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Thread: The decline of class in music

  1. #1
    IronBrig4's Avatar Good Matey
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    Default The decline of class in music

    While teaching English in Korea, my class had to read a Scholastic book called "The Roots of Rock and Roll." I actually learned quite a bit from that, as it covered the origins of rock from R&B in the 40s, through the heavyweights like Elvis and Chuck Berry, until today. Another thing I noticed is the early rock musicians tried to have class. Not like the artists we have today.

    Here are some pictures of musicians from the 50's.


    The Drifters


    Frankie Lymon and the Teenagers

    Back then, most singers and musicians dressed nicely. It was how they earned their living, for one; they dressed like they were going to the office. They also played in public venues where they were expected to maintain decorum. For example, the music shows such as American Bandstand had dress codes. Even Elvis wore a tie. Of course there was a lot of racism (lots of angry letters poured in after Frankie Lymon was shown dancing with a white girl on TV) but everything else seemed respectable.

    Around the late 60's, however, musicians started to look a lot scruffier. For example, the Beatles went from this:


    To this.


    Goddamn hippies.

    Appearance continued to decline throughout the 70's and 80's. More and more musicians started to look as if they'd just rolled out of bed after a hard night. This is not to say there weren't any exceptions. The guys in the pic below might appear strange, but at least they don't look like hobos.


    The following pic is an example of today's norm. Kids actually think it's cool to look like this?


    It's not that I think musicians should still wear suits. I hate wearing those things myself. Nor do I think they should all dress up in white like Pat Boone. But I think they should at least try to not look like strung-out bums or convicts.

    Thoughts?

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  2. #2

    Default Re: The decline of class in music

    you sound like an old person.
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  3. #3
    IronBrig4's Avatar Good Matey
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    Default Re: The decline of class in music

    Get off my lawn! You damn kid! And stop skateboarding on the sidewalk!

    Seriously though, the standard certainly has gone down.

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  4. #4

    Default Re: The decline of class in music

    It's not about class. They're products of their era.

    Each music genre has its own styling.

  5. #5
    Sidmen's Avatar Mangod of Earth
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    Default Re: The decline of class in music

    Its a result of cultural change.

    We went from happy go-getters to pissed off barely-awake self-haters.

    Just look at the expressions on the people's faces. They go from happy, to high, to pissed.
    "For the humble doily is indeed the gateway to ULTIMATE COSMIC POWER!"

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  6. #6
    CtrlAltDe1337's Avatar Praepositus
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    Default Re: The decline of class in music

    I too wish musicians would dress nicer, as most look like drug addicts, ex-cons, or just plain crazy.


  7. #7
    Thanatos's Avatar Now Is Not the Time
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    Default Re: The decline of class in music

    I honestly think black music died after the 1960s/1970s. Everything after that is just crap. This is mainstream, btw. I don't mean exceptions like Michael Jackson and that sort who don't follow everyone else and go into rap/hip-hop/R&B.

    Ah well. I don't really listen to it anyways, I just listen to classical and orchestral music.

  8. #8
    IronBrig4's Avatar Good Matey
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    Default Re: The decline of class in music



    This was the first rock & roll song ever written. If you look at the audience, they're enjoying it but they're being quiet. Most crowds at today's rock concerts would be screaming and throwing stuff onto the stage.



    See? Respectable, dignified, and classy. They even did a bow at the end. They would never do that on today's MTV.

    And yes, I am fully aware that it wasn't perfect back then. The first rock concert (hosted by Alan Freed) ended in disaster. They sold too many tickets, the police had to close the arena, attendees tried to break in, and a huge brawl compelled the musicians to withdraw. The racist attitude of the time was also something we could've done without. Nat King Cole was beaten on stage by some racist dicks, resulting in his refusal to play in the South ever again.

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  9. #9
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    Default Re: The decline of class in music

    Does appearing on stage dressed like a Viking that is ready for battle count as class?

  10. #10

    Default Re: The decline of class in music

    There are a few books around about the rise of adversarial culture, which is basically what you're talking about.

    American anti-intellectualism has a long history, anti-intellectualism in general has a long history and there will always be a lot of people who like stupid, simple, unprofound music.

    Another great American tradition is criminal worship. We love con-artists, the mafia, selfishness, instant gratification and brutality in general, so when you mix the two together you get...

    See above.

    Obviously it's not limited to America, but clearly the rise of semi-criminal, world-hating, uncreative, selfish and stupid music started on American soil.
    Last edited by tullyccro; July 17, 2009 at 12:27 AM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: The decline of class in music

    they look like crap but they sound good, espcially nu-metal & post grunge...

  12. #12

    Default Re: The decline of class in music

    Quote Originally Posted by Downey View Post
    they look like crap but they sound good, espcially nu-metal & post grunge...
    Exactly. That is stupid. No offense but it is. It's not really music. It's more like a drum circle, especially when every instrument is tuned to z minor. Or else the singer's voice is digitized or it's just some big group masterbation to see how many notes can be played in ten seconds.

    Honestly there are probably five guys standing in the middle of the Serengeti playing bongos and two stringed instruments who are more talented than 75% of western "performance artists" with all of their technology. But when you think about it though, they are playing the exact same kind of simple, under-developed .

    Just goes to show. We have limitless access to musical history, theory, recordings, mass-market instruments, etc... and this is the best we can do.

