Suggestions and Feature Requests

[CaliGen]

As you pointed out, the issues I'm having with the widescreen function may be distorting the appearance of the units...because the proportions look almost deformed on my screen, but this may be an artifact. I will avoid making more comments on that until I get the time to sort the resolution issue in my game.

I am glad that this mod is described as being based on a thesis, and then people can play it as more of a theoretical/speculative view of history than 100% following "mainstream accepted history". We will never know the absolute truth after all since these times are gone and we can only look at stuff dug up from the ground and wonder (also known as "archaeology" =). For accuracy, I think Europa Barbarorum aims for this. I love that mod, but it runs so slow for me.

I still disagree with the amount of clothing of all northern clans. The 2 arguments for this were; clothes are hard to make and the other that soldiers would have removed clothes during the battle. I disagree that this should explain the amount of nudity depicted, for the following reasons=

Whilst the Greeks may have fought largely only in armor with perhaps only a tunic or nothing underneath, the more southern climates favored this, maybe even making it more comfortable during battle to avoid overheating. But I think the troops which had no armor at all, such as light skirmishers would still be clothed as there is no real reason for them to take off their clothes. If it was me, I would take off the clothes because (a) fabric is not going to stop/reduce weapons unless it is v thick or leather, and (b) I know that bits of fabric being forced into battle wounds is very sure to cause an infection, and before antibiotics this would be a major risk of death or disability, but would the ancients have known this? If you didn't know this, and it is not a very warm climate where you might overheat from running around in clothes, you are probably going to keep them on for the battle, no?

I do not think warriors of more northern territories would not remove clothes for the battle. In the original RTW, the Britons and the Germans were shown topless, and I think this is not accurate for the climate, even in Summer in good conditions for battle (as I mention before some people think that it was colder in Europe during this time). Some Barbarians perhaps would have fought naked for religious reasons and so show the woad tattoos, but the majority of their troops I think would be clothed. Also, just because clothes are hard to make during this time, doesn't necessarily equal near naked people. Even Neanderthals would have worn more furs etc than the northern clans shown. Sometimes there is a fur loin cloth shown, but nothing else.

I don't really have evidence to prove this, I am just trying to put myself in this time and I can see that it is impractical. It just seems to me that the female warriors in this mod are shown more "Hollywood" than trying for historic accuracy. In my mind's eye, the proposed female scouts / horse archers that are proposed by this mod would be clad like other steppe peoples, maybe largely in furs for the northern climates and less for the southern. Their hair would be cut short or braided at the back to keep it out the way. I honestly don't think they fight bare chested as this would get in the way of their fighting if anything. I fence, and chest protection for women is definitely needed, but modern fencing use blunt "swords" and maybe this not really relevant analogy

[CaliGen]

sry posted twice meant to edit only. Ignore first post.

[parthian shot]

This is great! I am glad we came to agreements on so many subject matters.

Among the Amazons Total War whitepapers, one of the threads is called the B.U.M. which stands for Balanced Unit Modeling (aka Parthian Shot's Laws). The theses in the thread specifically mentioned that non-peasant type light (or low cost) troops will not be issued uniforms and personal clothing will be discarded unless it is animal pelt type of clothing that fits the fighting style of that unit.

It would be helpful if you can spend sometime to review these papers and post your findings.

[CaliGen]

Sry, what do you mean by "white paper". In my country it means a proposed bill in parliament (i think) + do you have link. There is thread on this forum called " A Concept of Balanced Mod, aka Parthian Shot's Laws"

is this? I read this, but I honestly I still don;t think that female warriors would fight topless if they had no armor. Riding on a horse with only a loin cloth is also v unlikely. Also if they are scouts, then would be exposed to the elements and would likely be warmly dressed in a fur cloak or something in northern climates. Basically my suggestion is, there is no need for this much nudity, it is unnecessary and also probably unlikely.

I also have another suggestion for this mod. During battle it is hard to see what units you have selected. The green arrows I had to turn back on in the preferences file, so this is half fixed. The unit cards are often white background, so when they are clicked on to highlight them, there is no or very little change in the tone. Some backgrounds are darker, almost blue...and these work fine. It is a small issue but it really makes battles harder if you can;t clearly see which units are selected. This is not really bug, so I post here.

