Broken Crescent 2.02 Campaign With Special Rules (BC 2.02 WSR) - KYPCHACKS ARE AVAILABLE

[CiviC]

The model for this campaign is Stainless Steel Early Imperial Campaign with special rules.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=250695

We will play with patch 2.02.

This is the list of playable factions :

1. Turkish Sultanate - Zombimode ; Lordovic ; A.I.
2. Eastern Roman Empire - Cyrus Kabir ; crazyguy1916 ; Cyrus Kabir ; A.I.
3. Kingdom of Georgia - Oman2nd
4. Kingdom of Armenia - CtrAltDe1337 ; A.I.
5. Eastern Latin Empire - Kaizer Merlox ; spanish_emperor ; Commander Ruunu
6. Ayyubid Sultanate - Commander Ruunu
7. Abbasid Caliphate - Cooltosha
8. Great Seljuks - aslanamca
9. Khwarezm Shah - garato ; TriforceV ; A.I.
10. Sultanate of Ghazni - aqua ; Gladius_Maximus ; A.I.
11. Ghorid Emirate - Nakharar ; aqua
12. Solanki Rajputs - Empedocles ; SoulBlade
13. Kypchak Empire - Sarkiss ; Gladius_Maximus ; AVAILABLE
14. Kingdom of Makuria - aoinois ; crazyguy1916 ; A.I.
15. Imamate of Oman - CiviC
16. Malikate of Sindh - spanish_emperor ; Gladius_Maximus ; A.I.

The rules for the campaign are :

1. No Jihads or Crusades (I guess they are disabled anyway).

2. Limited use of spies. It is forbidden for spies to open the gates in sieges or for assassins to kill family members or generals or to sabotage buildings. NEW* Also it's forbiden for diplomats to bribe settlements armies or generals.

3. Autoresolve battles - this is the most fair way to even the odds, I know some will say that is not perfect, but it's better then a battle where a human player confronts AI and gets every time "Heroic Victories". Believe me, after a few heroic victories against AI, this part of the game isn't so fun anymore.

4. No fog of war. The game will be very transparent this way and cheating or breaking the rules will be harder to achieve as everybody can see everybody. It is also realistic to know what happens in the world you live in. It's also fun to see how everybody's evolving and what everybody's doing.

5. Manage all cities. You can set taxes even without a governor in your city.

6. It is forbidden for players to exchange settlements in order to get free units. The break of this rule will be judged case by case.

7. No Merchant fort exploit.

8. You must send a private message to the next player to inform him he's next. Also players can subscribe to the thread to be informed about new posts. This is how you can do it (courtesy of Empedocles)

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9. The turns must be taken in maximum 24 hours (shorter times are recomended), only in exceptional cases and for justified reasons 48 hours are permited.

You can propose any other anti abuse rules.

Such a campaign is easy to play even for begginers and tends to be faster as you don't have to play the battles (this is sometimes very time consuming).

[Empedocles]

Solanki Rajputs!

NO MERCHANT FORT SPLOIT!

[Nakharar]

Oman please atm

I want to be Oman in 1 BC2 campaign but if i dont in Triforces one i will be here,

[aslanamca]

Great Seljuks please.I am glad to join to a campaign which has a good administor.

[garato]

KWAREZM for me.please
But which version of BC?

[Nakharar]

Im Oman in other campaign now so can i change in this one too Ghorids please

[TriforceV]

Can someone please explain to me whats the point of limiting spies in an auto-resolve game?

I can understand where people would get upset with spies opening up a gate, because then they can abuse the stupid AI defending cities/forts, but you couldn't pull that kind of crap in autoresolve,

I mean, Ive seen plenty of people whine and complain about spies, but never with autoresolve on, and for that matter....

2. Limited use of spies. It is forbidden for spies to open the gates in sieges or for assassins to kill family members or generals or to sabotage buildings.

4. No fog of war. The game will be very transparent this way and cheating or breaking the rules will be harder to achieve as everybody can see everybody. It is also realistic to know what happens in the world you live in.

It's not exactly Limiting the use of spies and assassins, sounds more like your rendering completely and utterly useless with these rules.

