SigniferOne's Animations Pack

[driddle]

Historically accurate Roman legionary animations (fs_s1_gladius):
- no wild cheering for Romans during startup
- proper relaxed standing animations
- during a fight, holding the shield close and the gladius ready next to it
- stabbing fighting style with the gladius, no slashing

The wild cheering for the Romans is historical. I refer you to this quote form Polybius.

When the phalanxes were close to each other, Romans fell upon their foes, raising their war-cry and clashing their shields with their spears as is their practice,

Polybius, The Histories, Book XV, Section 12.8 (Online at LacusCurtius) The Battle of Zama (202 BC)

At least some slashing is also historical. Polybius clearly says they used there swords for both cutting and thrusting.

Such being in general and in detail the disposition of the phalanx, I have now, for purposes of comparison, to speak of the peculiarities of the Roman equipment and system of formation and the points of difference in both. Now in the case of the Romans also each soldier with his arms occupies a space of three feet in breadth, but as in their mode of fighting each man must move separately, as he has to cover his person with his long shield, turning to meet each expected blow, and as he uses his sword both for cutting and thrusting it is obvious that a looser order is required, and each man must be at a distance of at least three feet from the man next him in the same rank and those in front of and behind him, if they are to be of proper use.

Polybius, The Histories, Book XVIII, Section 30.5 (Online at LacusCurtius) The Battle of Cynoscephalae (197 BC)

[Gamer0104]

Have you fixed the horrible elephant problem, they massacre (or more, confuse) even my Spartan elite!

[SigniferOne]

Julius Caesar, as I write there are only two conditions on using my anims: only Hellenic nations for the hoplite animations, and only Romans and imitation legionaries for gladius animations. If your mod agrees, then use the anims to your heart's content.

driddle,

The point of this mod is not ONLY to represent a more accurate style of legionaries and hoplites, but to also distinguish from everyone else's fighting style. However, RTW's engine is not universal, and some things can be represented while others cannot, therefore the VISUAL aspect is oftentimes the only thing I am left with in terms of differentiation. That's why I don't allow my hoplite anims to be used for some barbarian units, for example, even though I imagine that simply standing like that was probably by a few other spear units. But the fact that I cannot represent many many other aspects of Greek hoplite warfare that made the Greeks superior, means that I am left with the visual differentiation a my only method. The same goes for the legionaries. They might have had some cheering going on, but there's no way for me to differentiate that from the wild, savage, guttural cheering and taunting that the barbarians did, so therefore the Romans, like the Greeks, are portrayed as more calmer and collected in battle. And as for cutting with the gladius, that only happened in EXTREME close range, when let's say some guy's back was turned to you so you just cut his throat or something. In RTW it doesn't happen like that, all battles have soldiers with some distance from one another, so cutting with the gladius simply does not make sense in that environment. I am focused on realism WITHIN THE PARAMETERS of RTW's engine, and attempt to portray not only the characteristics of a unit's fighting style, but also to maintain the real-life differences, given RTW's limitations.

Gamer, I'm not sure what horrible problem you are referring to, looks like you just need to light up some pigs and serve the elephants some bacon.

[SigniferOne]

And I should add, as I said RTR -can- use the anims and even modify them, but I am also requesting here that you dont tamper with my choice of differentiation, as described above.

[Julius_Caesar]

Yep we will use them, is an update to them likely to be released soon?

[Prof]

do you make fast (for archers) animations, too?

[Gamer0104]

The elephants zoom around the map like sports cars.

[{H0sPiTalLeR}]

Hey Sig! I started a thread the other day about whether or not it was possible to mod units so they can walk forward in guard mode. By this I mean a steady walking pace with their shields held in front of them with gladius at the side. Identical to what units do when in combat. I think if you could do this then it would look very sleek. Imagine marching the legions toward the mass of barbarians steadily. On top of your fs_s1_gladius anim I think this would look real nice!

Ignore me if you think I'm ranting, but otherwise, if you've got the time, see if its possible!

Oh, by the way, if you're wondering what the hell I'm going on about, remember Gladiator at the start when the romans march toward the Germans...

[Trajan]

That’s the other animation that the Romans need. Whenever marching towards the enemy, the legionares marched in a slow pace with their scutums in front of them, ready for combat.

[EKG]

When legionaries fought they fought 6 feet apart from each other, basically loose formation in this game... They only moved in tight formation.

[SigniferOne]

Prof, faster moving archer and barb swordsman anims coming in the next version.

Gamer, I will investigate the behavior.

Hospitaller, I will look into that as well. Seems to me that Romans already can walk toward the enemy, in formation, slowly and in order.

