Are one-night stands morally acceptable [PowerWizard vs mkesadaran] Commentary Thread

[Shams al-Ma'rifa]

Yea so this debate is entitled "Are one-night stands morally acceptable". I take the position that one night stands are morally wrong and PowerWizard takes the opposite stance.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=267965

[Confederate Jeb]

Go mkesadaran!

[Shams al-Ma'rifa]

yay fan club my first debate btw.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

I hereby predict this will quickly degrade into slaps of "my religion is righter than yours" and "I don't give a damn to what your holy book says".

[Shams al-Ma'rifa]

luckily, we agreed on a clause that prevents any religion bashing, for the most part. we agreed not to post any strawmen and take religious beliefs into regard.

[Phier]

Its rather difficult to argue that two consenting adults engaging in sexual activity is somehow morally unacceptable, provided they are not harming other people in the process (aka an affair).

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

I hereby predict this will quickly degrade into slaps of "my religion is righter than yours" and "I don't give a damn to what your holy book says".

Please keep negative comments and spam outside of the commentary thread, thanks.

luckily, we agreed on a clause that prevents any religion bashing, for the most part. we agreed not to post any strawmen and ,ust take religious beliefs into regard.

Its rather difficult to argue that two consenting adults engaging in sexual activity is somehow morally unacceptable, provided they are not harming other people in the process (aka an affair).

That's what I'm thinking too, but I find this topic interesting nonetheless, and will try to counter all points raised by my opponent.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

Please keep negative comments and spam outside of the commentary thread, thanks.

Nothing, it's just that this kind of debate is fairly predictable, especially if conducted in the Ethos. Luckily both take the authority of the Bible seriously, so it might wind up as a midly fruitful theological inquiry instead of plain disagreement.

[Ummon]

Fun but sinful, and sinful is evil. Have a nice debate.

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

Fun but sinful, and sinful is evil. Have a nice debate.

Sinful why?

[Ummon]

Because in Biblical terms the goal of sexuality is reproduction inside marriage, and because the pursuit of pleasure has a corrupting influence. Of course, we are all more or less willing sinners with this regard. Willing sinners who would really like the rules to be more flexible.

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

Citing from the Bible, Song of Songs

Song of Solomon 1

1 Solomon's Song of Songs.


Beloved [a]

2 Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth—
for your love is more delightful than wine.
3 Pleasing is the fragrance of your perfumes;
your name is like perfume poured out.
No wonder the maidens love you!

4 Take me away with you—let us hurry!
Let the king bring me into his chambers.


Friends

We rejoice and delight in you [b] ;
we will praise your love more than wine.

Beloved

How right they are to adore you!
5 Dark am I, yet lovely,
O daughters of Jerusalem,
dark like the tents of Kedar,
like the tent curtains of Solomon. [c]

6 Do not stare at me because I am dark,
because I am darkened by the sun.
My mother's sons were angry with me
and made me take care of the vineyards;
my own vineyard I have neglected.

7 Tell me, you whom I love, where you graze your flock
and where you rest your sheep at midday.
Why should I be like a veiled woman
beside the flocks of your friends?

Friends

8 If you do not know, most beautiful of women,
follow the tracks of the sheep
and graze your young goats
by the tents of the shepherds.
Lover

9 I liken you, my darling, to a mare
harnessed to one of the chariots of Pharaoh.
10 Your cheeks are beautiful with earrings,
your neck with strings of jewels.

11 We will make you earrings of gold,
studded with silver.

Beloved

12 While the king was at his table,
my perfume spread its fragrance.
13 My lover is to me a sachet of myrrh
resting between my breasts.

14 My lover is to me a cluster of henna blossoms
from the vineyards of En Gedi.

Lover

15 How beautiful you are, my darling!
Oh, how beautiful!
Your eyes are doves.
Beloved

16 How handsome you are, my lover!
Oh, how charming!
And our bed is verdant.
Lover

17 The beams of our house are cedars;
our rafters are firs.

[Garrigan]

I honestly dont see why it would be. It is not judged immoral to have sex within a marriage, and I presume that is because it is thought of as being done with the intention of creating a child?

If so, then is any kind of sex using contraception immoral as it cannot produce children? Is it immoral if one of the partners is infertile?

If its the marriage ceremony itself, is sex within common-law marriages sinful? What about if its just not a Christian marriage; is sex between two muslims sinful as they havent undergone the "proper" wedding ceremony?

Or does it basically just boil down to how you interpret various different Bible passages on the subject?

[Ummon]

Citing from the Bible, Song of Songs

That is not about carnal pleasure. Or more precisely, not about carnal pleasure alone.

[Phier]

Because in Biblical terms the goal of sexuality is reproduction inside marriage, and because the pursuit of pleasure has a corrupting influence. Of course, we are all more or less willing sinners with this regard. Willing sinners who would really like the rules to be more flexible.

You've gone back from amorphous god blob with subtle signs to it says so in the bible god?

[Theodotos I]

I find mkesadaran's last argument very interesting. While it might be argued that his representation of extreme worlds is a form of straw man, I don't see it that way. It might be better to represent the positive utopia as a place where fornication is impossible, rather than merely unlawful--because illegalizing it would not eradicate it. It is the nature of man that laws will be broken.

[Ummon]

You've gone back from amorphous god blob with subtle signs to it says so in the bible god?

If you believe in the Bible as an inspired (in matters of religion) book, it is relevant, you see. Better amorphous blob god for you, rather than amorphous argument objectively.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Two people {or more} in certain instances sharing personal & intimate interest in one another. If it's between consenting parties, what the harm? although I have no proof on hand I'm sure many a solid union have been formed in this fashion.....

[War lord]

Has anyone acctuly ever heard of a ONS that has happened while both partys were fully sober,sane and unmarried and said ONS harmed noone?I did'nt think so.

[Mega Tortas de Bodemloze]

Has anyone acctuly ever heard of a ONS that has happened while both partys were fully sober,sane and unmarried and said ONS harmed noone?I did'nt think so.

Asked and answered perhaps....Possibily not for me or you but surely by someone , somewhere, just wishing to know the other party... By folks that don't drink for example...