[knight of meh]

A white paper is an authoritative report or guide helping readers to understand an issue, solve a problem, or make a decision.
-wikipedia

i tried to say this but wikipedia said it better and you're right it is usually something to do with government or business to business marketing (i don't know what that last one is either lets take wikipedia's word for it...)

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-War-Reignited

i believe this is the white paper

[Katsoro]

Hay everyone I have some suggestions after playing as Libya amazona and Carthage. Okay first: Libya amazona uses Greek/Roman architecture but seeing as they are in Africa you would think they would use eastern/Africa architecture like Carthage dose.Second: Level 1 Practice ranges take 3 turns to build whereas barracks level 1 and 2 and stables level 1 takes 1 turn. I personally think one turn for level 1 Practice ranges would be fine because you'll still need a high level city to max out the Practice range and build any powerful siege weapons.Third: From what I understand slingers were used by every Mediterranean army, due to the free ammo dirt cheap production and good killing power (a stone/lead ball to the head will kill anyone). So maybe normal slingers could be added to all Mediterranean factions as a cheap low level unit and have there attack buffed a bit. (side note the roman pila had an effective range of 20 meters whereas the sling had an effective range 350/400 meters).Forth: The eastern music used for Carthage seems like it would go vary good with Libya amazona, I tried changing it myself but failed miserably.

[bibi g]

This is a great post, I will send emails to all dev-members who do not have an id at twc.

[Celestial shuttle buddy]

Hay everyone I have some suggestions after playing as Libya amazona and Carthage. Okay first: Libya amazona uses Greek/Roman architecture but seeing as they are in Africa you would think they would use eastern/Africa architecture like Carthage dose.Second: Level 1 Practice ranges take 3 turns to build whereas barracks level 1 and 2 and stables level 1 takes 1 turn. I personally think one turn for level 1 Practice ranges would be fine because you'll still need a high level city to max out the Practice range and build any powerful siege weapons.Third: From what I understand slingers were used by every Mediterranean army, due to the free ammo dirt cheap production and good killing power (a stone/lead ball to the head will kill anyone). So maybe normal slingers could be added to all Mediterranean factions as a cheap low level unit and have there attack buffed a bit. (side note the roman pila had an effective range of 20 meters whereas the sling had an effective range 350/400 meters).Forth: The eastern music used for Carthage seems like it would go vary good with Libya amazona, I tried changing it myself but failed miserably.

I think some of the suggestions are great, not sure you are aware of this, but the barrack only needs one turn because it needs the smith and trading post as infrastructure. The idea was to have infrastructure (road, trade, smithing) taking longer to build, the training facility,is just a facade or the result of capability, whichever way you look at it.

As far as the range of the slingers, we have had discussion before, as Subrosa's document advocated strong slinger stat. So Parthian Shot already boost the range to just a bit less than the archers. The issues is, we can say the slinger's range may reach 350-400meters, but it is not armor piercing at that range. And it is also wildly inaccurate at best.

[er_smith]

Hay everyone I have some suggestions after playing as Libya amazona and Carthage. Okay first: Libya amazona uses Greek/Roman architecture but seeing as they are in Africa you would think they would use eastern/Africa architecture like Carthage dose.Second: Level 1 Practice ranges take 3 turns to build whereas barracks level 1 and 2 and stables level 1 takes 1 turn. I personally think one turn for level 1 Practice ranges would be fine because you'll still need a high level city to max out the Practice range and build any powerful siege weapons.Third: From what I understand slingers were used by every Mediterranean army, due to the free ammo dirt cheap production and good killing power (a stone/lead ball to the head will kill anyone). So maybe normal slingers could be added to all Mediterranean factions as a cheap low level unit and have there attack buffed a bit. (side note the roman pila had an effective range of 20 meters whereas the sling had an effective range 350/400 meters).Forth: The eastern music used for Carthage seems like it would go vary good with Libya amazona, I tried changing it myself but failed miserably.

My feedback for

1. Use Carthaginian instead of Greek Structure
This is a good one, always thought Amazon is a bit closer to Parthia, Dacian, or Scythian myself.

