Warcraft: Total War (WTW) Original Thread

[PaulH]

Why don't you guys do The Second War?That why you will need far lesser skins and for the first release Orc and Human skins will do.

You can break the Alliance and the Horde in multiple clans and nations who are part of unbreakable alliances?

In later releases you can put in the High Elves,the Zul'Amani Trolls some scripts for the Alterac Kingdom to betray the Alliance and a script for the Kingdom of Gilneas to break the pact with the Alliance and declare neutrality.For the Horde you can put in some scripts for Gul'dan's betrayl and maybe a script for the Frostwolves to get involved and try converting the Horde back to shamanism.

Overall it would be much easier to make and once you get a version out people will notice the mod and you maybe will get a few decent skinners to help with the 3rd War and beyond ?

I would say that would be a backward step, as even though there are multiple clans and nations involved, it is rather a black and white affair except for one group on either side turning against their faction (Alterac for the Alliance, and Gul'dan for the Horde). In my opinion they should either continue with their present goal, or set it during Wc1 when the Alliances are not there or follow my idea which was to set it purely in the Eastern Kingdoms 100 year prior to Wc1 with the Horde as an emerging faction of some considerable power.

[ShockBlast]

I would say that would be a backward step, as even though there are multiple clans and nations involved, it is rather a black and white affair except for one group on either side turning against their faction (Alterac for the Alliance, and Gul'dan for the Horde). In my opinion they should either continue with their present goal, or set it during Wc1 when the Alliances are not there or follow my idea which was to set it purely in the Eastern Kingdoms 100 year prior to Wc1 with the Horde as an emerging faction of some considerable power.

Step backwards?How the hell the second war is a step backwards and the first war is not?Only the Kingdom of Stormwind vs 3 or 4 Horde clans?There was no Alliance before the fall of Stormwind and the begining of the Second War.And who will this fictional Alliance fight until the Horde comes?The tooth fairy?

A Second War mod would serve only to make the mod known so they can recruit people faster and make 3rd War mod and even 4th War who knows but progress is slow and a Second War can be released much faster.

[PaulH]

Step backwards?How the hell the second war is a step backwards and the first war is not?Only the Kingdom of Stormwind vs 3 or 4 Horde clans?There was no Alliance before the fall of Stormwind and the begining of the Second War.And who will this fictional Alliance fight until the Horde comes?The tooth fairy?

A Second War mod would serve only to make the mod known so they can recruit people faster and make 3rd War mod and even 4th War who knows but progress is slow and a Second War can be released much faster.

Re-read my post, Shockblast, before running your mouth. I said to set it during Wc1, during the period of Wc1. You realise during that period that the Alliance was not together, which produces a far greater setting for a Total War than during Warcraft 2 which was extremely black and white. Just the Kingdom of Azeroth (not Stormwind) against 3 Horde clans? How about no? It would have the entirety of the Eastern Kingdoms and thus would include all the various Kingdoms out there at that time whilst having the Horde interrupting things.

A wc1 mod would be made just the same time length as a Wc2 one, but would make infinitely more sense due to the totally severed state of affairs between the various Kingdoms. If necessary, the Human realms could just have the same unit lists with the odd variation here and there to make things easier to produce. Wc2 is by and far the worst possible time to set a Warcraft mod, as yes there was a continent-wide war but between 2 factions.

Though personally I believe a mod which focuses on the lead up to the opening of the Portal to be better -if- they ever decided to edit their vision for this mod. It makes more sense to set it during a time where there is no giant threat to band together to fight against, and then have the Horde's appearance made similar to the Mongols in Medieval 2.

[TheHappyCrusader]

@Shockblast;
Don't we usually go over something like this every 2-3 months?

[ShockBlast]

Re-read my post, Shockblast, before running your mouth.

You don't say your Highness,let's see how is your knowlodge about the Warcraft universe is.

I said to set it during Wc1, during the period of Wc1. You realise during that period that the Alliance was not together, which produces a far greater setting for a Total War than during Warcraft 2 which was extremely black and white. Just the Kingdom of Azeroth (not Stormwind) against 3 Horde clans? How about no? It would have the entirety of the Eastern Kingdoms and thus would include all the various Kingdoms out there at that time whilst having the Horde interrupting things.

There was no bloody war between the Human nations in that time frame,there was no war between any Human nations until Alterac's betrayl.The last major conflict it was between the Empire of Arathor and Quel'Thalas against the Amani Empire.

A wc1 mod would be made just the same time length as a Wc2 one, but would make infinitely more sense due to the totally severed state of affairs between the various Kingdoms. If necessary, the Human realms could just have the same unit lists with the odd variation here and there to make things easier to produce. Wc2 is by and far the worst possible time to set a Warcraft mod, as yes there was a continent-wide war but between 2 factions.

Not a bad idea for a TW setting but you will only have Humans playable and the Horde only as emergent,so you can't control it.

Though personally I believe a mod which focuses on the lead up to the opening of the Portal to be better -if- they ever decided to edit their vision for this mod. It makes more sense to set it during a time where there is no giant threat to band together to fight against, and then have the Horde's appearance made similar to the Mongols in Medieval 2.

