SigniferOne's Animations Pack

[Burninator]

Is there a way to combine two separate animation packs? I love your archers, hoplites, gladius, etc, but i also want the two handed pikes and swords in the eb animation mod...

could there be a way to extract/insert one skeleton pack from one to the other?

also, perhaps when you've taken a break from your mighty work, you could churn out a simple how-to on editing animations, as i have been yet stumped to get any progress whatsoever........

[Red Harvest]

SigniferOne,

This is a "can the RTW/BI engine do this?" question: Since you have experience working with the chariot/elephant animations/skeleton, and these each must have two parts (driver and crew); is it possible to add a 3rd role to the animation? For instance...would it be possible to make a chariot unit with driver, missile/melee crewman, and shield bearer? (I have no idea how you would keep the 3rd guy from trying to fire missiles...or how you would prevent the driver and missile crewman from having shields as well unless you made the shield part of the chariot .CAS and had the shield bearer "holding" it...but that is another matter.)

And along a related line...if chariots and elephants have two simulateneous animations, does that mean there might be a way to make dual infantry units like shield bearer/archer? Or dual camel rider units: driver and passenger? Or the early Assyrian mounted archer teams where one rider held the reins of another's horse while that fellow fired?

Ok, that's a lot more than a single question, but I'm wondering how much room there is in the skeleton/animation structure to put together composite units.

[SigniferOne]

Burninator,

Yes there is a way, just use Vercingetorix's XIDX program.


Red Harvest,

The thing there is, if you notice, all riders on the elephant/chariot have the same model, so you can't have different models riding on top. Also, they use the -same skeleton-. What CA did is tricky, they gave the riding animations to the rider, and the shooting animations to the soldiers, all from the same one skeleton. Again if you notice, you don't need to specify multiple skeletons for chariot or elephant riders soldiers.

As for your second paragraph, I am not sure what you're trying to say there..

[Red Harvest]

Thanks, I understand what you are saying and I realized that they were using the same skeleton and same model (but animating them separately.) What has my attention is that they are using different animations at the same time (two.) So is there a way to add a 3rd animation at the same time? There is the riding and firing animation in use already. Is there a 3rd animation that could be used or are there only two slots allowed? And if there are more could the engine recognize it and place it accordingly? Obviously it can do this with officers already, but those are separate models and animations inserted.

Example: 3 man chariot
Crew model and skeleton with appropriate mount
1. Driver has driver animation. Rider position 1 in mount file.
2. Archer has firing animation. Rider position 2 in mount file.
3. Shield bearer has ? animation. (Is this possible?) Rider position 3 in mount file.

for 4 man chariot:
4. If 3 is possible could a 2nd shield bearer (image reversed/shield on other side) be added as well for a total of four?

Secondary question related to above:
It looks like the riding animation deletes the weapon, but not shield. Can the shield also be deleted from the rider animation--thereby allowing javelin units to retain their shield and clutch of javelins while throwing from elephants and chariots, but not while acting as the driver/mahout? If so could this then be extended to rider 3 so that he is the only one using his shield? (I'm not asking you to change anything, I'm just trying to understand what the capabilities are of producing working skeleton/animation combinations.)

[Virgil]

signifier - you mentioned....somewhere that you could combine your animations pack with others by using the idx extractor. If I were to extract your gladius animation from your file and out it in another pack, would it run using 1.2 (your newest version). I realise that you released it to be v 1.5 compatible. Unfortunately, I have no idea what modding oppertunites were opened/closed between the patches so in this area i am supremely ignorant.

So basically, will your v 1.5 compatible animations work correctly in 1.2. If not, thats ok, I was just wondering...

And I have not upgraded to v 1.5 yet because I am playing SPQR and Lt hasn't released his 1.5 compatible version of his mod yet.

