A "thing to do list" prior to 1.0 version

[Daminios]

Pode ,, another stroke of genius ! ,,
keep us all informed on how it develops

[Celtoi]

Great to see you all chat together, work together and evolving together towards 1.0 !

[Hopit]

yeah, its nice to not notice different years too

[Hister]

Work on PI 1.0 for RTW BI has stopped!

[KaRoU23]

It's really a pity since i was waiting a long for that mod....

[demagogos nicator]

It's really a pity since i was waiting a long for that mod....

yes i also think so

[Hister]

Yeah I know, I'm also disappointed I wasn't strong enough to finish this sucker. I can upload the latest version which has some unfinished elements in it - someone might have the will to finish the mod up and release 1.0 version. If so please send me PM and we'll discuss how to proceed (only serious people please!).

[Pode]

Hmm. I'd been thinking earlier this week that maybe I'd go thru the WIP stuff that'd been posted here and collect it into a single "latest available" version. A "Hister's latest" version would be much better and much appreciated.
As far as carrying the ball forward, I'm interested but unsure of committing to it. I'd really like to see my work on city-size-driven building costs see the light of day in a release, and it's just not feasible in the M2TW engine unless every building is made of stone, which I suspect would play merry hell with graphics and fires and such. I'd also like to implement the faction-specific recruiting building tree we talked about a whole page ago when we were young and ambitious. Anything else would be beyond my skill set, and expanding my skill set in modding a game as old as RTW is just not high on the life priority list.
I'm on a retro gaming kick right now, catching up on classics I missed when I was too busy studying and working too much (how did I miss X-COM?). When I'm caught up in time back to RTW, I'll be starting with this mod. I'll probably do the two things I mentioned to whatever the latest state of things is just for my own interest, and I'll gladly post the results here if the forum is still open. If this lukewarm show of support from me is the best offer Hister gets, well, I'll put DOSBox on the shelf and try to roll a 0.97 version together for a Christmas present to myself and all the other PI 1 fans. Be warned, though, I've given a girl her Christmas present on Valentine's Day before.

[Hister]

Okey boys and girls - I will make this public:

PI has got two helpers who both worked on this mod in the past. Pode and Romeu are the brave lads who decided to continue the work on our original PI game. We will from now on discuss the progress and cooperate our work here in this thread so that we can make a little gentleman's club here.

I can not stress enough how happy I am of such development!

Stay tuned.

[Pode]

Hister's sent me the task list he was working from, and it's no exaggeration to say I've seen multi-million dollar engineering projects that were less defined (and possibly less ambitious ). My boss and mentor taught me to schedule 24 hours after the start of a project for sheer unadulterated panic at what you've gotten yourself into, and that clock is ticking for me right now. Once I've gotten over the sheer size of the thing, I'll be back here with specifics I'll tackle.

[Romeu]

Welcome to PI Legion, Pode. This list is that need is done:

- Buildings that need to be added or renamed:
- Add Hippodrome (Greeks) and Circus (Romani) building. Only Romans can upgrade to Circus Maximus in Rome (use hidden resource).(Done)
- Rename Greek market to Agora and Roman one to Forum. Add description for Forum Romanum (only in Rome).
- Greco-Etruscan health building called Palaestra.
- Etrusco-Roman health building called Cloaca.
- Greek health building called Asklepeia (hospital) and Great Asklepeia only in Croton as an upgrade.
- Academic building tiers need to be renamed to something more appropriate.
- Etruscan and Hellenic Painters' Workshop (from the start), Roman and Oscan Painters' Workshop (fires during the game if possible – otherwise from the beginning).
- 1st tier Hellenic Bronze Sculptor's Workshop; Roman and Etruscan Terracota Sculptor's Workshop. 2nd tier Hellenic Marble Sculptor's Workshop; Roman and Etruscan Bronze Sculptor's Workshop.
- Greek theatre called Theatron. Also add description for Etruscan theatre. Next tier for Greeks is Odeon (description is missing) and final Conservatorium.
- Athletic buildings: 1st tier Greek/ Etruscan Stadion; Roman Campus. 2nd tier Greek/ Etruscan Gymnasion; Roman Campus Martius (only in Rome). Gives “recruits_exp_bonus« (upgrades XP of units recruited there by 1 each). Give also this bonus to hardy mountaneous tribes like Samnites in their barracks due to their natural phisical provess.
- professional_military and professional_navy descriptions from PI II shall be put in the academies. Highest tier barracks for this reason need to have also academy as a requirement.


