ERE tips and advice

[Incontinenta Buttox]

I am hoping to get some good advice on how to play the ERE early on.

I am no noob. I am a MTW veteran and usually play on VH/VH. But I have been getting my shorts pulled down as the ERE.

The problem is the Turks. I usually start by racing to take the two rebel settlements in Anatolia as fast as possible. Every time so far it has led to a confrontation with a full Turkish stack of Elite Cavalry. Every time I gathered up all the best troops I could muster and attacked them. But the Turkish stack is full of very high quality troops who make mincemeat of anything I throw against them.

How do the Turks get access to so many elite troops early on? There just seems to be no counter to them. I have had Turkish light horse archers charge my spearmen head on then proceed to slaughter them in melee. I'm sorry but light cavalry should not be able to charge uphill straight into to fully formed up spearmen and then slaughter them in melee easily.

Don't get me wrong. It's great to have a proper challenge at last. I would just like to know how other players have handled this challenge.

Perhaps I should avoid war with the Turks at all costs early on?

[merlinuscdxx]

What I did was to bait them with a 'weak' city (with a large army hidden nearby) and let them take it. You could also just let them take the rebel settlement and then attack while they are trapped. Once they took the town, I trapped them inside and forted off the river crossings in their territory, placing cheap units inside to block them from forcing an open field battle. Then either fight it as a siege assault or force a sally. Assaulting works well if they don't have a lot of foot units, and forcing a sally/waiting them out (last resort) works if they do, but you suffer a bit for it, which is as it should be. Start recruiting a small to medium mobile army that can intercept their relief attempts (hippotoxotai, trapezitai and toxotai bulked up with some cheap light spears work for this).

Start building your econ like mad at turn 1, and don't hire expensive units until you are actually at war. If you are waiting for a sally, hire lots of pikemen (who are nice and cheap) and start stacking them into your besieging force. Group FM's together in that army, since these will be the only cavalry (besides your starting Kataphraktoi) that can take on the turks' elite stack(s) this early.

If you don't put down the rabid dog now, it will just get worse later on.

[husker9.2]

What I did was to bait them with a 'weak' city (with a large army hidden nearby) and let them take it. You could also just let them take the rebel settlement and then attack while they are trapped. Once they took the town, I trapped them inside and forted off the river crossings in their territory, placing cheap units inside to block them from forcing an open field battle. Then either fight it as a siege assault or force a sally. Assaulting works well if they don't have a lot of foot units, and forcing a sally/waiting them out (last resort) works if they do, but you suffer a bit for it, which is as it should be. Start recruiting a small to medium mobile army that can intercept their relief attempts (hippotoxotai, trapezitai and toxotai bulked up with some cheap light spears work for this).

Start building your econ like mad at turn 1, and don't hire expensive units until you are actually at war. If you are waiting for a sally, hire lots of pikemen (who are nice and cheap) and start stacking them into your besieging force. Group FM's together in that army, since these will be the only cavalry (besides your starting Kataphraktoi) that can take on the turks' elite stack(s) this early.

If you don't put down the rabid dog now, it will just get worse later on.

I agree. Another strategy is to hold higher ground or to only fight you battles in terrain you know i rough or rocky. This is problematic for horse archers and heavy cavalry charges.

[Ma'ahes]

I wouldn't rely on pikes at all, at least not until you destroy the AI script's army spam at the beginning. If they force you into a field battle in which he has mostly HA, you'll be decimated. What I normally do, especially with the current AOR system, is to abandon Trebizond. It will take too long to get up the swordsmen offered to make a difference, and if you recruit for an army there all you will get are levy archers and swords. Not particularly effective against a field Turk army.

From Treb I strike to Sinop, and from Const I strike to the city just south of Dorylaeum. Try to ensure the Turks stop at your borders, noticing your large army ready to take Konya. When you notice the AI moving east, that's when you strike. Normally when I play on VH/VH, the AI decides to expand far beyond Edessa, but is always friends with the Abbasids and Great Seljuks. So since they won't be in a fight, you'll need to strike at the right time. When you see his entire armed forces to the right, strike in the middle of his territory (capital) with all you have. To me, the goal is not to keep the cities. Again, with the current system, it'll do you no good. Sack the middle territories and demolish all buildings. Then, move back west to take Dory, the castle by Konya, and Konya proper. These you will want to keep. Now you have potentially two or three rebel territories that the Ai will try to retake, and then they are worthless.

From there I like to take an army and secure the islands, using my Nicaea and the island fortress to replenish. I even transform the far-east town into a castle to have another native recruitment slot. Now, it sounds easy, but good god, be prepared to lose those Anatolian cities you just took. If it looks like you will not win, demolish every building in the city and take down as many men. For me, the only hard part with the ERE is whittling down those initial stacks of elite troops until all they have are those recruited. And if done right, all the Turks will have to recruit castle-wise is in the far east, far away from the front lines.