  13. #13
    IronBrig4's Avatar Good Matey
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    Default Re: The decline of class in music

    Just to clarify, I'm not putting down anybody's taste in music. There are some modern pieces I enjoy listening to. My point is modern artists don't seem to put any emphasis on appearance or manners. That is also reflected in their audiences.

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  14. #14
    manofarms89's Avatar Senator
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    Default Re: The decline of class in music

    what are you talking about? the 50s sucked and Johnny Cash was one of the only good things to come out of it. heres what Johnny thinks about class:

    Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 


    @Than: more than half of black music back then was about sex and sorry even classical music gets old after awhile... although it does sound pretty awesome when your high .
    Last edited by manofarms89; July 17, 2009 at 04:43 AM.

  15. #15

    Default Re: The decline of class in music

    Quote Originally Posted by Thanatos View Post
    I honestly think black music died after the 1960s/1970s. Everything after that is just crap. This is mainstream, btw. I don't mean exceptions like Michael Jackson and that sort who don't follow everyone else and go into rap/hip-hop/R&B.

    Ah well. I don't really listen to it anyways, I just listen to classical and orchestral music.
    Hold on. Hip Hop from the 80s and early 90s is pretty decent. And modern non-commercial Hip Hop is good too.


    The real black music is Blues and (black) Gospel though.

  16. #16
    Odovacar's Avatar I am with Europe!
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    Default Re: The decline of class in music

    There was a great social change in music and a couple of changes in socety in general too. I mean in the last 50-60 years
    To name a few: "pop music" turned to be a really great business, with radios, mtv, and various medias, festivals.

    Also popular music advanced to higher levels of recognition. Jazz turned to be a pet of snobs, some rock musicians are recognised as artists, and people (in usa mostly and in west-europe) learn rock and blues guitar in musical schools...Also successfull musicians became heroes of youth, and gained enough money and recognition to rise into the highest class of society.

    Musicians who were simple entertainers, seeking to win the love of audience turned to be self-expressing artists.

    Buddy Holly and his band still played in gray suits with their strats, Hendrix and the beatles looked like crossovers between hussars, baroque-enlightenment nobles and women. Revolutionary attitude, rebellion became fashionable and a mark of succesfull musician.
    Also musical revolutions became permanent. Everyone sought some form of rebellion since beat and rock music.

    Today this rebellion is kinda phony. We are past of this. And we also saw every form of radicalism in clothing. After Marilyn Manson or the New York Dolls
    you just can't be suprised.
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    Bwaho's Avatar Puppeteer
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    Default Re: The decline of class in music

    IronBrig4... you've become that bitter old man that you once resented when you were young

    If you look at the audience, they're enjoying it but they're being quiet. Most crowds at today's rock concerts would be screaming and throwing stuff onto the stage.
    So people today have more confidence and are allowed to have fun rather than being uptight and inhibited?

    Back then, most singers and musicians dressed nicely.
    what do you want? a bunch of yuppies?





    Besides don't you see anything shallow about putting so much emphasis on what singers/performers wear?

    I thought the music was the important thing here and not whether the performer's tie is red or blue.

    Even Elvis wore a tie
    and they wouldn't show Elvis from the waist down because his dancing was "immoral"...

    Today this rebellion is kinda phony. We are past of this. And we also saw every form of radicalism in clothing. After Marilyn Manson or the New York Dolls
    you just can't be suprised.
    I agree. I've been thinking a lot about that actually. Ever since Elvis and the Beatles teenagers have sort of been expected to top what their parents did in their youth. Go crazier with each generation and shock your parents, but like you said it comes to a point where you can't really shock anyone anymore. We're not there yet, but I wonder how long this thing can keep going.

    Although teenage rebellious doesn't always have to be about doing more and more drugs or listening to heavier and heavier metal. By the time the current generation are parents they will be pretty much be numb to heavy rock music, hip hop, promiscuous sex and so on... We could then see their kids taking their teenage revolt in a slightly different direction. Instead of doing more drugs they could become straight edge, start going to church everyday, stop swearing, wait with sex until marriage... that would probably shock the hell out of their parents

  18. #18
    Odovacar's Avatar I am with Europe!
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    Default Re: The decline of class in music

    Quote Originally Posted by Bwaho View Post
    We could then see their kids taking their teenage revolt in a slightly different direction. Instead of doing more drugs they could become straight edge, start going to church everyday, stop swearing, wait with sex until marriage... that would probably shock the hell out of their parents
    Hehe..that reminds me of a friend who was going to sleep even later and later until he started to sleep at a normal time when most people do
    IN PATROCINIVM SVB HORSEARCHER
    quis enim dubitat quin multis iam saeculis, ex quo vires illius ad Romanorum nomen accesserint, Italia quidem sit gentium domina gloriae vetustate sed Pannonia virtute

    Sorry Armenia, for the rascals who lead us.


  19. #19

    Default Re: The decline of class in music

    The class in music had its first stroke when Fats Waller passed away. Then Jelly Roll gave it the second stroke. When Art Tatum died, it was no longer conscious.It gave its last breath when Oscar Peterson gave his.
    If that guy isnt the greatest musical being that ever existed, I am the 12th imam.
    Last edited by Lost Sultan; July 17, 2009 at 08:15 AM.

  20. #20

    Default Re: The decline of class in music

    Mainstream quality has certainly gone down that's for sure.

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