- Add remaining building descriptions from PI II and adjust them.


- Give Veneti, Liguri and Umbri their own distinctive barracks description.


- Add Fanum Vultamnae building in EDB, add _constructed pic for it, make it as already existent on map from the beginning.


- Give Poeni, Italioate and Syracusae 3 tiers of mercenary camps that need higher tier barracks as a prerequisite – the goal is to simulate training of those mercenaries via the barracks as is stated in the barracks descriptions.


- In EDB file equestrian buildings (used for regional subjugation) need to be given to factions so that when for example Romans conquer a province where regional subjugation building was already built by Samnites Romans are not able to recruit any units from that building since it’s not them who established subjugation in the first place.

Example of how to change EDB to meet above requirements of culture related recruitment for Romans:

building roman_equestrian
{
levels roman_stables roman_cavalry_barracks roman_hippodrome roman_circus_maximus
{
roman_stables requires factions { roman, }
{
capability
{

; AoR CAMPANIA
recruit "Hoplites Campani" 1 requires factions { roman, slave, } and hidden_resource Campani
... etc.
; AoR GALLI
recruit "Spatharii Senones" 0 requires factions { roman, slave, } and hidden_resource Senones
..etc.

1. This means, you need to distribute/multiply all these building strings per faction in edb.
2. Then have all these building entries as well in the text folder export_buildings.txt, rename them as above per culture.
3. The same must be done in the building ui folder per culture folder, if those have not these culture names anyway.

That should work. If there is an issue due to the use of vanilla buildings (their names are all from vanilla), then you can also still rename these buildings completely - you could copy and paste the existing building entries in the text folder export_buildings.txt, because if the vanilla building entries remain, makes no trouble (if they have no connection to the edb file anymore), the game will always relate to the edb building entries - means it must always correspond: names in edb, in export_buildings.txt and the names building ui folder tga's.

4. Higher tier barracks have a prerequisite for equestrian buildings – when fiddling with them make sure that I also change (maybe delete?) prerequisitories otherwise I’ll get a bug (CTD).


- Add proper building pics from Mylae and PI II (in progress).


- Fix _constructed pic for all unique buildings to show up properly (currently show up as blank white. No hint why this happens as of now.


- Fix UI pics of some temples that show up as vanilla.


- Port over from PI II Oscan, Hellenic, Roman and Celtic settlement models if possible – am not sure since those models don't have all the levels required in PI I but I suppose we can use the PI II highest tier settlement model for the remaining levels in PI I. In PI II Oscan culture has only 3 tiers of settlements for example – I suppose we can use the same model for the PI I's remaining two tiers but just name them differently so that no CTD appears.
To do this task copy residences folder from PI II and adjust descr_cultures.txt to fit.



-Add new Ligurian diplomat from PI II (property of Invasio Barbarorum 2 team)


-Add new Gallic diplomat from PI II (property of Arthurian Total War)


- Add the remaining 3D models (unique buildings) on the map when they are finalized in PI II.


- Make different tier settlement and building levels on the map.


-Use remaining faction descriptions from M2TW PI when done

- Balance the campaign map so that no faction has too much money from the start - Veneti are one such example.


-With the new EDU version from Romeu all factions need to be checked if they are not in red dinarii numbers from the start due to higher upkeep.


- Make barracks for every faction so that when you conquer a neighburing province that has barracks built you can't get anything from them. (Optional since it is a lot of work!)
This will help:
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...28#post6345728

- Delete some unused cas files:
In models_unit there are cas files for units that don't seem to exist - like the Hastati/Principes/Triarii Hernici and many others.


- Fix the EDU by giving this line to units that don't have secondary weapon. (Probably not necessary since current setup is probably not causing any problems.)
stat_sec no, no, no, 0, 0, none, none, none, none, no ,no


- Greek psiloi toxotai, psiloi akontistai , psiloi sphendonetai and the lakedaimonian/spartan ekdromoi are mapped wrong. I.e. they do have a texture for an asymetric look needed because of the fact that they`re using the exomis tunic, but unfortunately the model is mapped with only the front part on both sides. Resulting on pectorals on its back. Someone would need to remap the model to use the whole tunic and body from the texture, not just the front part.
This is a picture taken from the back:
[IMG]file:///C:/Users/AYASUK%7E1/AppData/Local/Temp/msohtml1/01/clip_image001.jpg[/IMG] (For this i ask help of one of the Skinners ofRTW workshop)


- Syracusyan hippies have a problem with the arm when wielding a spear.


