The Fifth Age - Middle Earth's future.

[SigniferOne]

Heres why I'm making a Fifth Age. I love LOTR. I love Tolkien. I love history. I love creating things. I hate Lore maniacs and their desire to tear everything down or make a LOTR mod play out EXACTLY as it happened in the books.

Forgive me for insisting, and I won't after this. But -- nothing of the Fourth Age happened in the books. There will be no possibility for the Lore Police to come after you, because they'll be equipped with nothing. If you make it 4th age, it will be compact enough and relevant to the rest of the LOTR mythology. If you make fifth age, then, why not 10th age? Then you'll really have nothing to worry about. When you start loosening things like that, you basically lose connection to all of the rest of the mythology you're purportedly writing within. Even Fourth Age struggled with keeping players, because everything that people loved about LOTR mythology (elves, dwarves) were gone in it. It is a very fine line between striking your own niche in an already-established mythology, and using that mythology as a crutch to write your own story that really has no relevance or connection to anything outside of it.

[James the Red]

SigniferOneForgive- "nothing of the Fourth Age happened in the books"

Well, somethings have happened in the fourth age in the books, during the rule of King Aragorn and Queen Arwen. But very little is said and nothing is said after Arwen dies.

[Renown]

Hey mate. Guess what?

I'm making it a Fifth Age mod.

I have my reasons for this, and the extended time perioid is necessary. You're just going to have to trust me.

As to the books, there are mentions of after the Third Age, and specific references to Elves and Dwarves.

They will BOTH be in this mod, in various incarnations.

Now, if people want to see what the Middle Earth COULD REASONABLY be like in the Fifth Age, they will have a chance.

Now I'm going to have to ask you not to post detracting remarks like you have. You are an Artifex, you should know better.

Thanks

[James the Red]

Will Forodwaith, Forochel, Sun lands continent and Darklands continent gonna be in in some way? Or any fanfic continents or lands?

[Renown]

We are extending the traditional ME map further North, East and South.

South will be where the new descendants of Rohan are... along with another enemy of Gondor.

North... well thats where one of the evil factions is based out of.

East .... plenty of things going on over there.

[A1_Unit]

Let me guess. The faction coming out of nowhere will have upgraded tech?

[Renown]

One of the evil factions will be semi-mythical and therefore have dark forces at its command, some... stretching as far back as the first age.

The second evil faction will indeed be more technologically advanced then others in ME, and is evil particularly because of the sentiment that "Power Corrupts".

but almost all factions will be able to upgrade their techs.

I plan on releasing in three main chapters.

One - The start of the Fifth Age with the fall of the RK (It's power as you shall see, is very worthy of a new age when it falls)

If the Third Age was the Rise of Men, then the Fourth Age was their Golden Age. The Fifth Age is their decline.

At the end of the Fourth Age... the RK expanded as far north as Forodwrath, and the northern snowy wastes. To the South it included Umbar, Harondor and parts of Harad and further south in the wastelands. It expanded as far East as the anduin vale in the north, including various settlements around the mountains. It also included all of old Mordor, and parts of Rhovavion. In it's entirety it occupied a good half or more of the Third Age map of Middle Earth. It's was a huge force, and kept things stable. It did not have ambitions in the north, only to quell opposition - hence it's semi-conquest of Rhovavion, and it's aggression against forces South of Umbar.

When the RK split, it split because of the division of Arnor as already described. What I have not mentioned is the Vale of Anduin, and Rhovavion are also now seperate entities with diverse people... including large Gondorian numbers of settlers. They both have a back story and will have close ties with Gondor.

Dale, is a large power as well, larger then in the Third Age, and is driven primarily by mercantile interests. I seek to make them similar to Venice/Milan/Swizterland (i know 3 different powers in a number of ways) in our 15-17th centuries.

