World Leaders Sure Are Sirhy. . .

[Cobra]

They spend years and years on talks and all sorts of things to try anmd bring peace, but yet war still tears our world to pieces.
All they have to do is just buy it on E-Bay. When will they ever learn? Violence is not the answer.
Capitolism is.

So, all we have to do is kill all the communist bastards, and then we can have peace.
Ahem, why is this not working?

[Marshal Qin]

Capitalism funds violence. How else would you describe the military industrial complex's success? Capitalsim killed 'the evil empire' by outproducing them in the arms/research race.

moved to the mudpit...

[Guderian]

I dont know if your post was meant to be a joke but here goes nothing...

Capitalism is not the permanant answer to anything, it's only temporary. If we continue to be capitalists the world will be one big mess in a few centuries. The only people who benefit from capitalism are the ones who already have the money and the power and the very few that these people allow to join them or beat them at thier own game. In America the freedom that most people think they have due to capitalism is an illusion created to maintain order and keep power, and now it's starting to show with things like the patriot act etc. In my experience people in third world countries arent as oppressed as people in the U.S like to think, and at least the forms of oppresions in these countries are straightforward and easy to identify unlike the oppression maintained by the American government/elite/corporations. The good thing about America though is that everybody can voice thier opinion even if everybody else is brainwashed and won't listen due to freedom of speech.

Yes politicians are idiots but that's inevitable with a republic/democratic form of government, they have to try and please everybody all the time to get elected. The same goes for diplomacy, the key is to compromise. Right now it might not look like they are achieving anything but politicians have achieved much in the past with diplomacy, it's only the extremists who ruin everything.

Who and/or what are these "communist bastards" you speak of?

[Marshal Qin]

In my experience people in third world countries arent as oppressed as people in the U.S like to think, and at least the forms of oppresions in these countries are straightforward and easy to identify unlike the oppression maintained by the American government/elite/corporations.

very true! Most people outside chine think of it as some sort of communist police state. Living here certainly dispels that illusion. Most oppression, as you said, is easily identifyable (simplistic) and usually comes in the form of corruption. lol, a huge percentage of the population don't even pay taxes and government records (and accuracy/control of those records) on the population are a joke. Big brother certainly can't watch you here like he can in the developed world.

[Bovril]

For me the most crippling flaw in the sustainablility of capitalism is its failure to account for environmental externalities. Basically, companies won't get hit in the bottom line for damaging the environment.
A major step forward then would be a system of taxation which is to some extend dependant on the externalities a company produces. Small gestures at this have been made, but only a really comprehensive system would have the desired effect.

[MoROmeTe]

Nothing is the final answer and capitalism certainly ain't. As for "buying peace" maybe someone should mail George that offer...

There are many things that are wrong with all systems, be they economical and/or political. It is just that capitalism/consumerism is very adept at hiding its problems and making the appearance of being perfect. And, sadly, there are fools that buy this image...

Well, right now I'm opening a can of beer, as the summer is very hot in Bucharest, Romania, and I say:
"Here's to the last free people in the world! Don't know if I'm one of them, don't know where they are or who they are, but I'll drink to them! Cheers!"

[Tom Paine]

Well, GW has one way to achieve world peace already, created by capitalism. It is known as world destruction. Achieved by building a massive nuclear arsenal in the Cold War, and maintaining it now although there is no reason to do so.

[Cobra]

I was just making fun of the picture. But maybe you didn't see the picture, since I can't get the code to work.

Who and/or what are these "communist bastards" you speak of?

Well, see, the communist bastards is a silly phrase, meant to be synonomous with "evil", because I'm just being silly and making fun of that McCarthyist attitude, and the "communist bastards" are those who would oppose E-Bay, The Peace Bringer. Uh, I guess you can make this serious if you want.
Any ideas on why my picture is a link though? Filename?

[Erik]

I'm pretty sure most wars take place in capitalist countries.

[Tom Paine]

Cobra: you gave us an excuse to debate the achievement of world peace and capitalism vs communism/socialism in one thread. What did you think was gonna happen?
Erik: I suspect you are wrong; all do, mainly because there is no such thing asa communist country and there never has been.

[Honeohvovohaestse]

I was just making fun of the picture. But maybe you didn't see the picture, since I can't get the code to work.

Well, see, the communist bastards is a silly phrase, meant to be synonomous with "evil", because I'm just being silly and making fun of that McCarthyist attitude, and the "communist bastards" are those who would oppose E-Bay, The Peace Bringer. Uh, I guess you can make this serious if you want.
Any ideas on why my picture is a link though? Filename?

:laughing:

I love it. Get dem der evail commies.