Trajan, see above. This is already possible.

EKG, nope 3feet maximum, most of the time less. Barbarians on the other hand did fight in a very loose formation, both because they lacked the discipline and other moral factors to maintain a cohesive order, and because their swords were very long, and thus only usable in a low-discipline, low-order very loose formation.The sizes of the swords are in inverse relation to the discipline of the troops involved, and the closeness of order in which they fought.

[SigniferOne]

Just to let you guys see what I've been working on lately,

Romans now have two new animations -- the charge attack, and the charge jump attack. In the former, they now run and STAB with the gladius, keeping the shield in order and close by, not waving the gladius wildly and trying to slash people, while the shield is aimlessly waving on the wind.

The new charge jump attack animation for Romans is here too (the top is original, the bottom is new):
Now as they prepare for the jump, they swing their forward leg FAR forward, do a little initial preparatory jump, then land, and then leap into the air to a realistic difference, with realistic leg motions, prepare the gladius, then as they fall down, push with their shoulder upon the shield and use the shield as a brunt force to slam against the enemy below, and right below they land, they stab the stunned enemy, before going into Ready position. The last two pics show the soldier falling down and propping his shoulder against the shield as he prepares to smash with the shield into the enemy.

[GODzilla]

SigniferOne, that is truly amazing....it was hard to keep my mouth shut after I saw those pic *grin* ;-). Can't wait for the new version, though the current one is good enough for now ;-).

[Iaius Statius Laurentius]

I found this mod included as part of someone's Roman re-skin and re-model mod.

I've a question, though, since I have an issue that's potentially caused by this mod. I've noticed that when *any* unit marches, even a non-Roman one, the formations tend to be ragged and incohesive, as if the soldiers don't know where to do. This is particularly disturbing, since the measured, even marches of the original game were rather good--especially for the Roman units. Is there any way to rectify this?

[masterj3123]

signiferone i no u are probably extremly busy with all of these animations u are working on but u are the only animatior i know. i was jsut wondering if u would like to make the shield wall. i have a thread of it down below this thread. if u dont then thats ok but if u can i would really appreciate it.

[Darkragnar]

nice work SigniferOne but can i suggest u angle the shield better in mid flight because the shield in you new animation is perpendicular to the ground, it would be better if the soldier made 45 degree with his shield because no only will the force applied on the enemy soldier will be downwards and forward which makes the enemy fall down on the ground, the solider doing to jumping will also avoid breaking his wrist when he slams the shield on the enemy.

[SigniferOne]

The shield is the way it is for the soldier to keep balance. He cannot employ his entire weight to crush the enemy soldiers, cos he'll fall down himself. So he's using the top, propped by the shoulder, to apply the force, but is prepared to use the bottom if he loses balance upon landing.

master, as I already said to you in another thread, just wait two months and CA will come up with a much better shield wall than we could ever do on our own. Right now the closest you have to a shield wall are my hoplite anims, with the soldiers holding the shields close to their body, and perpendicular. If you make the shields big enough, they will even overlap. But no programming effects of this can be done, which is why CA's expansion will be so valuable in this respect.

Gaius Statius, I have enocuntered this problem during my development, I think it is more of a result of my earlier releases than anything else, because I have not seen this behavior in the latest version. Also, can you tell me whose mod is using my animations? I don't remember giving any permissions to any mods you describe, and as I state in my readme, all use of my anims by other mods is explicitly forbidden unless permission is given.

[Trajan]

The new charge jump attack animation is another important Roman animation that CA forgot to put in. I can't believe you did it. Good job SigniferOne.

[Iaius Statius Laurentius]

I'll retrieve a link to that person's mod shortly.

As for the animations--no, I tried downloading the newest version simply to make sure, and I still have the same problem. Some units mill about as if they're confused, and the legions move ridiculously fast--as if they're always charging--and have trouble keeping their formation. Sometimes they do move properly, but then they lose it again. The enemy units act similarly.

EDIT: here

Your mod is in the .rar file of that mod. It's included intact as a full zip I think, so they didn't just implement your stuff--it still has your name and textfiles in it, but it is packaged with the other one.

[Darkragnar]

-The shield is the way it is for the soldier to keep balance. He cannot employ his entire weight to crush the enemy soldiers, cos he'll fall down himself. So he's using the top, propped by the shoulder, to apply the force, but is prepared to use the bottom if he loses balance upon landing.

but wont the enemy soldier move into the guys lower part of the shield and change the angle of the shield so that the legionare'r shoulders slide forward hence his whole upperbody slides forward making him unblanced and hence falling on his face? that could also happen if the man is jumping into a bigger man who has more body mass then the roman ?