Well the Mongols don't have anything on the Horde.The Horde lost because two entire clans went with Gul'dan to the isles where the remains of the Dark Titan are and Doomhammer went after him.The Alliance where the most lucky bastards in the universe.

@Shockblast;
Don't we usually go over something like this every 2-3 months?

I see you haven't lost your touch,your smart arse replys are still good.

Project wise is much better to start small and end up big.

Both PaulH's idea and WW2 idea could have been implemented last summer.The Scourge and Night Elves are hard to skin.If you have a released project you could get people to join you.

[PaulH]

Well peasant, listen up because your highness is addressing you! :p

My knowledge of Warcraft is utterly sound, just as is my knowledge of how the history of war works. The Arathorian Empire began to slowly splinter into new city-states from about 2,800 years prior to the opening of the Dark Portal, and this was after the end of the Troll Wars. As they settled new city-states, these eventually formed into Kingdoms as they claimed their land. Now, I want you to think on this.. are you honestly going to say that there was no conflict between the various City-States/Kingdoms for nearly three millennia? Or to say that there weren't petty skirmishes, border conflicts, civil-wars, succession wars and battles over territory?

In the setting of Warcraft, War is quite the constant, even prior to the Orcs arrival and it would make absolutely no sense for there to be no tensions for nearly three thousand years. The Humans of Warcraft are nowhere near peaceful enough to ever cope without some form of conflict with someone for decades, let alone millennia. Also, the Warcraft 2 manual does make it clear that the various factions of the former Arathorian Empire were generally not on wonderful terms, especially with Gilneas who were one of the mightiest of the realms. There was a lot of animosity amongst the Alliance, but we did not see it much because at the time of the game, the Alliance were the good guys and the Horde were bad. Blizzard did not want to go indepth and ruin that vision of the Alliance at the time, although later on they did.

Regarding a Wc1 setting, the Orcs could be playable as I expect the Campaign map would have them controlling the Dark Portal. Though I agree that my idea of the Horde appearing on the map as an emergent faction in my own setting suggestion would make them unplayable, the way to counter that is to merely have two Campaigns. One where it is free-for-all, with all factions playable right from the start.. and one where the Orcs arrive at a scripted time. By the way, my mention of the Mongols was in regards to how the Mongols appeared as a powerful force later in the Medieval 2 campaign, not in their physical appearance or actions.

[ShockBlast]

Well peasant, listen up because your highness is addressing you! :p

My knowledge of Warcraft is utterly sound, just as is my knowledge of how the history of war works. The Arathorian Empire began to slowly splinter into new city-states from about 2,800 years prior to the opening of the Dark Portal, and this was after the end of the Troll Wars. As they settled new city-states, these eventually formed into Kingdoms as they claimed their land. Now, I want you to think on this.. are you honestly going to say that there was no conflict between the various City-States/Kingdoms for nearly three millennia? Or to say that there weren't petty skirmishes, border conflicts, civil-wars, succession wars and battles over territory?

I see you know your lore.
Yes i actually think there was no conflict between the factions.First of all there is no info about an existing conflict,maybe you've read some book and you got a hint about one,but there was no territorial war.A petty skirmish between nobles of different kingdoms or even in the same kingdom sounds ok(we found out there was a rebellion in Gilneas) and Blizz can put that in at any time,they like doing that.
Let's keep in mind this is a fantasy world,unless you are a Troll who can shapeshift info a giant eagle.

In the setting of Warcraft, War is quite the constant, even prior to the Orcs arrival and it would make absolutely no sense for there to be no tensions for nearly three thousand years. The Humans of Warcraft are nowhere near peaceful enough to ever cope without some form of conflict with someone for decades, let alone millennia.

There was war for certin.The Humans took those lands from the Forest Trolls in the north and Lordaeron has a lot of skirmishes with them for sure,so did Stromgarde.
Who says Stormwind didn't have some wars with the Jungle Trolls?

Also, the Warcraft 2 manual does make it clear that the various factions of the former Arathorian Empire were generally not on wonderful terms, especially with Gilneas who were one of the mightiest of the realms.

Gilneans are so arrogant.They would for sure turn on the Alliance if they have something to gain.Good thing they bordered one of the most powerful if not the most powerful human kingdom.

There was a lot of animosity amongst the Alliance, but we did not see it much because at the time of the game, the Alliance were the good guys and the Horde were bad. Blizzard did not want to go indepth and ruin that vision of the Alliance at the time, although later on they did.

Well they had great success with the game so they had to develop it.I mean they gave so mich to the Alliance and Alliance fans are crying because they lose some.The Alliance can take a beating but the Horde can't make a wrong move because the fight is on their own land - Barrens,Stonetalon,Ashenvale, etc.

Regarding a Wc1 setting, the Orcs could be playable as I expect the Campaign map would have them controlling the Dark Portal. Though I agree that my idea of the Horde appearing on the map as an emergent faction in my own setting suggestion would make them unplayable, the way to counter that is to merely have two Campaigns.
One where it is free-for-all, with all factions playable right from the start.. and one where the Orcs arrive at a scripted time. By the way, my mention of the Mongols was in regards to how the Mongols appeared as a powerful force later in the Medieval 2 campaign, not in their physical appearance or actions.

