Oil is not a "fossil fuel" after all?

[Destroyer Joe]

With all this talk about "Peak Oil" and the "end of cheap oil" and whatnot, is the most basic premise of such arguments, that oil is a biotic, nonrenewable resource, a false one?

http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr52.html

[Mooshie]

I sure hope so, it would take some stress off things. But we should still start using something cleaner.

[TheBagelmeister]

I dont think we should rely on oil forever, considering its a dirty source of fuel, and non-renewable. However, I doubt the oil situation is quite as dire as people say.

They are very large deposits of non-conventional oil sitting around, such as shale and tar oil.

[Gelatinous Cube]

I say we get crackin' on Electric Cars. Or, better yet, Nuclear Powered Cars. I'd drive one.

[EeSang]

I would love to see what happens when some idiot lets his nuclear powered car have a meltdown. That or what that idiot would do with the waste.

[Gelatinous Cube]

I would love to see what happens when some idiot lets his nuclear powered car have a meltdown. That or what that idiot would do with the waste.

My god, don't get me started on that. Yes, Meltdowns occur with Nuclear Power, but only when you have a superemely incompetent staff(ala Chernobyl).

Nuclear Power can be extremely useful. Although the waste can be a problem, I'm sure we'll find some way to use it in the future.

[internationalist]

My god, don't get me started on that. Yes, Meltdowns occur with Nuclear Power, but only when you have a superemely incompetent staff(ala Chernobyl).

Nuclear Power can be extremely useful. Although the waste can be a problem, I'm sure we'll find some way to use it in the future.

I dont really think that massive nuclear power plants are a good solution to the energy problem that is inevitable as human populations increase and finite reasources decrease. The most convincing discussions I've heard all point to smaller, more localized power sources-photovolteic cells, solar power towers (solar panels arrayed such that they form a hyperbolic "mirror" that magnifies and projects sunlight onto a receptor) and things such as that. Instead of thinking of solutions for our consumption, we as a race should try to slow down consumption.

[EeSang]

My god, don't get me started on that. Yes, Meltdowns occur with Nuclear Power, but only when you have a superemely incompetent staff(ala Chernobyl).

Nuclear Power can be extremely useful. Although the waste can be a problem, I'm sure we'll find some way to use it in the future.

First, car users in general have much more incompetent people than Nuclear Power Plants. If you somehow managed to fit a small nuclear, no matter how low powered, it's almost guaranteed to have atleast one moron let it explode. I mean, we're talking about a society where people drink and drive and do all that other non-sense.

The only sure way to avoid having harmful waste is to have Cold Fusion reactors, which contrary to the name, requires insanely high temperatures to create nuclear fusion at the moment. We're a long way off from nuclear powered cars, but electric is just as good.

[Gelatinous Cube]

I dont really think that massive nuclear power plants are a good solution to the energy problem that is inevitable as human populations increase and finite reasources decrease. The most convincing discussions I've heard all point to smaller, more localized power sources-photovolteic cells, solar power towers (solar panels arrayed such that they form a hyperbolic "mirror" that magnifies and projects sunlight onto a receptor) and things such as that. Instead of thinking of solutions for our consumption, we as a race should try to slow down consumption.

There are alot of better ways to go about it than Nuclear Power plants, but it'd be far too costly. The infrastructure is already there to make a full move to Nuclear Power, however, should the need arise.

[internationalist]

First, car users in general have much more incompetent people than Nuclear Power Plants. If you somehow managed to fit a small nuclear, no matter how low powered, it's almost guaranteed to have atleast one moron let it explode. I mean, we're talking about a society where people drink and drive and do all that other non-sense.

The only sure way to avoid having harmful waste is to have Cold Fusion reactors, which contrary to the name, requires insanely high temperatures to create nuclear fusion at the moment. We're a long way off from nuclear powered cars, but electric is just as good.

hydrogen burning power plants are a much better idea than cold fusion...?

[MaximiIian]

:wub: the Environment.
We are humanity, and none shall stand in our path.

Cold Fusion is a good idea, though.

[Marshal Qin]

That article made a lot more sense than I thought it would. It started talking about a few oil fields that seem to be self renewing and I thought that perhaps he was going to say that those few examples mean that oil isn't going to run out. But when he went on to the 50 years of russian scientific research and the proven results of that research with deep drilling, it certainly shook my ideas about what oil is. It shouldn't have really. I pride myself on what i think is my ability to see a bigger picture, but I never questioned the validity of the term 'fossil fuel'. Combined with the known methods of large corporations it actually makes a lot more sense to believe what he wrote .

I guess the only thing I have to say is that maybe the cost of extracting oil through deep drilling is higher than the benefit - though this is partially refuted by the success of the russian oil fields, and may well be just another argument that oil industry people will use to hike prices.

very thought provoking...