[merlinuscdxx]

Ma'ahes, I agree with you on 'not relying on pikes' in field battles, that's why I specified making sure the Turks remain trapped. I use the 'forting off' tactic not to keep them out, but to delay them long enough that they are forced to fight at the gates or in the streets, where pikemen will work well. I don't mind taking lots of losses in the pikes, because the mobile army I've been working on recruiting from Nikaia will take the place of the pikes anyway. If the pikes lose a lot of men it just saves me from having to disband as many. I like my method because it gets that scripted stack out of my way, and anything I can take before the next wave shows up, I get to keep, which means more money and more good troops for me.

[AlexiosK]

I never really had any trouble with the Turks early on. I also play on VH/VH but I have had good success building cheap spearmen with as many professional troops as I can - I upgrade the barracks at Constantinople & Nicea first thing.

I siege Dorylaeum & Amorium right away. I prefer to wait for food to run out instead of assaulting b/c there's the possibility of avoiding combat entirely, and even if you fight, it's easier because the AI will attempt to sally out. I keep kataphracts & other heavy calvary in reserve, but with your other starting calvary (javs + archers) plus the few calvary recruits you can get in those turns, just rush the gates (also with your foot soldiers). You can box the defenders in and cause horrific losses. You'll lose a lot of calvary but otherwise losses will be light- the calvary will stop the enemy from sallying out, and your foot soldiers will get there soon after & start to push them back into the castle (make sure you run, even though it reduces stamina because otherwise your calvary will get pushed back). I also like to siege Seleukeia before the Armenians can grab it (they will probably get to it first but with a small army that the defenders will force to retreat, so if you have one ready, you can siege it then). I find after this I have enough calvary to do the same to the Turks after a few turns, but even if not, I have sufficient spearmen that I can defeat one or two of their armies in the field. Substantial losses but by that time I can recruit replacements pretty quickly and if you sack the turkish capital near Dorylaeum (can't remember the name) it's a lot of money. The thing about the Turks is if you see a smaller army that you can defeat without a lot of losses, then do it, especially if you're on the way to a siege, because their armies are fast & can gang up on you easily. If you have Nicea & Constantinople upgraded ,the steady supply of swordsmen & professional spearmen I find is enough, and I really don't train calvary, just archers & peltosai- although you'll have to pause from time to time because of the casualties you'll take. Don't be afraid to use archers + peltosai as melee troops either, especially against Azabs in combination with hopefully emporer's guard

Also if you can pull it off, a full stack of maybe 2-3 generals, 4 pikemen, and the rest professional spearmen (especially emporer's guard) from constantinople you can capture varna, even with the stack & a half roaming army of rebel horse archers. Siege the city, and then when the roaming army attacks you, send a couple units forward w/ a battering ram, while the rest of your army waits at your starting position. This will bait the horse archers to attack the assaulting units & your spearmen can swamp them. The spearmen will reach there first and are pretty good at holding them, and the pikemen will pin them further- once your assaulting troops get into the city just move them to the center & capture it by the timer. I tend to lose about 50% of my army but I capture Varna quickly and also get rid of a huge rebel horse archer army. The bridge to the north is a good chokepoint for defense also which makes the city that much nicer to have. So at least from this I think pikes are OK in field battles provided you don't lead with them - once you have the enemy engaged, the pikes can pin them.

Once Constantinople & Nicea have the first barracks upgrade I crank out professional soldiers & mainly just peltasoi besides these - not much calvary, a few hipotoxai here & there or occasional javelin calvary. I have seen pelts rout advancing spearmen from their javelins, and emperor's guard can take down stronger units if you just swamp them with even levy spearmen & pelts.

Also don't forget to sack Nicosia early on - I recruit just one unit the first turn and then turn 2 I send the rest of my army to siege it, and assault on the next turn.

[tup]

I just pumped out cheap units and waited for them to take the rebel settlements, which I then took in turn. The troops from Trebizond I sent to their eastern territories, killing one army besieging Amasia and then their eastern cities. In the west it was mostly a stalemate, but taking their eastern territories provides good money I used to get more troops. They had those 3 stacks but didnt attack me for some reason. When I took the rest of Anatolia, they retreated towards Sivas which I managed to take in the end while their armies were away (one I killed), giving the fortress to the Georgians later, who vassalized the Turks in turn who now sit in that town to the east. And I have my Georgian allies in the way of would be aggressors.
So yeah I avoided battles with those armies and instead sneaked around attacking their undefended cities the farthest away from their armies.

[COMIS -3- ΠΑΝΙΩΝΑΡΑ]

At the beginning move all your troops to conquer nearby rebel settlements,then transport the units from Cyprus.After some turns and when you have made some money start recruiting army.An army mostly of levies+some good units (in order to keep your economy in a good level).Attacking the turks is difficult because now they have very strong units and mass army(+they can built heavy infantry with level 2 city barracks,my god ERE cant recruit any strong unit in the starting region of Trebizond and the turks get Tirpan azaps form towns!!!!!).But the key is in quantity not quality,so send the mass armies of levies with some decent units and try to struck them concentrated (i mean you must move all you army stacks together).Choose carefully witch settlement to conquer in order to avoid any gap between your core settlement.Also beware that if you siege Ankyra because i believe there is a garrison script for key cities.