stages of the turn of war, so I still had to struggle. My reinforcements weren't in Thrace yet, and frankly, I was really hoping for my new generals to arrive in Thrace. My individual general-less armies could go butt screw themselves. They were only for garrison. As my forces began arriving in Thrace, only 2 Persian settlements remained on the Thracian homeland. The first one was hidden behind some mountains, and it was difficult to take it. Why? I took it numerous times, but the population kept rebelling on me. If I pulled back my main army to subdue it, then my other settlements would be undefended. So I left my main army to fend off major attacks, and grouped together a decent general army. 3 generals and 1200 troops. I took down that settlement and left 400 as a garrison, and withdrew my 3 generals.

    Around this time my main army suffered a major defeat. They could handle anything, being 3 gold chevron in experience, but they had over 7 maxed armies hit them consecutively. Alongside some Persian generals. My main army was left with around 5 bodyguards for each general. 10 of my generals died. I was crippled. So ran back toward the nearest settlement and set a fort up. I went straight to Korinth and saw 5 generals that were idle. I withdrew them and Korinthia's happiness turned to green -_-. Sent them overland because the Persian naval was getting stronger.

    Finally I regrouped into a another huge general army and started getting gold chevrons back into the newer, inexperienced generals. I started checking Korinthia every few or so turns for new generals and sending them on the way. Eventually, I had 3 minor general armies and 1 army entirely composed of generals. I hit the last settlement in Thrace and took it. I took it with a Minor General Army. (Minor General Army is like 2-6 generals + regular units). Since the Persian armies crossed over a bridge from Persia into Thrace, I set up a fort in the thin strip of land with my full General army. I was able to concentrate on eliminating the rest of the Persians in Thrace. Some of their armies were still in there and could wreak potential havock. Since Persian armies couldn't maneuver past my fort, they attacked it, and my general army was able to deal with them easily.

    Once Thrace and Greece became peaceful, I brought in all my armies over land and sea BEHIND the fort my Generals were in. Then I left the fort and moved toward Persia, like a migration. I hit the Persian settlement on the thin strip of land at the edge of Persia and crossed over the land strip. Persia's FIRST settlement had no walls. I took it down easily. I expected Persian armies to be everywhere, but they seemed moderate. Maybe because the pressure of guarding against two sides was lifted. I was now able to drive WEST right into Persia. And that's where I am now. I have 2 settlements in Persia, and am moving South-West.

  19. #99
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

    Wow, that's some excellent feedback, thanks for that.. It sounds as through you packed a lot into 8 hours. There are many ways to take on the WoS campaign and we tried to make it so blitzing was near impossible because the Persians would be more than powerful enough to block. Some tactics we couldn't do much about, packing armies with generals is one, but the AI usually combats that by churning out masses of units and few people will continue when faced by that so well done for persisting. The only problem is that you may find the end campaign a bit less intense and an anticlimax.

    We set the balance so that the campaign could be played at a slower pace giving the player time to build up settlements so they could recruit better troops, the Thebans and Athenians as well as the Spartan Hippies. Because you didn't disbanded your army after Platea you were forced into a massive debt, I'm sure the advisor explains that you should disband that army because of the cost.

    The problems you're having with revolts and subduing settlements is because Spartan law isn't well received in captured settlements, whether they are Greek or Persian...

    Sounds like you've had fun though..
    Last edited by Halie Satanus; September 25, 2011 at 10:24 AM.

  20. #100

    Default Re: 300 WoS; General discussion and feedback.

    I had immense amounts of fun. I wanted to keep the garrison anyways because I needed some real troops to do some damage, because they were relatively strong.

    @ Churning mass units. Ah! I see. Well over time, generals get the insane +3 chevron, giving them 25 attack, and what ever weapon upgrades they were retrained at.

    @ Better units. Ever since I started using generals to win the battles, I find Spartan Hippies trying, alongside Athenian troops. Generals just carry the day in all cases.

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