[Turek The Terrible]

I guess the only thing I have to say is that maybe the cost of extracting oil through deep drilling is higher than the benefit - though this is partially refuted by the success of the russian oil fields, and may well be just another argument that oil industry people will use to hike prices.

Well, oil is in the Top Trio along with guns & drugs. Its what makes this (hyper-capitalist) world go around..

[Guderian]

Wow thats crazy. Dont know whether its a good thing or a bad thing though. Knowing that humans are lazy buggers if oil was a renewable theyd never invent a cleaner source of power.

And why hasnt the Modern Russian-Ukrainian Theory of Deep, Abiotic Petroleum Origins been released in the "west"?

Thought provoking indeed.

[cunobelin]

I've always wondered why all the waste nuclear rods werent put into a rocket and fired into the sun ?

[TheBagelmeister]

hydrogen burning power plants are a much better idea than cold fusion...?

Where do you get the hydrogen from? Its not naturally occuring in its elemental form, and you still need energy to extract it.

I've always wondered why all the waste nuclear rods werent put into a rocket and fired into the sun ?

You ever seen a rocket explode on the orbit? Remember Challenger? I doubt people would be too happy about having radioactive fuel rods falling in their backyard, or burning up in the atmosphere.

_____________________________________________________________

I think you're all talking about nuclear fusion, not cold fusion. Cold fusion are debunked a few years ago, although there is some recent evidence it might not be BS after all, but I doubt it would break breakeven.

For the short term, I'd go for nuclear, its clean (if you dispose of the waste properly), and you don't need to be as dependent on other nation's for fuel. There are some very safe designes (look up Pebble Bed Reactor). Combine that with a hydrogen economy, and I think we'd have a good solution to oil and other fossil fuels.

[Shadowflare]

That article made a lot more sense than I thought it would. It started talking about a few oil fields that seem to be self renewing and I thought that perhaps he was going to say that those few examples mean that oil isn't going to run out. But when he went on to the 50 years of russian scientific research and the proven results of that research with deep drilling, it certainly shook my ideas about what oil is.

I saw the research mentioned in that article just a few months ago, and it does makes a lot of sense. I thought that the 'fossil fuel' concept was absolutely ridiculous even when learning it in school. It certainly is thought provoking.
My concern is how long it would take for public perception to change in light of this research. It seems that the idea of 'fossil fuels' is pretty deeply engrained into the public psyche.
Also, as already mentioned, this research could prolong research into cleaner fuels if it turns out that oil really is a natural renewable resource. This certainly brings a few issues to table.

[Erik]

(from the article)

As anyone who stayed awake during elementary school science class knows, oil comes from dinosaurs. I remember as a kid (calm down, folks; there will be no Brady Bunch references this week) seeing some kind of 'public service' spot explaining how dinosaurs "gave their all" so that we could one day have oil. It seemed a reasonable enough idea at the time -- from the perspective of an eight-year-old. But if, as an adult, you really stop to give it some thought, doesn't the idea seem a little, uhmm ... what's the word I'm looking for here? ... oh yeah, I remember now ... preposterous?

Oil comes from Dinosaurs?????

Maybe that's what they taught him at elementary school, but it's not what adults beleive.
No, Oil comes mainly from plants and small shell creatures.
(hence the name "Shell" for the Dutch/English oil company)

Of course there weren't enough dinsaurs create all the oil, but there was enough plant material.

Another version of the 'fossil fuel' story holds that microscopic animal carcasses and other biological matter gathered on the world's sea floors, with that organic matter then being covered over with sediment over the course of millions of years. You would think, however, that any biological matter would decompose long before being covered over by sediment. But I guess not. And I guess there were no bottom-feeders in those days to clear the ocean floors of organic debris. Fair enough. But I still don't understand how those massive piles of biological debris, some consisting of hundreds of billions of tons of matter, could have just suddenly appeared, so that they could then sit, undisturbed, for millions of years as they were covered over with sediment. I can understand how biological detritus could accumulate over time, mixed in with the sediment, but that wouldn't really create the conditions for the generation of vast reservoirs of crude oil. So I guess I must be missing something here.

You need oxygen to decompose plant materials and that's in short supply on the bottom of the sea.

Of course there were no huge piles of biological debris, it was all mixed with the sediment.

The oil accumilated over time into huge resevoirs because of the high pressure deep underground.
____

BOTTOM LINE:

This guy should read something about oil in stead of relying on what he picked up from elementary school.

[Perkele]

Wow thats crazy. Dont know whether its a good thing or a bad thing though. Knowing that humans are lazy buggers if oil was a renewable theyd never invent a cleaner source of power.

Sure 'they' would. Capitalism quarantees that, if there's a way to make money, it will be exploited.

[MaximiIian]

I've always wondered why all the waste nuclear rods werent put into a rocket and fired into the sun ?

Eh, something about it possibly exploding in the sky.