[Tom Paine]

Nah; get them evil capitalists, they are the ones that worship money as God and try to overthrow any regime that doesn't agree with them. O wait, this was supposed to be funny....

[Cobra]

W00t. I turned picture see on, and I see it. Anyways, Lame.
I guess that everyone else already had images turned on and did see the picture?

[Guderian]

Yeah i saw the picture, but to be honest i was waiting for someone to bring up this subject so that i could have my say. I was under the impression that it was a joke but when Marshall Qin moved it into the political mudpit i just couldn't resist.

[Tom Paine]

Probably everyone saw it. And some took a say; others took the mickey.

[Marshal Qin]

Cobra: you gave us an excuse to debate the achievement of world peace and capitalism vs communism/socialism in one thread. What did you think was gonna happen?
Erik: I suspect you are wrong; all do, mainly because there is no such thing asa communist country and there never has been.

exactly why it was moved, though the last half of the thread has been a spamfest.....

[John I Tzimisces]

in my opinion, dynasty like families of the rich cannot succeed in the long run under capitolism. Why? The skill that elevated one family member to the upper class cannot be inherited. While his successors may take his money and power...sooner or later, those successors will collapse from their own incompetance, making way for new members of the upper class, who have actual talent, and couldn't succeed while the upper class capitolists reigned, or however you would have it.

And by the way, die hard communists need to realize that their perfect system is only perfect on paper. It will NEVER work in human society. Our personal ambitions, whether we care about the whole more or not, will weigh more. Even if one man has personal ambition, the communist system fails. Just look at the Russian Revolution and what it resulted in. This is not to say i hate communism...on the contrary, quite disappointed.

[Guderian]

in my opinion, dynasty like families of the rich cannot succeed in the long run under capitolism. Why? The skill that elevated one family member to the upper class cannot be inherited. While his successors may take his money and power...sooner or later, those successors will collapse from their own incompetance, making way for new members of the upper class, who have actual talent, and couldn't succeed while the upper class capitolists reigned, or however you would have it

And you accuse communists of having a system that's only good on paper. The way dynasties work has nothing to do with skill, once a family has power they control who get's nominated for election and things like that. Even if you were the greatest businessman in the world you won't get anywhere unless the dynasties allow you to. The exceptions to that rule are people like Bill Gates who achieve something extraordinary. It's true that sooner or later the dynasty might collapse but sooner or later might mean a decade, a century or a millenia.
But in the end it's only a small amount of people who get to live a life of luxury whereas the majority of the population lives in poverty. The lower class in America is the majority of the population not the middle or upper class. With the capitalist system in America you have the lower class opressed and/or brainwashed (using consumerism, the media etc) so they don't cause any trouble. I don't call that a solution.

And by the way, die hard communists need to realize that their perfect system is only perfect on paper. It will NEVER work in human society. Our personal ambitions, whether we care about the whole more or not, will weigh more. Even if one man has personal ambition, the communist system fails. Just look at the Russian Revolution and what it resulted in. This is not to say i hate communism...on the contrary, quite disappointed.

I doubt any die hard communists still exist. When you say it will never work on paper what are you basing that on? If you mean by communism that is purely based on Marxism, it's never been tried before, if you mean USSR communism then your right. But that's not really communism at all, it's more like dictatorship, communism, and feudalism mixed into one.
Like i said in the USSR thread we have already adapted many ideals that stem from communism/socialism. As our society progresses and evolves the nature of man will change and true Marxism might be a possibility. Look back 200 years ago and look how much we have changed. It is up to communist/socialists of today to make sure that the change is for the better.

Marxism=

Fuedalism = A society that no one wants to live in. >
>Capitalism= Infrastructure, new technology, factories etc all being created in a state >
>Socialism= Mixing capitalism with communist ideals >
Communism= The final state that comes from this process of change.

I dont know about the final communist state but iam pro socialist.

[Tom Paine]

Well, the problem with a communist state is that all the world has to be communist and it has to be carried out by trustworthy people. How do you decide who rules? And if only 1 nation is communist then outside influences will enter and create dissatisfaction etc. I would prefer a socialist state.

[Amur_Tiger]

For me the most crippling flaw in the sustainablility of capitalism is its failure to account for environmental externalities.

I'd take this a step further capitalism is impotent against any big problem, be it the enviroment, overpopulation, sustainability...
Capitalism is most effective at keeping things as they are, it isn't a fixer upper, that's communism. That said communism comes at a great risk namely any practical way of implimenting it would require a benevolent ruler of which there are ever so few of in the world, otherwise it spirals down into dictatorship rather quickly. Socialism, the application of milder forms of communist ideal upon a democratic system, is an optimal solution I beleive as it has enough flexilibity to be dependable while still having the power nessesary to deal with the big problems.