My experiences with submods (RR/RC+more trade)

[XiombargDei]

I'll say it simply i'm disapointed. Those submods are very good and i know they are still in beta phase, or trials etc. TA:TW is realeased for only a month so they are still a lot of tweaking to bring in but still, i got bad experiences.

First i feel Rohan and Eriador are too strong with those sub-mods. One times out of 2 rohan kills Isengard in the first 20 turns. Then several turns later in the first 20-30 turns, Sylvan elves kills the OotMM. leaving only Mordor and harad to fight. This litteraly happens in 1 of my games every other. I think its because of the trade thingy, and maybe also the garrison script. evil factions being aggressive they attack the "good", the "good" gets 10x more units with the garrison scripts and then just roll on the "evil".

Eriador is a serious problem if you play High Elves. If you wait 20-30 turns to build up your economy and let the AI gets strong, you encounter 2 problems :
1. risk that Evil gets destroyed as stated above
2. risk that good expand far too fast, i.e. eriador taking ALL rebel settlements around it, leaving for the High Elves to meet victory conditions only one choice : fighting Eriador, which is very sad

The trade sub-mod is good. its always nice to tech fast and build big armies, but it should help the "evil" AI more. It would be coherent with the Lore, as in the begining Sauron and Mordor are not challenged, so they can throw hordes of Gobelins and Snagas onto the "good" powers and at the very least defend themselves.

So yeah i dont know whats causing such imbalance and i'm sure and trust it will get soften and fixed little by little. But for now i'm still trying to start a balanced and fun game to play.

Ps : I play High Elves on VH/VH. Its the third game in a row that before turn 40, Isengard and OotMM get destroyed

[Hellenikon]

Are you using the script costs of the more trade submod?

About Isengard-Rohan, is probably because Rohan gets much more money in trade. I wanted to give Isengard the basic mines already built, so that the costs where not so unbalanced. I´d also increase the king purse for the ai Isengard.

About Silvan elves and OOtMM, i don´t really know what could be the cause. I haven´t seen the silvan elves do much in my games.

I agree with you thought, if the player is made to expand slowly but the ai fast then it happens as you said, you as high elves are locked with any enemy to fight and all the rebels regions are taken. But that is logical... what do you think would be the solution? One thing that we could do is to remove the king purse also from some ai factions (all except the mining factions), that way they´ll get significant less money and expand slower. Still they´d have the garrison script to defend themselves.

It´s a game mechanic problem to play with factions which are locked between allies, and there´s not much we can do about it...

[Ragnarök]

It's mostly because good factions work togehter, they always fight the evil factions, and keep their alliances most of the time
The OrcsMM and Isengard are just surrounded by good factions, and with the better economy the good factions own the orcs pretty fast.

Before, the evil factions were dominating, thats why they did that good vs. evil tweak.

cheers

[XiombargDei]

well the solution would be to grant Isengard and OrcsMM a lot of money and better recruitment pool at the begining, say the first 20 turns, so they can defend and expand well. And if its possible lower this advantage little by little over the course of the game. But i dont know if this kind of dynamic money script is possible.

about the sylvan elves taking on the orcsMM, it seems the 2 last times i saw that happening is when the SE take Moria, when the orcs still have 4 or 5 settlements. Killing king and heir ? maybe, if so this should not happen.

cheers

[Achilla]

Tbh I would delete Eriador and create some petty 'hobbit' faction with two regions, crap units and no will to expand and defend beyond initial settlements. More rooms for the Elves, more to burn, rape and kill for Isengard.

[mastermindkar]

I don't speak for him, but I'm pretty sure Point Blank is simply going to tell you that RC/RR is not designed to be played in conjunction with the increased trade mod. You mix and match submods at your own risk, and he is not going to change anything if you happen to unbalance it. I've played two campaigns past turn 50 using the latest RR/RC update, and in both cases Isengard has survived (the first invasion usually takes Rohan's capital and steals some of their thunder) while the OOTMM have prospered, in one case siezing the Silvan capital.

Offhand, I'd recommend playing RR/RC straight up and using money cheats to increase/control expansion. Its is more controllable than the trade mod, and lets you boost flagging factions as you see fit.

[Disregard]

Im using RC/RR & ZZZZ's Campaign AI. So far I almost finished with my first campaign as Dale, Rohan pretty much owned the entire middle section of the map, along with Moria. This still still before 100 turns.

[gary0044187]

I believe the issue is that the Good v Evil Mod creates a 7v5. Not so bad but the initial map was not designed for this. Basically OotMM and Isengard are on their own against the combine weights of 2 elves, 2 human and a Dwarf faction. Once the neutral areas in the north west of the map are gone the only direction High elves and Eriador can go is through the orcs and isengard. In the North east it is little bit better because Rhun can hold up dale and the dwarves for a bit, but the dwarves are like a vice, pushing in from either side on the orcs.

I think what could help is a few things. I would suggest starting both Isengard and OotMM with a few of the nearby Neutral towns near them to give more cushion and cash flow, with a new look at starting garrisons to make sure they are adequite. Also, I suggest making them start Allied/Trade/Military Access. Perhaps also changing the diplomacy between them and Mordor as well and giving Mordor more territory in the forest.

[abbews]

And that would rape the lore!

[gary0044187]

And that would rape the lore!

like how elven territories grow from 500 to 30000 over the course of 25 years rapes the lore or like elves taking an active role in the war of the ring rapes the lore? sometimes you need to make sacrifices for game play.

[JonSnow]

The elves of Mirkwood and Lorien fought with Dol Guldur during the war of the ring, also Elladan and Elrohir fought at Pelennor.

[gary0044187]

The elves of Mirkwood and Lorien fought with Dol Guldur during the war of the ring, also Elladan and Elrohir fought at Pelennor.

but nowhere near the scale a total war game would allow for. which is why I brought it up.

[Abyrvalg]

And that would rape the lore!

Lore already is raped.
'Good ones' can win the war without sending Frodo with Ring in Mordor (what was only a chance in book and movie).
It looks more like Second Age and Last Alliance than Third Age, if you can overhelm Mordor in military terms.
This is obvious.
For all good factions war must be struggle for survival, not some sort of picnic in ruins of Isengard and Barad-Dur.

[Kiljaden]

And that would rape the lore!

like how elven territories grow from 500 to 30000 over the course of 25 years rapes the lore or like elves taking an active role in the war of the ring rapes the lore? sometimes you need to make sacrifices for game play.

sometimes you need to make sacrifices for game play.

game play.

it's all that matters.

Seriously though, this entire thread should be More Trade's thread.

[gary0044187]

you are making me think I stutter