Bulkeley's Regiment

[Didz]

Is there any known issue with TROM and the Special Forces Units?

I only ask because I finally got round to recruiting Bulkeley's Regiment in my French campaign and when they appeared on the battlefield just now they had the wrong colour coats.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Not sure if this is a consequence of using TROM, or whether its one of the other MOD's causing it.

I was also using the Proper_Militia_v11 and Ancient_Regime_France_V04_Patch.

[Chevalier IX]

hmmm...that is actually the same colour coats I have always seen them in,for even though the CA promo art has them wearing red coats I have always seen them wearing a very ancien regime style greyish colour

[Yarkis de Bodemloze]

I think they actually look like this in vanilla.

[Johan217]

I don't have DLC, but I do have the Special Forces edition. And this is how they've always looked. If you tell me they should be wearing red coats I can easily arrange that

[Didz]

Well yes they should be wearing red coats, all the Irish Brigade regiments in the service of France did, and the cover art shows them wearing red coats so if thats the vanilla colour scheme then CA got it wrong again.

The Irish Brigade wore red coats throughout the eighteenth century with different coloured facings to distinguish each regiment. In 1757 Bulkeley's Regiment had green facings, Clare's yellow, Dillon's black and Roth's dark blue with white braiding. The 1791 provisional regulations (on the eve of the disestablishment of the Irish Brigade) gave black facings to all four regiments with only minor distinctions to distinguish each unit.

Extract: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Brigade_(French)




Dillons Regiment Soldier and Regimental Colour.

The red coats worn by both Irish and Scottish Regiments in foreign service were intended to indicate that these were loyal Jacobite Troops in the service of a foreign power intent or restoring Jacobite rule to Britain.

[Destraex]

I can confirm that some Irish units wore red.
I beleive the Irish were instrumental against British while fighting withtr the french at fontenoy. They were called the wilde geese I believe.

A battle with Swiss, British and Irish would be very confusing

[Johan217]

This better?



Just add the folders and files from the .zip to trom_core_part_2.pack. Or be patient for another 2 weeks and we'll include them in our next major update.

[Johan217]

The 1791 provisional regulations (on the eve of the disestablishment of the Irish Brigade) gave black facings to all four regiments with only minor distinctions to distinguish each unit.

So I gather that the Irish (and presumably also Scottish) regiments were disbanded after the French Revolution. Do you know if the post-revolutionary French army maintained any foreign regiments? More specifically, what could we use to replace these units in the game after a revolution?

[Didz]

This better?

Great thanks a lot. Weird that the vanilla unit doesn't even match the promotional image though.

[Didz]

So I gather that the Irish (and presumably also Scottish) regiments were disbanded after the French Revolution. Do you know if the post-revolutionary French army maintained any foreign regiments? More specifically, what could we use to replace these units in the game after a revolution?

Hmm! well the French Imperial Army (Napoleon's Army) certainly had foreign regiments in it, but I'm not so sure about the republic. I'll do a bit of research and see what I can find.

From what I've seen in my French Campaign the Revolutionary Army just uses the same skins as the Royalist Army anyway, so its a bit academic.

Foriegn units in the service of the French Republic:

The Coptic Legion: Formed in 1798, and consisting of volunteers from the christian population of Egypt, the Copts. But later included Berbers, Arabs, Turks and Moors. Uniform was French style, grenadiers wearing a red plume and red hats, coat was green with yellow facings, trousers/pants were white or natural coloured.

Dromedary Corps: Really a dragoon regiment but mounted on camels. Its uniform was constantly being changed but usually had a hussar style. The headgear changed rapidly from turban, to bicorne hat, to various styles of shako.

Danube Legion: Formed in 1796, and consisting of volunteer Polish Emigres, the legion fought in Italy during 179801800. This unit wore a uniform which was a mix of Polish and French styles.

On a more general note, I get the impression that whilst officially all foriegn regiments were disbanded in 1791, most seem to have just had their names changed. Quite how many of the foriegn soldiers remained with the colours under the new regime is difficult to determine, but the regiments themselves can trace their history back through the revolution to their Royalist Heretage.

For examples the Royal-Suédois became the 89th Regiment.

However, according to the history of the Irish Brigade it was disbanded and absorbed into the French Revolutionary Army. Most of the Irish soldiers left the service in 1792, when Louis LXVI was deposed as their oath of loyalty was to him not the French people. Although Napoleon later raised a small Irish Regiment.

Found this on the Dillon Regiment. It remained faithful to France after the French Revolution, though it was transformed into the 87th Line Infantry Regiment in 1791 before being dissolved in 1793, with its first battalion becoming the 157th Line Infantry Regiment and the second battalion becoming the 158th Line Infantry Regiment.