Your idea has merit but the same can be done with a WC2 setting.There can be a free for all campaign with the clans and nations.Remember that while the Horde had a warchief the base of that Horde were the Clans not the clanless orcs of Thrall's Horde.
And a campaign with the two teams but with heavy scripting so that there are a lot of if's.For example Genn dies and a script kicks in enabling the player to leave the Alliance and become hostile.A script for Stromgarde to declare itself the New Arathorian Empire after it conquers X provinces(they have the most disciplined soldiers of all Alliance armies) becoming hostile to all.A script for Alterac to become a Horde ally.
For the Horde we can have a script for Gul'dan's clans, one for a Frostwolf Clan reemergenge and many more.
The main difference between the two ideas it would be that the Horde will have more land and could feature more individual Horde factions.

I hope they would change their minds and put one of the ideas in practice.

[Vhaelor]

I see you haven't lost your touch,your smart arse replys are still good.

This is a completely unnecessary remark to make.

Project wise is much better to start small and end up big.

This is certainly a wise choice for any modleader to make, agreed, but not everyone agrees. But let's flip this around. You release such a mod and within 5 minutes of playing it some less knowledgeable players would ask the question "Where's Arthas? Thrall? Grommie Hellwhine?" and so on. I applaud the WTW team for working on this.

HappyCrusader, I'm wondering if Moravexx is actually still working on the project, I know that the files are sadly lost but is he trying to recreate his good work?

[beckyolt]

HappyCrusader, I'm wondering if Moravexx is actually still working on the project, I know that the files are sadly lost but is he trying to recreate his good work?

I hope so. Hell, things got so slow...

Jesus guys, you endured months and months. Why give up now?

[Liamar]

I hope so. Hell, things got so slow...

Jesus guys, you endured months and months. Why give up now?

Did anyone mention anything about giving up?
I thought not.

[Sulfurion Blackfyre]

Come on Beckyolt, don't you give up on hope, you're one of our most staunch supporters xD I mean heck, I just came back from modding and organizing my WTW files a bit more, and you guys are talking heresy already :O

__________

ATTENTION everyone!

I think the mod needs it's UI's redone. If anyone has skills and would be willing to contribute in a major way to this mod, well, feel free to offer your skills. The UI's Grimbold did were kind of incomplete, even tough they were pretty cool and had promise. At least we have the menus, splash screens, loading bar, loading screens, etc etc.

So, anyone interested PM me or say something here, so we can discuss what to do.

[xxxMoRaVexxx]

Hi guys,

To anyone who still wondering if I'll be still working for the mod: Sulph, maybe you should post my PM to you, I think that'll explain everything. Sorry guys, I hope there's no hard feelings.

[Sulfurion Blackfyre]

Hi guys,

To anyone who still wondering if I'll be still working for the mod: Sulph, maybe you should post my PM to you, I think that'll explain everything. Sorry guys, I hope there's no hard feelings.

Hm ok, here's what Moravex told me:

I'm glad you understand what I feel about my lost work. If you ask me now, I think I have to turn it down. You know that I wanna breathe life on this mod as much as you do but 5 months of work wasted is very devastating for me, both emotionally and mentally as a matter of fact, especially for the fact that I did it with much dedication and hard work and took hours away from my RL time. I wouldn't sacrifice that much work and energy if I didn't like working on it in the first place, right? Did you know I turned down offers from mods like "Broken Crescent", "East of Rome"(actually refreshing my modding skills w/ this one now), "Tomb King submod for Call of Warhammer", "Zombie TW", "Conquer The World TW(German mod thats almost like Empire), etc. etc., just to focus working on WTW. I'm sorry if you're disappointed with my answer, but I know you understand and I hope theres no hard feelings. Thank you for believing in me and I hope this will not be the last time I work with you. AND if there's any chance of some other gifted guy stumbling into the WTW thread and wanna work for it, I'd be willing to help to the maximum extent that I can. But for now, I have to turn down your offer.

I'm sorry, cheers.

[beckyolt]

Oh, crap...I know how morave feels though, I felt like that when I lost a huge project on AoE3 and what about TMK?

[beckyolt]

Who's actually still working? TMK, Sulph, THC, and two other guys I don't remember are the ones I know. And where did Grimbold go? He made some pretty nice UIs if I remember.

[blackbroncos22]

Hey guys, I was just wondering if there is an early beta ready for this mod just to see how far its come. This mod looks amazing!

[DekuTrash]

Uh...you haven't read the past few posts have you?

[AnArmyofAnts]

Great mod! has heaps of potential. Hope it makes it to completion!

[blackbroncos22]

Uh...you haven't read the past few posts have you?

Not really, I skimmed through some of them but it seems to me as if there just working together to fix bugs and overall developing the game. What point exactly are you getting at?

[ggggtotalwarrior]

the fact that all the unit data was lost......