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July 20, 2009, 10:13 AM
#1
Suggestions for AoDII
Dear Pompeius Magnus,
Just to say that I await this mod with maximum eagerness! I love history, and I know, having had the opportunity to exchange with you, that this will be the most historical-detailed mod ever.
On a side note, just to open what I feel could be an interesting discussion, I have an idea that I feel could be interesting. So far, regarding the acquisition cost of units as well as their maintenance cost, I have seen two main trends: either (as if may in Vanilla) to give costs that are just arbitrary or (as in many good mods) to give costs perfectly aligned with the quality of the units (ie, a "value for money" approach).
I think that another approach would be to take into consideration the respective cultures of the different factions and use costs to push for a relevant mix of armies, both for the computer and the player. As examples taken from Roman Republican history (but I feel applicable to any timeframe), I feel it would make sense not only to apply pure "value for money" but to introduce a biais that would take into account the fact that, structurally, the Republican Rome was not inclined too much towards cavalry and thus increase the cost (acquisition and possession) of cavalry for Rome, whilst Sarmatian armies, which were, again culturally, horse-friendly, would benefit structurally from lower costs for horse-based units, and maybe higher ones for foot-based units.
Yours sincerely,
FFJean
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July 20, 2009, 10:26 AM
#2
Re: Suggestions for AoDII
Hello Jean,
costs depending on faction + culture will be inlcuded into the mod of course. You are absolutely right if you say that the recruiting costs between Romans, germans and eastern factions should be different.
Furthermore we will provide several "surprises" concerning this issue - related to our brand new building-structure (for all factions, but esp for the franks in gaul, goths (both tribes), romans and sassies)
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July 20, 2009, 03:25 PM
#3
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July 20, 2009, 03:41 PM
#4
Re: Suggestions for AoDII
Antiochos, perhaps you have also certain ideas? then feel free to post them. We are open for all suggestions.
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July 21, 2009, 03:39 AM
#5
Semisalis
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July 21, 2009, 04:41 AM
#6
Re: Suggestions for AoDII
Thank you William
The research and build of a structure of a new naval-system was finished by my team 2 or 3 months ago.
You will get more types of ships (much more), the Dromon is inlcuded, new ship-grafics concerning the little UI-cards, and new ship models + new textures for the strat-map.
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July 21, 2009, 11:27 AM
#7
Re: Suggestions for AoDII
Dear Pompeius,
Great to see that this idea (which I can not anymore call mine ;-)) will be factored in your mod. My point is really that such changes should affect both (and most probably differently):
- the acquisition cost/time of a unit (which IMHO should be very low for mercs, as I do not believe that there was any kind of true "Golden Hello" for mercs that could be equivalent to the cost & time spent to train "regular" factional units, so I would, without any real knowledge, assess the acquisition cost as low / time as immediate for mercs which come with their training/weapons/armor, whilst this cost would reflect training (if any), cost of weapons & armor (if provided by the state) and time would be the time to train a unit for regular units.
- the possession cost of a unit, IMHO again, should depend on salaries (and all equivalent costs, meaning that, for me, these costs should most probably be higher for a merc unit than for a regular one) and on maintenance costs (ie, food for horses and men, maybe other types, but I struggle to see which). If mercs were supposed to get more benefit from looting, I do not see how the current engine could tackle this, and thus maybe salaries should be even higher.
This means, in my example, that a merc unit could be cheaper to acquire (and quicker, with 0-time maybe) than a regular unit, but in the long term, more expensive to maintain.
For irregular units (like levies), obvioulsy, time could be quick to raise and cheap to maintain, but that would mean that such units should be severely handicapped when facing regular or merc units.
Voilą, just my few cents.
Yours sincerely dear Pompeius,
Jean
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July 21, 2009, 12:14 PM
#8
Re: Suggestions for AoDII
@Jean
at the moment it seems that we use all DMB-slots. Mercs will be recruited via "buildings", but probably not in the "open field" - if you know what I mean. And here we will offer different kind of mercs = depending on the availability of the buildings.