Spies are worthless, because they can't open gates, but also because without the fog of war, what exactly is there to spy on?
And the assassins being unable to kill anyone that really matters (sabatoge,generals,familes), whats the point right?, logically the only thing an assassin can kill with your rules is another agent, and since priests/assassins/spies are all pretty useless, they also become quite useless

Sounds to me like the game will just end up being a muscle match of who can pump out the largest troops, troops which everyone in the game can see coming thanks to no-fog-of-war..

Also campaign on BC 2.0 where most of the new content with respect to the class/tier system went into the actual battlemode, it seems like a waste not to actually take part it in, having said that though,

Personally, I'd love to try an Autoresolve game, however.
the no-fog-of-war, and silly restrictions of spies/assassins i could defiantly do with out,
if there's anyways to change or adjust these rules, please let me know

just a thought, get back to me

[Nakharar]

i agree with triforce, i will play, but restricting spies in a autoresolve isnt excellent and hes right we can see each others attacks coming so it will just be a matter of as Triforce said pumpng out the best troops

[aslanamca]

Yes civic,triforce is right there is no point restricting spies in an autoresolve game.

[CiviC]

To respond to some critiques to the rules.
First of all there is already such a campaign going and it works very fine.
I disabled the use of agents because they are overpowered : for example with assassins you can destroy a faction by going into a killing spree and exterminating all the family tree (I did that in a few campaigns). Spies are also something very overpowered because almost every siege becomes a game of "opening the gates". As the game advances every player spams the map with agents that in the end it doesn't matter if you have a good economy, good troops, etc. it matters if you overwhelmed your opponent with agents. Triforce said "Sounds to me like the game will just end up being a muscle match of who can pump out the largest troops ..." - well I can say that with no limits to the use of agent the game will just end up being a muscle match of who can pump out the largest numbers of agents.

With no spies opening gates you have to siege for at least a turn the cities or to bring siege machines (they are slower then the rest of the army) - this way you have more strategic thinking to do and the game is closer to historic reality. The problem is that spies opening the gates is the rule in these campaigns, or in reality how many times that happened? In this campaign you'll have to siege the hard way, no shortcuts.

Spies will not be usseless as someone said, but they will do the job they were originally meant, SPYING - even there is no fog of war, you still have to use spies to see the info about settlements and armies. As for assassins they will get rid you of the annoying merchants, priests and other agents.

And a HINT : if you travel always through forests your enemy won't be able to see you coming.

[Nakharar]

i think we should either put spies in or remove FoW, FoW is very stupid i mean its cool to be realistic and see everything but its defies the point of tactics, someone else can see a attack coming to him from so many turns away. Can see how strong his city is. Can see where his armies are.

+ with autoresolve on who will care about spies opening gates, the only reason i ever did that in BC before hotseat was to get the sacking money instantly or stop a relief army coming. Most of the time i did it so i could do the fight so in autoresolve it wont matter...

The only reason im still in this is cause of autoresolve turns should be short..

[Sarkiss]

Nakharar beat me to it, i'd go for Kypchak please.

i think FOG should definitely be on guys

EDIT: can someone explain for is merchant fort thingy please?
EDIT 2: doesnt keeping your own spy (not sure about assasins, anyone?) in the city makes it much harder for enemy spy to open the gates? doesnt the same apply when an agent is traveling with your FM? doesnt this make him a harder target for enemy assasins?

thanks

[TriforceV]

To respond to some critiques to the rules.
First of all there is already such a campaign going and it works very fine.
I disabled the use of agents because they are overpowered : for example with assassins you can destroy a faction by going into a killing spree and exterminating all the family tree (I did that in a few campaigns). Spies are also something very overpowered because almost every siege becomes a game of "opening the gates". As the game advances every player spams the map with agents that in the end it doesn't matter if you have a good economy, good troops, etc. it matters if you overwhelmed your opponent with agents. Triforce said "Sounds to me like the game will just end up being a muscle match of who can pump out the largest troops ..." - well I can say that with no limits to the use of agent the game will just end up being a muscle match of who can pump out the largest numbers of agents.