Erebor is a diminished power after a brief resurgence in the beginning of the Fourth Age. By the end of the Fourth they will be fewer in number then at the end of the Third. Dwarves will also be (in small numbers) dotted around the landscape of ME, including in parts of Mordor, old Rohan, and Khazad-dum.

[General Meevious]

Gamgee picked the Lord Tolas (and his beautiful new wife) to serve as his second in command

This really necessary? Personally, I don't think you need to make up romantic fanfics for all of your generals. Maybe you can leave that to the AARs?

This evil leader is immortal, and has been mentioned previously in Tolkien's works.

Oh , it's Tom Bombadil!

I'm not sure that it makes sense to have both elves and dwarves so severely diminished in a "fall of man" setting. Perhaps it makes sense to have elves as only mercenaries, (though I would like to see an incursion from Valinor, triggered by some great insult by Gondor in its dying breath), but it seems that dwarves would thrive in the situation you describe. Dragons are few, trade is good... no orcs... to have their number diminished seems a strange choice.

[Renown]

Dwarves are diminished due to Tolkien. Don't Blame me. By the last few centuries of the Fourth Age 1/3 of the Dwarven population is female. That imbalance means a dying race. Sorry mate.

As for my own Romantic fanfic... um... dude? pay attention it is ALL fanfic. or I suppose you prefer that romance is kept out of novels and literature? I'm not making an AAR. I'm making a backstory. You don't like it.. mneh, doesn't bother me.

Elves had two territories during the Fourth Age. Elves did not simply 'diminish' they lost the power of the rings in both Rivendell and Lorien. However, the calling of vailnor only affected those who felt it - usually by seeing the sea. They had colonies in Ithilien and the Woodland Realm. And those are just the elves that tolkien wrote about in the 2nd and 3rd ages.

The Rise, Golden, and Fall of whatever race is dependent on their POWER not their existence.

I do suspect that the 6th Age (if it so followed my 'era') would be that of desolation.

[A1_Unit]

Dwarves are diminished due to Tolkien. Don't Blame me. By the last few centuries of the Fourth Age 1/3 of the Dwarven population is female. That imbalance means a dying race. Sorry mate.

As for my own Romantic fanfic... um... dude? pay attention it is ALL fanfic. or I suppose you prefer that romance is kept out of novels and literature? I'm not making an AAR. I'm making a backstory. You don't like it.. mneh, doesn't bother me.

Elves had two territories during the Fourth Age. Elves did not simply 'diminish' they lost the power of the rings in both Rivendell and Lorien. However, the calling of vailnor only affected those who felt it - usually by seeing the sea. They had colonies in Ithilien and the Woodland Realm. And those are just the elves that tolkien wrote about in the 2nd and 3rd ages.

The Rise, Golden, and Fall of whatever race is dependent on their POWER not their existence.

I do suspect that the 6th Age (if it so followed my 'era') would be that of desolation.

Whoa, whoa! Finish this mod first!

[General Meevious]

I'm not taking a jab or anything, just making suggestions, as there are a few things you seem to be planning that would appear to the casual observer as likely to drain fun and therefore waste your time for no apparent reason.

Dwarves live for quite a while and with the significantly diminished death rate during the recent "golden age" (which, though the golden age of the dwarves is long gone, would affect them just as profoundly as the humans, being their allies and primary traders... the culling of orcs, goblins and dragons, the rise of Dale, the inescapable territorial free for all after the war of the ring...) the race would not be "dying" with a 2 male:1 female ratio. Unless you plan on introducing some sort of deadly dwarf specific disease, it just makes little sense. Of course their race is destined to never outnumber the humans, but peace and prosperity would certainly raise their population from that at the end of the third age unless there were some other unspoken menace.

Yes, of course the mod is "fanfic", but it is also a Total War mod. I think there are quite a lot of people who would prefer no romance at all in any TW mod, but just as importantly, the remainder are likely to enjoy creating their own relationships in-game. I don't think forcing your own ideas of romance upon users is wise, as I can't think of a single group of people who would benefit from the decision in the long run. It's important to include some sort of backstory to explain the factions and the units, but beyond that it starts to restrict the game in a negative way.