[There is quite a nice table here http://xenophongroup.com/mcjoynt/regts.htm of Revolutionary units that participated in the American Revolution, which shows their Revolutionary Army and Ancient Regime designations. Dillon appears as part of the 87e RI. there is an even better table here http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=U...esult&resnum=6 which shows the former titles of every revolutionary infantry regiment and their former nationality. The 87e, 88e and 92e are shown as Irish. Apparently the 11 Swiss Regiments were excluded from this absorbtion process and retained their original Regimental titles.]

It seems the basic problem that the revolutionary government had with foreign troops stemmed from their actions and employment during the revolution itself. When most French units were at best ineffectual and in some cases such as the Maison de Roi actually defected to the revolution, the foriegn regiments remained loyal to their oath to Louis LXVI and marched on Paris to support the King. This act of loyalty was not appreciated by the revolutionary government and led to a general mistrust of these regiments and foriegn troops in general. The general response seems to have been to strip such regiments of their identify and traditions and to attempt to absorb them into mass of new demi-brigades. However, it does seem that most regiments of the Ancient Regime continued to wear their original Royal Uniforms after the renaming and merging process, whether this means that the Dillon Regiment for example continued to wear is red coat in its new guise as the 87th Regiment, I have yet to determine.

[Johan217]

Let's say anything before 1814 is acceptable

[Didz]

Eureka! found it. Just found the uniform details of all 12 Foreign Regiments in the Revolutionary Army prior to the final reforms of 15 January 1792. After this date they would have been uniformed in the standard French Infantry uniform with the new distinctions, but prior to that date they were dressed as follows

Regiment	AR Regt	Nationality	Coat	Lapels	Collar	Cuffs	Cuff-Flaps	Buttons	Pockets
53e RI	Alsace	German	Sky Blue	Scarlet	Scarlet	Scarlet	Scarlet	White	Vertical
62e RI	Salm Salm	German	Sky Blue	Scarlet	Sky Blue	Sky Blue	Scarlet	White	Vertical
77e RI	La Marck	German	Sky Blue	Scarlet	Scarlet	Scarlet	Scarlet	White	Vertical
87e RI	Dillon	Irish	Red	Black	Black	Black	Black	Yellow	Vertical
88e RI	Berwick	Irish	Red	Black	Red	Black	Red	Yellow	Vertical
89e RI	Royal Suedois	German/Swedish	Sky Blue	Scarlet	Scarlet	Scarlet	Scarlet	White	Vertical
92e RI	Walsh	Irish	Red	Black	Black	Red	Black	Yellow	Horizontal
94e RI	Hesse-Darmstadt	German	Sky Blue	Scarlet	Sky Blue	Scarlet	Sky Blue	White	Horizontal
96e RI	Nassau	German	Sky Blue	Scarlet	Scarlet	Sky Blue	Scarlet	White	Horizontal
98e RI	Bouillon	German	Sky Blue	Black	Black	Black	Black	White	Horizontal
99e RI	Royal Deux-Ponts	German	Sky Blue	Black	Sky Blue	Black	Sky Blue	White	Horizontal
101e RI	Royal Liegeois	Leige	Sky Blue	Black	Black	Sky Blue	Black	White	Horizontal

Might as well add the Swiss Regiments as I have the information for those too:

Regiment	AR Regt	Nationality	Coat	Lapels	Collar	Cuffs	Piping	Buttons	Pockets
63e RI	Ernest	Swiss	Red	Black	Red	Black	White	White	Horizontal
64e RI	Salis Samade	Swiss	Red	Lemon Yellow	Red	Lemon Yellow	_	White	Horizontal
65e RI	Sonnemberg	Swiss	Red	Sky Blue	Sky Blue	Sky Blue	_	White	Vertical
66e RI	Castella	Swiss	Red	Blue	Blue	Blue	white	White	Horizontal
69e RI	Vigier	Swiss	Red	Chamois	Red	Chamois	_	White	Horizontal
76e RI	Chateauvieux	Swiss	Red	Yellow	Red	Yellow	White	White	Horizontal
85e RI	Diesbach	Swiss	Red	Sky Blue	Sky Blue	Sky Blue	White	White	Horizontal
86e RI	Courten	Swiss	Red	Blue	Blue	Blue	White	White	Horizontal
95e RI	Salis Grisons	Swiss	Red	Blue	Red	Blue	White	White	Horizontal
97e RI	Steiner	Swiss	Red	Blue	Blue	Blue	_	White	Horizontal
100e RI	Reinach	Swiss	Red	White	White	White	_	White	Horizontal

Just need to double check the cut of the coats and the type of hat and leg wear worn.

But essentially the Bulkeley Unit could become the 87e or 88e RI in their red coats with black facings, whilst the Swiss Guard and Scottish Regiments are altered to represent a typical Swiss or German regiment.

[Johan217]

But essentially the Bulkeley Unit could become the 87e or 88e RI in their red coats with black facings, whilst the Swiss Guard and Scottish Regiments are altered to represent a typical Swiss or German regiment.

That's a treasure! Thanks mate!