Cannon vs. Basilisk

[Fakir]

Which is better to use in the long term?

From bombard to cannon (incl. Culverin), all of the guns have the same upkeep cost, so using the latest one is a no-brainer. But the Basilisk costs more! It is clear to me that the Basilisk is better. However, is its increased power worth the extra 150/turn upkeep?

I haven't used gunpowder much, so I would like to hear from those of you who have.

Please discuss!

[Nazgûl Killer]

Well, to be honest, I find all cannons exactly the same... I mean... They all pretty much do the same job, knock down a few walls and kill soldiers... The question is: Do you want 500 holes and not enough units to run through them or 5 holes and enough units to crush your enemy?

[Fakir]

Right - Not what I was asking!

I usually have two pieces of artillery with me, no more, so I do see what you're saying though. Still off-topic.

[Nazgûl Killer]

Well, your question... Yes.

Basilisk is pure ownage against buildings and soldiers, no other cannon is better... But... I still stand by my earlier comment.

[Silent Assassin]

The best cannons are probably

Basilisk for buildings and the Serpentines for anti-manpower

[Fakir]

Hmmmm maybe I should have asked this in an English-speaking forum...

[Surgeon]

I believe the Basilisk has a slightly longer range than other cannons, except the Monster Bombard. Not sure if it's worth the additional cost though.

[Mithrane]

Fakir... I understand your desire to comment and engage in discussion. I understand you desire for assistance on topics which you yourself do not feel you understand well enough. These things I understand. What I do not understand, however, is your attitude of hostility and rudeness. I highly suggest you attempt to approach those giving you advise from a more amiable direction. "Advice... is a form of nostalgia. Dispensing it ... is a way of fishing up the past from the disposal and wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts, and recycling it for more than it's worth."

Now, as to the point of this thread... by the time one reaches the stage of the game in which they will have access to basilisks, etc, one is likely in an economic position such that the extra 150/turn will not greatly harm their economy. I, personally, on the rare occasions I have use for cannons, will limit myself to 2-4 armies with the sole purpose of capturing castles. Those armies I will equip with 2-4 of the best available cannon for each army, with the intent of cycling them out for reinforcements once they've spent their ammunition. I have found that those times in which the basilisk or serpentine was available, the difference was noticable. Also, due to my reliance on firm and robust economies, the extra 1200/turn does not phase me at this stage of the game.

[NobleNick]

The below stats are from brandybarrel's FAUST for M2TW v1.2. I have added a metric labeled "10-turn cost," which gives an idea of the true total cost of a unit, based on a unit life expectancy of 10 turns.

Artillery   Cost  upkeep   10-turn cost   Att_Bldg   Att_Men  Ammo   Range
Culverin     800    250        3300          230        65     30     425   
Cannon       870    250        3370          250        65     30     380
Serpentine   700    150        2200           10        65     36     450
Basilisk    1080    400        5080          330        65     30     450

I have limited exposure to artillery, since my M2TW long campaigns have always ended before I or my opponents get any gunpowder units at all. However, I have used artillery some in Kingdoms campaigns, and have read a lot of threads on the subject. Here is my 2-cents worth:

The extra range on the culverin over the cannon is worth the very slight hit on attack power vs. buildings, since I usually use these as anti-personnel weapons, and often against units inside settlements. But the lower cost and excellent range of serpentines make them a much better buy than either of the former two, for the anti-personnel mission.

For anti-building: the Basilisk is not the best buy if you figure simply on fire power per florin. It would be more cost effective to use 3 cannon, for 10110 total cost (or even 3 culverin, for 9900), which have slightly more total fire power against buildings and 50% more firepower agianst personnel than 2 basilisks (total cost = 10160). HOWEVER, if you are going after tough opponents in fortresses and the like, using the 2 basilisks opens up an extra slot in your stack (for another basilisk, if you please).

So, my rankings, from best to worst:

Most Cost-effective Anti- personnel Artillery

1.  Serpentine
2.  Culverin
3.  Cannon
4.  Basilisk

Most Cost-effective Anti-building Artillery

1.  Cannon
2.  Culverin
3.  Basilisk
(Serpentine is so bad it is not even ranked in this list)

Best general purpose spam artillery: Culverin

Best piece of artillery to have for assaulting Fortresses and Citidels: Basilisk.

I hope that helps.

[Fakir]

I hope that helps.

Thank you! +rep

[spartan117]

I currently do not have the vanilla data unpacked but cant simply one who has it unpacked look at the projectile.txt? There you will find your accuracy and other important stats. I dont know it off hand however maybe there is a difference there that would account for the increase in upkeep.

Surely including those values will yield the best results in the analysis of cannon, basilisk, etc..

[Fakir]

Surely including those values will yield the best results in the analysis of cannon, basilisk, etc..

Sorry, but no.

[Don_yuri]

Fakir, people are trying to give you advice and if you keep acting so hostile towards them, next time you ask a question noones gonna awnser. You should be more greatfull that this many people read, and tried to correctly awnser your questions.

[beast18]

The below stats are from brandybarrel's FAUST for M2TW v1.2. I have added a metric labeled "10-turn cost," which gives an idea of the true total cost of a unit, based on a unit life expectancy of 10 turns.

Artillery   Cost  upkeep   10-turn cost   Att_Bldg   Att_Men  Ammo   Range
Culverin     800    250        3300          230        65     30     425   
Cannon       870    250        3370          250        65     30     380
Serpentine   700    150        2200           10        65     36     450
Basilisk    1080    400        5080          330        65     30     450

I have limited exposure to artillery, since my M2TW long campaigns have always ended before I or my opponents get any gunpowder units at all. However, I have used artillery some in Kingdoms campaigns, and have read a lot of threads on the subject. Here is my 2-cents worth:

The extra range on the culverin over the cannon is worth the very slight hit on attack power vs. buildings, since I usually use these as anti-personnel weapons, and often against units inside settlements. But the lower cost and excellent range of serpentines make them a much better buy than either of the former two, for the anti-personnel mission.

For anti-building: the Basilisk is not the best buy if you figure simply on fire power per florin. It would be more cost effective to use 3 cannon, for 10110 total cost (or even 3 culverin, for 9900), which have slightly more total fire power against buildings and 50% more firepower agianst personnel than 2 basilisks (total cost = 10160). HOWEVER, if you are going after tough opponents in fortresses and the like, using the 2 basilisks opens up an extra slot in your stack (for another basilisk, if you please).

So, my rankings, from best to worst:

Most Cost-effective Anti- personnel Artillery

1.  Serpentine
2.  Culverin
3.  Cannon
4.  Basilisk

Most Cost-effective Anti-building Artillery

1.  Cannon
2.  Culverin
3.  Basilisk
(Serpentine is so bad it is not even ranked in this list)

Best general purpose spam artillery: Culverin

Best piece of artillery to have for assaulting Fortresses and Citidels: Basilisk.

I hope that helps.

Basilisks for Buildings
Serpentines for Soldiers
Culverins, better than Cannons, Covering everything, for in the middle everything