[SigniferOne]

RH --

I'm afraid the ideas you proposed are impossible. And for more than one reason, for example even if the shield-bearer could be implemented as a 3rd or 4th soldier, there would be no way to prevent him from spinning on his axis to face the enemy, as all soldiers in the turrets or in chariots turn whichever way they choose. So there'd be no way to make him stand still... unless he was part of the chariot or elephant model itself... And besides, the choice of which animations from the skeleton get assigned to how many soldiers is hardcoded -- movement anims are hardcoded to be used by the driver, and all other anims by the soldiers in the turret/chariot.

As for weapon being deleted, as far as I know the game does it automatically, and can't be modded. But also, I thought that both the shield and the weapon are removed for the driver, not the weapon only...

1h --

I truly don't know if my anims will work with 1.2, but there is some doubt because I know 1.5/1.6 introduces some changes to the anim file structure. But maybe that won't break it for 1.2, who knows. You can give it a try.

[alin]

RH --
I truly don't know if my anims will work with 1.2, but there is some doubt because I know 1.5/1.6 introduces some changes to the anim file structure. But maybe that won't break it for 1.2, who knows. You can give it a try.

They will work for sure, i've done this to the 1.2 pack after i've finished the 1.5 and no problems. Only the new skeleton files must be done for 1.2 since the ones from 1.5 have some extra functions wich can only be used by 1.5 rome exe.

[Red Harvest]

Thanks, SigniferOne,

That is what I expected: the hardcoding prevents addition of another animation and particularly one what would not turn.

As for the shields/spare javelins, the 1.3/1.5 skeleton does not automatically delete them for the chariot or for the elephant. One of those(elephant) was yours, but the other I tested was from CA's chariot jav skeleton. This is probably because the crew were originally non-shield bearing models in both cases. Let me check in GMAX...yep, looks like CA have deleted the shield in the CAS file even for the British heavy chariot with swordsman (the entire entry is gone.) Remember that most of the crew are archers who have no shield...but they made a special model for this other. So it looks like CA did the automatic primary weapon delete for the driver, but not the shield delete. That's good news if you want a driver with a shield...bad news if you don't.

[Red Harvest]

SigniferOne,

One other animation question for you related to mounts: can you mount a second rider on a horse/camel in any fashion? I tried adding "riders 2" with a second "rider offset" entry with appropriate new coordinates, but it would kick out a mount file error every time. I was expecting to have trouble with the skeletons (2 firing...or one seated, one standing, depending on what skeletons I tried to use with it) but I wasn't expecting to get clipped by the mount file. The unit I had in mind was from an old Assyrian relief attacking camels with one "driver" in front and one archer behind.

A much more complex unit would be trying to model the Assyrian reliefs of early tandem horse archers where one rider held the reins for another's mount while the 2nd fired. I think the horses could be tied together using a fake/non-existent chariot, and the riders could be placed on them but getting two seated animations would be a problem...they would have to be custom built.

[SigniferOne]

Yes I believe that's possible, as I've seen RTR people create an elephant with no turret, and with two archers in "sitting" posture behind the driver. The thing there however was that the two archers swiveled around the axis even if it clipped through the elephant's skin, so I guess the way they did that whole feature was remove the turret from the model, and simply place the two soldiers one after another, and give them both the mounted animations, which wouldn't be too hard to do. But there's no way to stop them from swiveling and clipping through the elephant, as far as I know.

[GODzilla]

Hi SigniferOne,

just wanna ask if there's any way to combine your animations with a few of the EB animation pack. Though your's are obviously the better ones ( :wink: ) there are some EB ones I may be interested in. Of course the two-handed-pike-animation, for instance. Or just tell me you're currently working on your own two handed animation and I'm quiet .

Is it possible? If so...how?

Thanks in advance.

[AlCord]

@GODzilla

Just 8 posts above he wrote to use XIDX to merge them. In EB animations Thread alin posted a link to something like that, I think http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...t=42785&page=2

PS.: If you are gonna to merge them, I am interested by an email of you

[GODzilla]

@GODzilla

Just 8 posts above he wrote to use XIDX to merge them. In EB animations Thread alin posted a link to something like that, I think http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...t=42785&page=2

PS.: If you are gonna to merge them, I am interested by an email of you

I'll surely try, but gimme some time. I just started modding a new copy of rtw and this is going to take a while before finished (and hopefully still working then ).