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July 23, 2009, 01:44 PM
#9
Re: Suggestions for AoDII
Dear Pompeius,
I understand the way recruitment will work (or at least, your explanation of "buildings" vs. "open field"). My point was rather to try to play with acquisitions- and possessions-costs and times. I don't know whether you plan to use this kind of rationale, or another (or just do not want to enter into such rationale).
Yours sincerely,
Jean
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July 24, 2009, 04:56 AM
#10
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July 24, 2009, 05:47 AM
#11
Re: Suggestions for AoDII
trebuchet (or better said Onager) will will be removed from game except the smaller versions (but still expensive) and the Ballista. Furthermore I think about a re-modelling of the carroballistae (the ballista installed on a horse-cart).
But I agree 100% with you, we should minimize the possibility to meet those machines on battle field.
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July 24, 2009, 01:12 PM
#12
Re: Suggestions for AoDII
Dear Pompeius, dear William,
Please let me say that I totally agree with William's statement. Siege machinery, which were not used during field battles, should, IMHO, only be available during siege battles. As it is the case for ladders, towers, and battering rams. Carro-ballistae may be different, if this is a field battle equipment. But honestly, for the rest, apart from nice "skins", I think it drives the player and more importantly the AI into a totally a-historical use.
Yours sincerely,
Jean
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July 24, 2009, 01:14 PM
#13
Re: Suggestions for AoDII
PS: dear Pompeius, sorry to be annoying (well, I think you know that I can be annoying without wanting to be ;-)), did you understand my point about time and cost of recruitment and cost of possession? I think it would really drive the player and maybe the AI (but I do not know a thing about how it works for recruiting) into more historical armies.
Yours again,
Jean
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July 24, 2009, 01:50 PM
#14
Re: Suggestions for AoDII
I understand your points and we'll try to include so many community inputs as possible. I we come to the point of out internal beta testings then I hope you will join and help us. That's the best way to change "this" and "that".
To the carro ballistae: This machine as well as the scorpion was indeed used sometimes on battlefield or to block and protect important ways.
But even this machines will be very expensive in AoD2. That means you will probably rarely find them on battlefield. If you find them on battlefield it is perhaps you own ;-)
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July 24, 2009, 02:40 PM
#15
Semisalis
Re: Suggestions for AoDII
These carro ballistae are powerfull. I employed one with my armies in AoD1. Send them out to harras opproaching enemy. Blew big holes in enemy lines.
Most powerfull roman unit is Plumbatarii: at unit size HUGE one unit will kill between 200 and 300 per battle. If you employ six units you can destroy 6 to 9 enemy units in a battle. Half the enemy army.
Last edited by William the Silent; July 24, 2009 at 04:40 PM.
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July 24, 2009, 02:43 PM
#16
Re: Suggestions for AoDII
true, they were powerfull
the basic-stat of our new coded units is vanilla BI - because I think we find here a very ballanced game. Of course those stats will be changed during the beta tests in many ways.
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July 24, 2009, 05:07 PM
#17
Semisalis
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July 24, 2009, 07:36 PM
#18
Re: Suggestions for AoDII
no onagers = more realistic and (more important for me as coder) = more DMB slots for other units ;-)
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July 27, 2009, 02:02 PM
#19
Re: Suggestions for AoDII
Dear Pompeius,
Just one thing I would (if you allow me) "recommend" to use for AOD2, is the systematical approach regarding units stats. I can't find exactly where such approach was first used (I mean, for which mod) but it tries to take into account "objective" datas, such as armor type and quality, weapons type and quality, rather than "subjective" data, as in Vanilla and many mods. I will look again to try to find where this system was described. Most probably others can indicate this to you.
Yours sincerely,
Jean
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August 04, 2009, 08:43 AM
#20
Re: Suggestions for AoDII
it would be interesting what kind of mod you mean Jean.
Also the difference between "objectice" and "subjectice" -stats is not so clear for me.
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