██ How to stop Rams (Instructions)

[johannlo]

Has anyone ever managed to set a ram on fire before it breaks down your gate?

I've set four units of elvish light archers onto a ram before w/ flaming arrows and no dice, still breaks down the gate. I note it does it a LOT quicker than M2TW.

Also you can't target the unit carrying the ram, even if you click on the troops your arhcers continue to aim at the ram itself ie thinning out the unit carrying the ram is not viable anymore?!?

note: can't remember how it worked (setting rams on fire) in vanilla M2TW as I prefer to line up spearmen and watched the AI impale itself, but don't have that option as HE campaign

[axnsan]

You don't really have a strategy of setting siege engines on fire. It's pure luck. Most of the times they burn when you want them not to (like when waiting them at the gates with 3 units of pikemen and 2 units of archers behind just to see their ram got burnt and they all go to the walls )

Like I say, your siege engines are made of tinder while the AI's are made of asbestos.

You CAN target the unit pushing the ram. Just click on the UNIT (ie, make sure the tooltip doesn't have a line that says "Ram : damage 0%" and they will fire in the unit

As far as i remember you do have spearmen as high elves.. (only Eldar, but still spearmen)

[vallu751]

Are you sure you're playing TATW axnsan? Your comments are spot on for MTW 2, but in TATW I'm experiencing the same behavior johannlo is talking about. If I target the unit carrying the ram, all the archers still concentrate on the ram. Also in MTW 2 I had my rams burn up all the time, but never had that happen in TATW.

I wonder if RC changed the ram targeting, I seem to be getting a lot more kills on the unit itself after installing RC.

[tesb]

the best way is to upgrade your towns/castels with balista towers they destroy rams and siege towers more often.

[johannlo]

Thanks, was wondering if I was going insane (ie inability to set ram on fire).

For sure you have eldar spears, but when you don't start with any cities large enough, and then anything large enough you capture you have to wait till 50% culture is reached.... around turn 75 and popping out my first eldar troops from one of TWO cities that can create them (then waiting another 9 turns lol)

[Bela]

Are you sure you're playing TATW axnsan? Your comments are spot on for MTW 2, but in TATW I'm experiencing the same behavior johannlo is talking about. If I target the unit carrying the ram, all the archers still concentrate on the ram. Also in MTW 2 I had my rams burn up all the time, but never had that happen in TATW.

I wonder if RC changed the ram targeting, I seem to be getting a lot more kills on the unit itself after installing RC.

Well, as elves your archers shoot the units behind the ram (they don't have fire arrows), with them it works for me. But with other factions, it's quite hard to target the unit, not the ram (I always turn fire arrows off in order to kill more men in units).
Against rams, the best solution is using siege equipments (to be honest, you have to move them out of the town, and 99% they will be lost by enemy cavalry charge).

[axnsan]

Are you sure you're playing TATW axnsan? Your comments are spot on for MTW 2, but in TATW I'm experiencing the same behavior johannlo is talking about. If I target the unit carrying the ram, all the archers still concentrate on the ram. Also in MTW 2 I had my rams burn up all the time, but never had that happen in TATW.

I wonder if RC changed the ram targeting, I seem to be getting a lot more kills on the unit itself after installing RC.

If you have fire arrows on it's no wonder your units target the ram.

[Myshkin]

Pure luck, that's right.

Of course, the more archer units you use the more you increase the probability they have to burn the ram. Due to the fact you rarely manage to burn it on time, it can't be used as a solid stategy.

Has anyone noticed that archer units cannot fit very well on the walls, when unit size is "huge"?

I reduced to "normal" and now I can have my archers where I want them to be.

Also where do you position you archers when the wall top-down view looks like this?

............................................
----o-----o.............o----o-----
.............| ..............|.............
............o---G-G---o.............
............................................

o: tower (by the way do you get the flags any more? No flags for me... that's quite confusing)
----: horizontal wall section
|: veritcial wall section
G: Gatehouse tower
-: Wall section above gate
.: empty space

Do you place archers at the vertical wall sections?
Do you place archers at the wall section above the gate? (Have you noticed that archers who are packed altogether with no much space to manoeuvre tend not to fire with all their bows?)