[Lusted]

Just wanted to say Sig, absolutely amazing work with the animations. I love them all especially the hoplite and gladius ones.

[Red Harvest]

I would like to get the two handed animations into SigOnes' pack. (I've looked a bit at the animations files trying to figure out how to do this, but I'm not really sure what should go. The files looks jumbled--including CA's which have some CAS files that won't import properly, from the 1.3/1/5 patch.) I also suspect SigniferOne will be doing an update with the new CAS importer mentioned in another thread?

[GODzilla]

After I tried it out it appears that the EB two-handed pike animation is bugged in some way. Beside the fact that it looks a little weird, the units tend to shake up and down, sometimes they need hours to finally get into the right position and when moving forward the formation breaks into pieces / the soldiers of the last two rows can't follow the formation.

So sorry, I'll wait until someone makes a better one...mhm...who could be this "someone"?

SigniferOne, please tell me you're at least planning to make a two-handed pike animation!!

[alin]

just wanna ask if there's any way to combine your animations with a few of the EB animation pack. Though your's are obviously the better ones ( :wink: ) there are some EB ones I may be interested in. Of course the two-handed-pike-animation, for instance. Or just tell me you're currently working on your own two handed animation and I'm quiet .

I respect you opinion and agree that sig has done some great work but have you even tested them?!
And if they are so bad why don't you try and help to improve them with any suggestions or by finding any bugs.

I would like to get the two handed animations into SigOnes' pack. (I've looked a bit at the animations files trying to figure out how to do this, but I'm not really sure what should go. The files looks jumbled--including CA's which have some CAS files that won't import properly, from the 1.3/1/5 patch.) I also suspect SigniferOne will be doing an update with the new CAS importer mentioned in another thread?

Well check this tutorial and if you have any question or problems don't hesitate to ask them.
tutorial

After I tried it out it appears that the EB two-handed pike animation is bugged in some way. Beside the fact that it looks a little weird, the units tend to shake up and down, sometimes they need hours to finally get into the right position and when moving forward the formation breaks into pieces / the soldiers of the last two rows can't follow the formation.

It's clearly from here that you didn't tested before the animations and imho find it wrong to compare someones work with another without knowing exactly about it or testing it. Those problems you mentioned are from the eb OB, Prometheus made them(as you may noticed from the skeleton names) and since it was his first time to work with animations he didn't tought about what problems could they of caused to the gameplay however they were fixed in the new animation pack wich also includs some new skeletons.

[GODzilla]

I respect you opinion and agree that sig has done some great work but have you even tested them?!
And if they are so bad why don't you try and help to improve them with any suggestions or by finding any bugs.


Well check this tutorial and if you have any question or problems don't hesitate to ask them.
tutorial


It's clearly from here that you didn't tested before the animations and imho find it wrong to compare someones work with another without knowing exactly about it or testing it. Those problems you mentioned are from the eb OB, Prometheus made them(as you may noticed from the skeleton names) and since it was his first time to work with animations he didn't tought about what problems could they of caused to the gameplay however they were fixed in the new animation pack wich also includs some new skeletons.

I'm sorry if I insulted you in any way, this was NOT my purpose.

On the other hand how can you possibly think I didn't tested these animations??? I mean, I wrote about issues that could not just be guessed out of the...nothing.

I tested the animations for sure! Otherwise, how could I write that the units are flickering up and down sometimes without a test? How could I say that sometimes it takes too long for the men to get into two-handed position? How could I write that the formation loses it's coherence when moving?

Dude, I didn't just dream this. I downloaded the EB beta, installed into into a fresh copy of rtw v1.2 and tried it with seleucid phalanx pikemen agains close-combat infantry of the carthaginians. Just 1vs1.