With no spies opening gates you have to siege for at least a turn the cities or to bring siege machines (they are slower then the rest of the army) - this way you have more strategic thinking to do and the game is closer to historic reality. The problem is that spies opening the gates is the rule in these campaigns, or in reality how many times that happened? In this campaign you'll have to siege the hard way, no shortcuts.

Spies will not be usseless as someone said, but they will do the job they were originally meant, SPYING - even there is no fog of war, you still have to use spies to see the info about settlements and armies. As for assassins they will get rid you of the annoying merchants, priests and other agents.

And a HINT : if you travel always through forests your enemy won't be able to see you coming.

Listen Civic, I'm just suggesting this autoresolve game might be more interesting, if you allowed spies/assassins to do their business, and to keep fog of war on.

spaming agents might be a problem in a normal game, but with autoresolve. there is not reason to assume it should, It doesn't matter how many agents you have, without army or economy, you won't be able to fend off who a stronger opponent , think about it (no more easy victories with AI).

and as for assassins.
This is again another dynamic to the game, It isn't as EASY as you would think to kill off an entire family of a large nation, first you would need many adequate assassins and spies to detect family members (something which would take you atleast 10-15 turns), and then it is difficult to kill leaders of a kingdom, or generals supported under large armies, because they are given a bonus, Often even my best spy 4-5 eyes, only gets a 5% chance at killing the king.. Secondly for kingdoms with low family members, adoption process becomes accelerated, Finally if you realize your being targeted by high quality assassins, then keep your generals hidden in trees, and/or devise strategy to avoid it.
The killing of full family trees, is only an option later in the game, and affects the people that would have wound up dead anyways because they were already struggling to survive in the first place.

Look spies/assassins, aren't your enemy, they aren't overpowered, especially considering its autoresolve, what they do is make the game more interesting, with a whole new dimension of the game, the challenges the dry convention of "who has the biggest baddest armies", it gives people an option, or available alternatives in dealing with large armies...

And Finally, Fog of War, hiding in tress is one thing, but this is BC, most kingdoms like KOJ/Ayyubid/Makuria/Turks/seljuks/kwarez don't have any trees. furthermore, when you talk about realism of spies opening gates, how unrealistic is it for everyone to know everything that goes on in the whole map all the time?
Maybe they all had crystal balls in the past to revealed the map of Middle-earth,, i mean Middle-east

Anyways, Im just debating this with you, because I would love to join this campaign, if you can manage to get it straiten out of course

Nakharar beat me to it, i'd go for Kypchak please.

i think FOG should definitely be on guys

EDIT: can someone explain for is merchant fort thingy please?
EDIT 2: doesnt keeping your own spy (not sure about assasins, anyone?) in the city makes it much harder for enemy spy to open the gates? doesnt the same apply when an agent is traveling with your FM? doesnt this make him a harder target for enemy assasins?

thanks

EDIT:Answer to Edit 1 = A merchant fort is when you build a fort right on a resource, (with a general), then your merchants can enter into the fort and trade with that resource, because of the fort, you can add like 20 or so amount of merchants into the fort all profiting from one resource, not to mention making it impossible for other merchants to compete.
Its a bug and it was fixed in Kingdoms.

Answer to Edit 2 = Exactly!, most people do not build many spies/assassins during their first campaign because they are used to AI never using spies effectively, and then later, when they are bum rushed with a few spies/assassins, they recieve a rude awakening. *OMFG, Spies are so BS* and their first reaction is to say its cheating, and have it banned.
However, experience campaigners know its a learning curve, and that the best defense for assassins/spies is assassins/spies, And once you start building it early to compete with other people, then the agents seem very much balanced and adds a whole new strategy/dynamic to the game.

[Kaizer Merlox]

And Finally, Fog of War, hiding in tress is one thing, but this is BC, most kingdoms like KOJ/Ayyubid/Makuria/Turks/seljuks/kwarez don't have any trees.