2. Practice Range 3 turns, Barrack 1 turn
As Cel explained, couldn't say it better myself.

3. Slinger Revision
My gripe is slinger always more accurate at close to mid range. Parthian Shot described a method to have slinger using two type of missiles, one allows close rang shot with great accuracy, the other allows great range with less hit power and accuracy.

Roman slinger was supposed to use lead, as is amazon entry level pole sling units

4. Eastern music from Carthage for Amazons
Interesting idea.

Will post Jenn's feedback when I get her email

[bibi g]

My feedback for

1. Use Carthaginian instead of Greek Structure
This is a good one, always thought Amazon is a bit closer to Parthia, Dacian, or Scythian myself.

2. Practice Range 3 turns, Barrack 1 turn
As Cel explained, couldn't say it better myself.

3. Slinger Revision
My gripe is slinger always more accurate at close to mid range. Parthian Shot described a method to have slinger using two type of missiles, one allows close rang shot with great accuracy, the other allows great range with less hit power and accuracy.

Roman slinger was supposed to use lead, as is amazon entry level pole sling units

4. Eastern music from Carthage for Amazons
Interesting idea.

Will post Jenn's feedback when I get her email

Er,

I got Jenn's feedback in the email, since she is not a member of TWC, I will post for her here.

Jenn's comment...

"1. Amazon using Carthaginian Buildings instead of Greek Building
Amazon is more Dorian than Phoenician
2. Practice Range turns vs. Barrack
read Celeste's post and agree with her 100%
3. Slinger Revision
Unless dual missile can be used like the fire arrow and normal arrows, the slinger would be too powerful.
4. Amazon uses Eastern Music instead of Greek
I like it!"

[Katsoro]

Sorry for the late reply, I had no Internet for a few days.
1. Amazon using Carthaginian Buildings instead of Greek Building
The main resign I suggested Libya using Carthaginian Buildings instead of Greek is because there is little marble in Africa (what in game Greek buildings aper to be made out of) but tons of sandstone (what in game Carthaginian/Egyptian Buildings aper to be made out of).

2. Practice Range turns vs. Barrack
I had no idea about the mettle smith being needed for the Barracks because the level 2 Barracks is all I ever need (heavy skirmishers being the only foot solders you ever need).

3. Slinger Revision
Even if slingers don't get a range boost or anything I still think they should be usable by most factions at an early stage . After all it was one of the most widely used weapons in all Europe. Maybe a really low morale version can be recruited early on and then an actually trained version latter on.

4. Amazon uses Eastern Music instead of Greek
Glade to see someone likes the idea .

PS. my original post was supposed to have proper spacing but my Internet dose not get along with this site.

[bibi g]

Thank you for the clarification, we are still waiting for the other teammates to vote.

Parthian Shot stopped by, but has to get on the road again.

We probably won't have any consensus until she gets back.

Al test members please post your opinion and vote on this.

[wheeliepaul]

Er,

I got Jenn's feedback in the email, since she is not a member of TWC, I will post for her here.

Jenn's comment...

"1. Amazon using Carthaginian Buildings instead of Greek Building
Amazon is more Dorian than Phoenician
2. Practice Range turns vs. Barrack
read Celeste's post and agree with her 100%
3. Slinger Revision
Unless dual missile can be used like the fire arrow and normal arrows, the slinger would be too powerful.
4. Amazon uses Eastern Music instead of Greek
I like it!"

1 Carthaginian or greek building
Greek because findings on Greek vases shows strong resemblancesame with berber buildings .
2 Practice Range turns vs. Barrack
agree with CSB and ER
3 slinger revision
agree wit Jenn's comment, when this is possible i like the idea
4 Amazon uses Eastern music instead of Greek
no opinion in this one

[bibi g]

Thanks WP!

It is good to have our testing team member voted, I was feeling desolate of voices.

[bibi g]

Pea's vote

1. Amazon using Carthaginian Buildings instead of Greek Building
no
2. Practice Range turns vs. Barrack
same as Cel and Erika

3. Slinger Revision
nice idea but not doable

4. Amazon uses Eastern Music instead of Greek
can be done, but not making mod much better

[parthian shot]

Sorry for the late reply, I had no Internet for a few days.
1. Amazon using Carthaginian Buildings instead of Greek Building
The main resign I suggested Libya using Carthaginian Buildings instead of Greek is because there is little marble in Africa (what in game Greek buildings aper to be made out of) but tons of sandstone (what in game Carthaginian/Egyptian Buildings aper to be made out of).