As for the elves, yeah, there are still quite a lot at the end of the third age, but the vast majority aren't in the part of Middle-earth to the west of Rhun or have no intention of remaining there. I would presume their might insufficient to merit a faction of their own unless some huge force is sent from Valinor or the Avari lands.

[Renown]

the game wont be restrictive.

[{II}Sovereign]

Fourth age wouldn't be that restricted either and seeing how it is 4 that comes after 3...

[arcsquad12]

hey Renown, I have a great idea for this.
you said that you know history right? well, suppose the eastern factions have invented gunpowder weaponry! China had created gunpowder centuries before any european culture had seen it, so maybe the easterlings, being asian influenced, have invented bombs!
how cool would that be, easterlings in their golden dragon scale armour with muskets!

[Renown]

Fourth age wouldn't be that restricted either and seeing how it is 4 that comes after 3...

Perhaps I have specific ideas that would not fit within the narrow timespan that bridges the 3rd Age and 4th ?

There are steps I take that require age.

The fall of the RK would hardly seem appropriate snce it has just been created...

[General Meevious]

True, but you assume the fourth age is as short as a couple of thousand years... an age could last a decade or it could last for ever. Anyway, I'm sure the "fifth age" setting is fine, as long as your world is changed enough to merit the title. Bear in mind though that Tolkien considered modern times to be in the sixth or seventh age... there is a pretty damned big difference between Arda in the third age and the modern world.

hey Renown, I have a great idea for this.
you said that you know history right? well, suppose the eastern factions have invented gunpowder weaponry! China had created gunpowder centuries before any european culture had seen it, so maybe the easterlings, being asian influenced, have invented bombs!
how cool would that be, easterlings in their golden dragon scale armour with muskets!

There are western spies embedded in eastern territory... I don't think the eastern nations of men could disguise a discovery like that for long enough to mass produce its resulting weaponry (the blue wizards in particular, I believe would alert the west immediately)... the Avari, however... I'm not an expert, but I can only recall one tangibly encountering westerners since the other houses migrated west and even then it was a single traveler in the first age. This traveler was an immensely skilled craftsman, was capable of killing with poison and had little regard for the culture and people of the west. The western elves begin to wane as the third age draws to a close, forcing many to either depart for the immortal realms or live under the protection of rings of power, sheltered from what seems for some reason or another to be an increasingly intolerable environment for them. This would force the Avari, in their distant realms, into a technological revolution, in their desperation to carry on undying in the mortal continent, they could advance quite quickly and unnoticed. Perhaps they stumble upon gunpowder in the same way that human alchemists did in ancient China - searching for an elixir of immortality - remember that the Avari are known to have traditions of poisoning and metalwork. Still with no solution and beginning to grow very weak, the Avari have a civil war; firearms turn the tide in favor of those who support deserting their most fundamental traditions and marching west to join their kin in Valinor. The Avari horde encounter men for the first time in millenia and react much like the Eldar when they first met the Petty Dwarves - by slaughtering them. The fact that the men they would encounter would doubtlessly be horrible Easterlings makes this quite probable. There would be too few Eldar in the ranks of men to even be noticed by the Avari war machine, especially as, due mostly to their fading health, they would prefer to kill at great range - made possible by their recent surge in technology.

If this is not what Renown is planning, I'm stumped.

[Brightgalrs]

Something about a dragon cult inventing gun powder seems so right.

[A1_Unit]

Something about a dragon cult inventing gun powder seems so right.

No Saruman already made gunpowder.

[arcsquad12]

No Saruman already made gunpowder.

true, but he didn't make rockets or mortars or muskets!

[A1_Unit]

Can you imagine Dragons creating muskets? (Big NO!)