... What your trying to say... Basically if you are not the steppes of the kypchak or the insane jungles of India... There is no trees....?XD

[CiviC]

I have to repeat myself : as a game advances the agents get a disproportionate importance and the player who spams the map with agents has a huge advantage. It gets to the point that wars become "wars of agents", I know it very well from previous BC campaign; for me that takes the fun out of the game - I know how to use agents and Triforce knows it even better, but I want to feel as a King of my faction when I'm playing not as a CIA director. I wonder how many spies Crusaders took with them to open the gates of cities and castles in Holy Lands?!? The whole concept of "opening the gates" is unhistorical and absurd, considering that in our games it is the rule not the exception.

As for FoW, it is not realistic to not know how many provinces a faction owns, what provinces changend hands, where are the settlements, or if a huge army is marching from one point to another.

As I said, this campaign is something DIFFERENT from the usual campaigns, if players want to try a different experience they are welcomed here.

[TriforceV]

I have to repeat myself : as a game advances the agents get a disproportionate importance and the player who spams the map with agents has a huge advantage. It gets to the point that wars become "wars of agents", I know it very well from previous BC campaign; for me that takes the fun out of the game - I know how to use agents and Triforce knows it even better, but I want to feel as a King of my faction when I'm playing not as a CIA director.

As for FoW, it is not realistic to not know how many provinces a faction owns, what provinces changend hands, where are the settlements, or if a huge army is marching from one point to another.

As I said, this campaign is something DIFFERENT from the usual campaigns, if players want to try a different experience they are welcomed here.

Anyways, I think your missing my point, about the situation with agents being completely different because of the autoresolve, but I digress, Its not my say how the admin should run his/her own game. And I shall leave it at that,

Good luck with your campaign Civic.

[garato]

"...and as for assassins.
This is again another dynamic to the game, It isn't as EASY as you would think to kill off an entire family of a large nation, first you would need many adequate assassins and spies to detect family members (something which would take you atleast 10-15 turns)... "by Triforce

Without a debates, I d like to remind to Triforce.I killed the Seljuks leader on 3th turn in BC1.5 HS.And Seljuks faction went to hell.

[Sarkiss]

ill give this game a shot in either way, but i beg to disagree here.

As for FoW, it is not realistic to not know how many provinces a faction owns, what provinces changend hands, where are the settlements, or if a huge army is marching from one point to another.

tell that to Scipio trying to intercept Hannibal at Marcelle, or Hittiai waiting for Ramses arrival in the wrong place. history is full of examples even when there are two bordering provinces concerned.

seing everything on the map is ridiculous. you can turn FOG off for game reasons but dont say that it'd make game more realistic, this is absurd.

all the info you gather is gathered through emmysaries, spies, gossips and such. and even then most of this info will be outdated by the time you received it. they didnt have sattelites back then.

spies do play a very important role, and are half of your success. read Sun Tzu.

[CiviC]

Sarkiss, this is medieval era, not Antiquity. News travelled fast already and there was no "Terra Incognita" in Middle East. One turn represents one year (or half a year?), anyways more then sufficient to find out what is going on in the world. It's absurd to think you can keep secret the location of Baghdad, or who owns Constantinople or that Mongols invaded Khwarezm.

But I'll give you an example to how spies are unrealistic : lets say FoW is turned on, you are Ayyubids and you have one spy in Khwarezm near Samarkand. It took to that spiy 4-5 turns to get there, but somehow he can transmit to you infos about Samarkand in real time. How can he do that? Maybe by satelite or e-mail? If a spy who is at the end of the map can inform you instantly, why is no FoW more unrealistically?

[TriforceV]

"...and as for assassins.
This is again another dynamic to the game, It isn't as EASY as you would think to kill off an entire family of a large nation, first you would need many adequate assassins and spies to detect family members (something which would take you atleast 10-15 turns)... "by Triforce

Without a debates, I d like to remind to Triforce.I killed the Seljuks leader on 3th turn in BC1.5 HS.And Seljuks faction went to hell.

I remember, I also remember correctly that you did all this without the use of assassins.
So I don't see how this point has any relevance, except maybe to suggest that the death of family tree can happen through war and not simply by assassins.