2. Practice Range turns vs. Barrack
I had no idea about the mettle smith being needed for the Barracks because the level 2 Barracks is all I ever need (heavy skirmishers being the only foot solders you ever need).

3. Slinger Revision
Even if slingers don't get a range boost or anything I still think they should be usable by most factions at an early stage . After all it was one of the most widely used weapons in all Europe. Maybe a really low morale version can be recruited early on and then an actually trained version latter on.

4. Amazon uses Eastern Music instead of Greek
Glade to see someone likes the idea .

PS. my original post was supposed to have proper spacing but my Internet dose not get along with this site.

Since Bib is chairing this, I figure I finally got to vote.

1. Amazon using Carthaginian Buildings instead of Greek Building
I agree but the problem is the Libyan in the game belongs to the culture of Amazon, the other Amazon faction would not lack marble, granite, or lime stone (which was used to build the Pyramid). So there is an implementation issue,

2. Practice Range turns vs. Barrack
I agree with Cel

3. Slinger Revision
Even from the Subrosa days, Amazon Total War place a great deal of emphasis on the sling as a weapon. Like Erika mentioned I worked with Pea to come up with slingers with two missiles, a long range one and a close range one. But from the 6.0 series, I also supplied an anthropological thesis of the use of pole sling which the Amazons Total War mod has used abundantly.

read [here] on pole sling and other unique weapons of Amazons Total War

4. Amazon uses Eastern Music instead of Greek
Audio has been our weakest port of the mod, (that and the unit info). This is a refreshing idea.

[Totalwar14]

Hi I haven't posted in a while but I just played a few playthroughs on the mod.

Have you considered trying different eras for the mod? A barbarian invasion one for instance where you have the Amazons on the margins of the Roman Empire, or perhaps in substitution for some factions like the Sassanids/huns, or perhaps even largely doing what they were doing before with the Gorgons once again rushing out of the desert to reclaim their homeland. You could still essentially have the same current map since IMO most of the cities that were important then were important in that period as well. Basically, Amazons causing the fall of the roman empire would be pretty cool IMO. In fact you could present a united roman faction as a sort of ultimate challenge for the player to overcome, whilst obviously the solid rebellion mechanics and the challenge of the hoard would still remain for the roman player; with the others caught in the middle as they are in vanilla BI. I don't know, THE RETURN OF THE GEOTHE or something to that effect.

[parthian shot]

Hi I haven't posted in a while but I just played a few playthroughs on the mod.

Have you considered trying different eras for the mod? A barbarian invasion one for instance where you have the Amazons on the margins of the Roman Empire, or perhaps in substitution for some factions like the Sassanids/huns, or perhaps even largely doing what they were doing before with the Gorgons once again rushing out of the desert to reclaim their homeland. You could still essentially have the same current map since IMO most of the cities that were important then were important in that period as well. Basically, Amazons causing the fall of the roman empire would be pretty cool IMO. In fact you could present a united roman faction as a sort of ultimate challenge for the player to overcome, whilst obviously the solid rebellion mechanics and the challenge of the hoard would still remain for the roman player; with the others caught in the middle as they are in vanilla BI. I don't know, THE RETURN OF THE GEOTHE or something to that effect.

That is a great suggestion!

Also our dev-team has moved to a different location, hopefully temporarily, we are now at
http://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?144379-Amazon-Total-War-8-0-Release

[Nelduin]

Sorry if this has been already asked, but if I'm really happy to see all those new Amazon units, it ruins a little my immersion when I see all the vanilla units of the other factions. Are you planning to change it ? Moddeurs have done a lot of units packs, and I'm sure you could easily take them.

Nevertheless, good work .

[parthian shot]

Yes, we do have some selection, but if you have some units in mind please feel free to post.

Our dev-team has just moved to a new website, so many things are still in flux. Also we are planning port the mod to another game engine, perhaps M2TW, or Rome II. That is the reason the vanilla units are still in place.