Where do you place balistas, catapults and trebuchets? I have heard people are using them as defensive weapons during sieges. Is there any problem with their line of sight and the walls?

[Space Voyager]

If you have a disposable unit attack the ram with it. This will make the unit pushing it to release and fight. The ballistas (wall) sadly stops firing the fiery arrows in the ram when this happens but when the unit grabs the ram again they are back on. It takes some time for them to get on the move again.

This attack can cause enough delay for the ram to be destroyed (especially if you attack the ram itself). No guarantee though, so you may end up just loosing a unit, but more time under your walls also makes more time for the wall and archers to shoot at the enemy...

[axnsan]

Pure luck, that's right.

Of course, the more archer units you use the more you increase the probability they have to burn the ram.

Due to the fact you rarely manage to burn it on time, it can't be used as a vital stategy.

Has anyone noticed that archer units cannot fit very well on the walls, when unit size is "huge"?

I reduced to "normal" and now I can have my archers where I want them to be.

Also where do you position you archers when the wall top-down view looks like this?

............................................
----o-----o.............o----o-----
............| ............|................
............o---G-G---o.............
............................................

o: tower (by the way do you get the flags any more? No flags for me... that's quite confusing)
----: horizontal wall section
|: veritcial wall section
G: Gatehouse tower
-: Wall section above gate
.: empty space

Do you placed archers at the vertical wall sections?
Do you place archers at the wall section above the gate? (Have you noticed that archers who are packed altogether with no much space to manoeuvre tend not to fire with all their bows?)

Where do you place balistas, catapults and trebuchets? I have heard people are using them as defensive weapons during sieges. Is there any problem with their line of sight and the walls?

I play on Huge so I don't have enoguh space to place them in any of those places, but since you're playing on normal, I'd recommend you to place them this way


...................................................
----o-MMM-o.............o-MMM-o-----
.................|..............|..................
............. ...o-M-G-G-M-o.....................
...................................................

BBBBBBBBBBB    BBBBBBBBBBB............

BBBBBBBBBBB    BBBBBBBBBBB............

BBBBBBBBBBB M BBBBBBBBBBB............

BBBBBBBBBBB    BBBBBBBBBBB...........

o: tower
----: horizontal wall section
B - random buildings
A - archers
M - archers on wall
|: veritcial wall section
G: Gatehouse tower
-: Wall section above gate
.: empty space

[Myshkin]

Thanks for your strategy tips!

OK, when the unit finally gets rooted, won't it force the gates to open automatically?

Why did you place an arhcer unit inside the random units? Does this mean they hold the castle inside the walls (if yes, this shouldn't apply for towns?)?

[axnsan]

OK, when the unit finally gets rooted, won't it force the gates to open automatically?

No, if there are enemies close the gate will stay closed no matter what.

[Myshkin]

Good to know! Thanks

Sounds like these militias just got a new job.

[jản]

///

| here is what i do against rams (and of course siege towers):
|
| since fire arrows as you all know are not very effective against
| wooden siege engine, i just don't waste my arrows on them.
| (they are better sprned when shooting at the heavy infantry untis of the enemy)
|
| best way to get rid of the siege engines is just to prevent the
| enemy to use them or at least prevent them from reaching
| the gates and walls - by using cavalry. cavalry units are not
| very usefull in settlements during defending-battles inside the walls.
| use them outside is the only usefull thing for them during a siege battle.
|
| the usage depends on the enemy army and how far they are away
| from your walls. if they are far away and just have one ram
| near he gate, i simply use a cavalry unit to run out and attack
| them. after your cavalry has inflicted some casualties and
| begin to loose own untis, just withdraw them. in most cases
| the enemy units who pushed the ram won't get back to it,
| but run to your walls or back to their general. if they get back
| to grab the rams again simply repeat the cavalry attack.
|
| (best thing here is that the units who are pushing the ram need
| some time to let off from the ram - and in this time your cavalry
| does some serious damage)
|
| if the enemy is too near on your walls just order one or a few
| cavalry units out of the side gates, where no enemy units are
| heading to. than simply do the same charge on the ram but
| this time from the side. it works the same.
|
| after the first ram is "out of order" the AI will try to use the
| next rams. (if they have some - but i guess they never have
| just one) but in most cases they just leave other rams without
| soldiers where they started and get back to them as soon as the
| first one is destroyed. so after your cavalry has dealt with the first
| ram, pull them back right or left to the flanks to position them
| behind the enemy and wait for some infantry to grab the rams
| again and than repeat the attack to them.
|
| but as metioned before - you have to watch out, if your
| units rout. they will run into the settlement and the gate
| opens, if there are no enemy units near it. and if you have own
| troops located near the gates, the gate will not close again.
| so just move your troops away from the gate or withdraw your
| cavalry through the side gates before the start to rout.
|
| this all works for siege towers too. and you can use all other units
| too, because some faction have no cavalry to waste (HE, Dwarves).
| (but they are slower and probalbly will not make it back into the
| settlements alive. but cheap militia is okay for that purpose.)
|
| here is a sketch for that:

Click to view content: 

[Æsir]

///

here is what i do against rams (and of course siege towers):

since fire arrows as you all know are not very effective against
wooden siege engine, i just don't waste my arrows on them.
(they just fire at the heavy infantry untis of the enemy)

best way to get rid of the sige engines is just to prevent the
enemy to use them or ate least prevent them from reaching
the gates and walls - by using cavalry. cavalry units are not
very usefull in settlement defending battles inside the walls.
this tactic is he only usefull for them during a siege battle.

the usage depends on the enemy army and how far they are away
from your walls. if they are far away and just have one ram
near he gate, i simply use a cavalry unit to run out and attack
them. after your cavalry has inflicted soem casualties and
beginn to loose own untis just withdraw them. in most cases
the enemy units who pushed the ram won't get back to it
but run to your walls or back to their general. if they get back
to grab the rams agains simply repeat the cavalry attack.
(best think here is that the units pushing the ram need some
time to let off from the ram - and in this time your cavalry
does some serious harm)

if the enemy is to near on your walls just order one or a few
cavalry units out of the side gates, where no enemy units are
heading to. than simply do the same charge on the ram but
this time from the side. it works the same.

after the first ram is "out of order" the AI will try to use the
next rams. (if they have some - but i guess they never have
just one) but in most cases theyjust leave them where they
started and get back if the first one is destroyed. so after your
cavalry has dealt with the first ram, pull them back right or
left to the flanks to position them behind the enemy and wait
for some infantry to grab the rams again and repeat the attack
to them.

but as meteioned before - you have to watch out, if your
units routing. they will run into the settlements and the gate
opens if ther are no enemy unit near it. and if have own troops
located near the gates the gate will not close again.
so just move troops away from the gate or withdraw your cavalry
through the side gates before the start to rout.

this all works for siege towers too. and you can use all other
too, becasue some faction have no cavalry to waste (HE, Dwarves).

here is a sketch for that:

Click to view content: 

That sounds like cheating to me

I'm ordering cavalry to left the city trough side gates and just strike in enemys rear at middle of battle (when the gates are already open).

[Poet]

what's the best faction in third age?

[Æsir]

what's the best faction in third age?

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=268700

Gondor and High Elves are leading

[jản]

That sounds like cheating to me

I'm ordering cavalry to left the city trough side gates and just strike in enemys rear at middle of battle (when the gates are already open).

how can counter attacks be cheating. so you really thing that all
besieged armies in medieval times has just waited for the vast superior
enemy knowing they never sill survive, when they break the gates and
walls. come on. you simply use a unit to defeat another unit and
make them unable to fight anymore.

[Bela]

That sounds like cheating to me

I'm ordering cavalry to left the city trough side gates and just strike in enemys rear at middle of battle (when the gates are already open).

Why should it be a cheat? It's called tactics much more IMO.

Anyway in the middle ages, rushing cavalry to the sieging armies was absolutely ordinary part of warfare. Running out - crashing archers, siege weapons and light infantry- then getting back to the fort. It works in TW also (ok, AI does not use this possibility. But has garrison script.)

[Æsir]

how can counter attacks be cheating. so you really thing that all
besieged armies in medieval times has just waited for the vast superior
enemy knowing they never sill survive, when they break the gates and
walls. come on. you simply use a unit to defeat another unit and
make them unable to fight anymore.

AI can't counter tactics like you described. It's something like hunt down the enemie's foot general at the start of the battle.