I'm sorry if this makes you sad. Critics is always hard, I do know that! :wink:


PS: Back then when I wrote that SigOnes animations are the better ones I didn't mean that there was any bug with your animations. And yes, in this case you was right, back then I didn't tested them.

My expression that SigOnes are the better ones was based on a simple analysis of the featured animations. So I decided for myself that I like many of SigOnes animations and only a few of yours.

After that post I tested your animations and found more proof that I personally like SigOnes animations better. For instance I like the romans to hold their gladii close to the shield pointed to the enemy when defending.

I'm sorry if you got this wrong! It was just an expression of personal taste. Also please be aware that I actually didn't wrote your animations would contain any bugs back then. Just relate to the facts :wink: .

[alin]

I'm sorry if I insulted you in any way, this was NOT my purpose.

I didn't got insulted however i would of liked to hear your, and everyone else, opinions of how to improve the animations.

On the other hand how can you possibly think I didn't tested these animations??? I mean, I wrote about issues that could not just be guessed out of the...nothing.

Since you pointed out that problems today and not before you wanted to merging the anim packs.

I tested the animations for sure! Otherwise, how could I write that the units are flickering up and down sometimes without a test? How could I say that sometimes it takes too long for the men to get into two-handed position? How could I write that the formation loses it's coherence when moving?

Yeah you said this after you tested them but note before when you compared the two packs.

I'm sorry if this makes you sad. Critics is always hard, I do know that! :wink:

What critics since i really don't see any, if by saying that someone work is better is critic that would mean that you encourage that person to do the same thing as the other one wich is clearly wrong.

Sp I'm sorry if you got this wrong. It was just an expression of personal taste. Keep in mind that I actually didn't wrote your animations would have any bugs back then. Just relate to the facts :wink: .

I didn't got it wrong, i wan't to encourage people to point out any mistakes, bugs and any sugestions they have in mind so you should check the threads and see that there aren't many.

PS: Back then when I wrote that SigOnes animations are the better ones I didn't mean that there was any bug with your animations. And yes, in this case you was right, back then I didn't tested them.

Well this is the only thing it disturbed me and wich i tought wrong, how can u compare something if you haven't tested it.

My expression that SigOnes are the better ones was based on simply analysis of the featured animations. So I decided for myself that I like and need many of SigOnes animations and only a few of yours.

As you said it's a matter of taste and everyone has the right choose what they like.

After that post I tested your animations and found more proof that I personally like SigOnes animation better. For instance I like the romans to hold their gladii close to the shield pointed to the enemy.

Well see this is what i would like to hear but until now none had complained about this so how should i be able to improve the animations without anyone saying anything.

I'm sorry if you got this wrong! It was just an expression of personal taste. Also please be aware that I actually didn't wrote your animations would contain any bugs back then. Just relate to the facts :wink: .

You did mentioned that it contains bugs and those were fixed in the new anims pack and here's to remind you:

After I tried it out it appears that the EB two-handed pike animation is bugged in some way. Beside the fact that it looks a little weird, the units tend to shake up and down, sometimes they need hours to finally get into the right position and when moving forward the formation breaks into pieces / the soldiers of the last two rows can't follow the formation.

So i would suggest down the lastest eb anim pack and if you have any sugestions or find any bugs let mew know. And btw believe me that i'm used with critics if you have forgot i work with eb. :wink:

[Trajan]

I downloaded the EB beta, installed into into a fresh copy of rtw v1.2 and tried it with seleucid phalanx pikemen agains close-combat infantry of the carthaginians. Just 1vs1.

You do know that those animations already included in the EB beta are not updated right? alin released a EB Animations Pack 0.81 which includes a lot of fixes to the animations like the flickering up and down associated with the two handed pike skeleton and etc. As for SigniferOne's animations, I remain a big fan and I do hope that he comes out with some new animations in the future.