- All factions are missing pentecontere and liburna large unit cards. I need a 2D artis to draw them for me.


- Make installer for mod as a final step.



Please Pode explain you ideias of subjugation system.

[Hister]

Hister's sent me the task list he was working from, and it's no exaggeration to say I've seen multi-million dollar engineering projects that were less defined (and possibly less ambitious ).

LOL

[demagogos nicator]

Glad to see the works continues

[Pode]

My ideas on subjugation system: First off, unless I'm misreading, this

- In EDB file equestrian buildings (used for regional subjugation) need to be given to factions so that when for example Romans conquer a province where regional subjugation building was already built by Samnites Romans are not able to recruit any units from that building since it’s not them who established subjugation in the first place.

Example of how to change EDB to meet above requirements of culture related recruitment for Romans:

building roman_equestrian
{
levels roman_stables roman_cavalry_barracks roman_hippodrome roman_circus_maximus
{
roman_stables requires factions { roman, }
{
capability
{

; AoR CAMPANIA
recruit "Hoplites Campani" 1 requires factions { roman, slave, } and hidden_resource Campani
... etc.
; AoR GALLI
recruit "Spatharii Senones" 0 requires factions { roman, slave, } and hidden_resource Senones
..etc.

1. This means, you need to distribute/multiply all these building strings per faction in edb.
2. Then have all these building entries as well in the text folder export_buildings.txt, rename them as above per culture.
3. The same must be done in the building ui folder per culture folder, if those have not these culture names anyway.

That should work. If there is an issue due to the use of vanilla buildings (their names are all from vanilla), then you can also still rename these buildings completely - you could copy and paste the existing building entries in the text folder export_buildings.txt, because if the vanilla building entries remain, makes no trouble (if they have no connection to the edb file anymore), the game will always relate to the edb building entries - means it must always correspond: names in edb, in export_buildings.txt and the names building ui folder tga's.

is what Hister tried to do and couldn't due to the hardcoded limit on the number of building trees. I suggested a branching subjugation tree instead:

Hister, I recall from my EDB fiddling that each tree can have 9 upgrades, not just 5. So beyond a shared first level you could have different sets of upgrade buildings that were faction/culture dependent. Some careful thought and compromise may allow you to combine trees and reduce your total under the cap. I don't recall if any given building can have more than 2 upgrades or not.

I'm thinking you might have 3 culture-related subjugation trees: Gallic, Italic, and City-State. City-State subjugation level 1 upgrades to Citizen army subjugation (Etrusco-Roman) or Mercenary army subjugation (Greco-Phonecian). Level three becomes the faction specific subjugation bldg. Level 1 allows basic barracks, level 2 barracks level 2, and level 3 the full barracks tree. Tweak the recruits to require both the barracks and the subjugation bldg and you should get almost the same faction-unique subjugation pattern with only 3 new trees instead of 21

Problem with that approach is a historically justified differentiation between factions and groups of factions on the Italic and Gallic trees. My knowledge is just too weak to come up with such. Mountain Italic (Samnites and ?), Plains Italic (Brutti?), Mountain Gauls (?), and Plains Gauls (Venetii?). For the first branch of the subjugation tree, we need a cultural difference that's common across more than one faction and yet not common across all factions of that culture type. For the civilized cultures it was a pretty clear divide between Hellenic style mercenary / professional armies and Roman / Etruscan (?) citizen armies. I really like this one because it's clearly and directly related to who can join the army and thus what units can be recruited. The building represents success in converting the settlement to that cultural philosophy and should get a culture change effect if it doesn't already (long time away).

[Hister]

Yes your approach is the one to be done. I forgot to update that part of the text.

I don't quite follow you on the matter of your problem - why does your "weak" knowledge on their cultures prevent you implementing this system? You can check the files and see what factions are able to train what units. Follow that and you will be fine.

URGENT: Romeu is also supposedly working on subjugation tree - let's coordinate this!

[Romeu]

The idea of Pode is more realistc and more immersive, my original idea is only to not use Stables, but to create other new building, i intend to use stables as a military garrison( lay bonus building), I think the buildings like dungeons are not historical.
If Pode assume the aor/subjugation system i can do the others tasks.

Pode is possible to create two paths to seek: one economical and other military for regions conquest?

[Pode]

The idea of Pode is more realistc and more immersive, my original idea is only to not use Stables, but to create other new building, i intend to use stables as a military garrison( lay bonus building), I think the buildings like dungeons are not historical.
If Pode assume the aor/subjugation system i can do the others tasks.

Pode is possible to create two paths to seek: one economical and other military for regions conquest?

Agreed then, although I'll need to use an existing building tree and its artwork, as all I know is EDB and EDU editing.
I can add a fourth level to the 3 subjugation trees and max them out at 9 buildings each. So the City State tree would start with city-state subjugation at level 1, citizen army subjugation at level 2, Roman subjugation at level 3, and then economic or military specialization as the final level. Economic would allow no new units but give town bonuses instead, military would either allow the highest tier units like triarii or give exp bonuses to units. I'm kinda leaning the latter way, for Rome at least.
Also I think renaming them to assimilation or some such might be more appropriate.

As far as version control, I'll work with the existing subjugation and barracks blocks within EDB and post changes to only those sections, so Romeu can just cut and paste my stuff into his EDB with the other building changes. If Romeu can then do the artwork linking work in the other files so that the new buildings I copy/pasted to create show up properly, it should all work out.

[Pode]

OK, on examination, it looks like there's only one entry populated with all the AoR subjugation units for every faction. Because I'd need to create 2.5 new building trees anyway, I'm going to suggest we leave the equestrian tree alone and use it solely for staging races (because that's awesome and very Etrusco-Roman). I'll just create 3 new trees and divide the unit recruitment among them appropriately

[Romeu]

I agree, then you just pass me the changes you made, and on the figures for the buildings ( art 2D), I have to confirm with Hister, but I think we can use material from PI to MTW.
I agree above Equestrian, i'm thinking to use lvl 1 and 2 to add a small tax bonus (cattle/horse market) and other lvls to races.
Pode you intend to use the mercenary camp(archery range) for something?

[Pode]

No, I'm going to need 3 wholly new trees (and you to assign art assets to them and all the other stuff that goes along with new buildings outside their EDB entries). I like the idea of merc camps, especially if there was a way to have those buildings influence the appearance of merc units in the merc pools outside of towns. That may be more headache than it's worth, but I like the idea that just because you built a nice facility to attract mercs doesn't mean they won't still hire on with your enemy.

I lied, there's too many buildings needed to add military / economic specialties to the trees. But that will be reflected in what buildings get built first, and that allows the focus to shift with time and the frontiers, so I'm thinking it may be for the best.

Here's what I've got as a draft of the city-state culture assimilation tree. I haven't touched costs, build times, or what units belong at each level for each faction.

These urban cultures can only build their highest level assimilations in cities or larger. The Italic tree will be able to build their best in large towns, and the Gallic tree will be able to build all of them anywhere,reflecting the different degrees of urbanization of the cultures. The common lvl 1 building gives a tax income, pop growth, law, and culture bonus to all urban cultures. The law bonus stays constant for all levels and all urban factions.

The Etrusco-Roman lvl 2 gives those factions a better tax bonus and limits the pop growth to those two factions (anybody can join their armies). The Greco-Punic lvl 2 takes away the pop growth bonus but adds a good sized trade bonus and a trade fleet to reflect those factions preferences for port cities and their large offmap trade empires. The faction specific lvl 3 and 4 buildings just enhance those benefits for the specific faction. I think I coded the trade fleets properly so they will be bonuses added to the total for the settlement but only if the safe seas resource is present.

Now, the big question. The relationship between these buildings and the barracks level. It looks to me like the intent was that these buildings allow recruitment of locals not normally available to your faction, but at a lower experience level than if they were fighting for their native faction. I've handled this is to make the subjugation / assimilation buildings depend on the barracks; lvl 1 barracks allows a lvl 1 subjugation, etc. This way, if you capture a high lvl barracks, you don't have to tear down and rebuild the facilities, but you do still have to spend time winning over volunteers to your cause. You can build high lvl barracks outside your heartlands, but it won't help you unless you have local friends.