Laca's Numidians - wip

[maximusminimus]

Yes they do!

[wangrin]

Awesome

Could you also make a modified version of the Garamentes, with spear as primary weapon (for the "mounted garamentes) ?
And maybe (if it is possible) for the foot Garamentes, sling as primary weapon and spear as secondary weapon.
In the Osprey book, they said that : "His spear, with distinctive holes in the blade, was made in Sudan, and he his otherwise armed with a sling."

I'm seaching for symbols wich can be use by Numidian, maybe inspire from modern Berber ?

[maximusminimus]

I'm seaching for symbols wich can be use by Numidian, maybe inspire from modern Berber ?

Maybe some of the symbols used by the carthaginians like the sunburst (for Baal) and the Tanit symbol wouldn't be out of place for the numidians.

edit: or the crescent.

[wangrin]

Numidians (or Berbers) are a very odl culture. They were here before the Carthaginians.
For exemple, berber have their own writing.
Of course, during the History, the were influenced by others cultures : Iberians, Celts, Greeks, Carthaginians, etc.


I've found some symbols wich can be used (maybe on shield too) : http://www.tamurth.net/article.php3?id_article=626
http://www.tamurth.net/article.php3?id_article=606

sorry, but texts are in french...

[LAca]

Thanks for the links wangrim. I understood some of the french text and these are interesting background info. I couldnt help imagining the numidian ss with a swastika on his shield... hail Jugurtha...lol (i thought that the german swastika was based on an indian or tibetan symbol)
And that sling might be a good idea (no need for another unit) - just replace the slingers with the garamantes (and move them lower on the tech tree). Maybe remove the archers. I want to make a mounted unit, but based on the mesh for the new militia (with that animal skin and all).

[LAca]

Here are the numidian javelinmen.. and a skin upgrade for the regulars (a darker skin colour):
The javelinmen have spears as secondary weapon. I have to work on the textures a bit, but overall they will look something like this.

[Epirote]

You have got to stop creating so good skins.
I have reached 299 troops and I used already 3 of your skins for numidian.

Exellent job.

Congratulations.

[Tulius Hostilius]

Excellent, as always!
Just two suggestions: I think the shield of the Javelinmen could be improved, it could be a bit simpler, I mean, less elaborated… and it could be better that he had no “shoes/boots” (caligae).

The face is a must…

[Maximus I]

now thats what i call talent. I liked your skins for counter strike and i love them for total war

[Goose]

AWESOME models and skins LAca. Cant wait for the release of these.

[maximusminimus]

Awesome work LAca! But i'm with Tulius concerning the shield.
Keep on the good work!

[antaeus]

out of curiosity - and supporting the addition of heavier units in numidias armies in the game... ,

julius caeser talked at length about the later numidian armies..

in support of the legionary idea, he mentions the fact that numidia did use soldiers trained to follow standards in legionary fasion, he never mentions anything of their armour or dress - just that they used javlins and could be relied upon to stand their ground in a melee and march in order. they were few in number though and only acompanied the numidian leaders.

he also mentions that the numidian leaders surrounded themselves with some numbers of gaulish and iberian heavy cavalry, and that they were the only truely heavy cavalry used by numidia.

and the one thing that the game has not really touched upon, is the number of elephants that caeser claimed to come up against. that were used with mixed cavalry in support. he suggests that the numidians used elephants in numbers not seen since fighting the greeks a century earlier.

there is also an explanation for the emergence of heavier infantry used in particular by juba against caesar, and that is that by this time the urban population of numidias towns had a maturing population decended from carthaginian refugees of the wars the previous century. they brought with them skills not available to earlier numidian armies.

Massinissa himself encouraged carthaginians to settle after the carthage went into decline simply for the wealth that they brought in through urbanization - and according unrv.com - even at the time of the vandal invasions Phoenician decendants were still the chief ethnic group in north west african cities.

this would suggest to me that heavier units in the game should be available, but only in the cities along the coast. those deep in the desert probably should only be able to raise the berber style light infantry and cavalry. mercenary gaulish cavalry maybe should be recruitable as well...

[wangrin]

this would suggest to me that heavier units in the game should be available, but only in the cities along the coast. those deep in the desert probably should only be able to raise the berber style light infantry and cavalry. mercenary gaulish cavalry maybe should be recruitable as well...

I think it's easy to implement, using hidden ressource (both in the export_descr_building and descr_regions)

About javelinmen, is it possible to give them a sheepskin like the garamentes ?
Maybe could you also create a "painted" version of the javelinmen's shield ? And, if possible, including symbols... (maybe "the fly" / la mouche, symbol of hastiness and eagerness, or "the bull" / le taureau, symbol of blind and irresistible strength)

[LAca]

About the heavier infantry... these regulars or auxiliaries are not heavy at all... they have some armour (4) but they dont really stand a chance against other advanced infantry - the thing is that the numidians have small towns and you can get them later than other factions (at least me). And the legionaries are a post marian unit and im thinking about giving the unit some requirements like foundry - that can be built only in advanced cities. The idea of allowing the more advanced infantry to be built only in the cities along the coast seems good (but what you do when you conquer new territories? - maybe excluding the smaller desert towns from the recruit list...?). And the desert inf - they should be recruited only from the desert settlements?
The shield isnt elaborated at all - maybe in these pics isnt visible - its the same shield that the militia had but scaled down - its made up of wooden plancks nailed together - if you guys have an idea how it should look, go ahead, im open for suggestions - preferably some pics if possible.


I was thinking about making an elephant mounted javelin unit - its even possible in the rtw engine? I have little time to mod, if someone would try it out and tell me if possible, i would appreciate it.
I wont add the sheep skin to javelinmen, but i will to the numidian cavalry (based on the pic from the Osprey book).

[antaeus]

i am pretty sure people have tried to do an elephant mounted javlin and failed. it features as one of the games default backgrounds...

[wangrin]

Is it possible to have a link to download Numidian Militia and Javelinmen ?

[LAca]

Not yet... I will post them, be sure about it, but not right now.

And here it is a barefoot javelinman:

[fallingstar]

I love this one LAca, by the way are you planning on making a numidian reskin project, something like that, because most of your work consists of numidian soldiers, I assume they are one of your favourite factions?

[LAca]

My favourite faction is the one im playing with... But i got to skin the numidians because i work for the ptw mod and my first assignment was a numidian unit (the garamantes). Then i saw that the faction is kinda poor in units, most of them are reskins. After this i might go back to the seleucids to redo the legionaries (my first ever rtw model) and the phalangites.
I want to remake the whole numidian faction, but its kinda slow because i dont have much time to spend on it. But i will finish it sometimes - i have to make the numidian cavalry, archers, generals unit and im thinking to make the garamantes slingers (after all, on the osprey pic the guy has a sling) but with the same melee stats. I was thinking about elephant mounted javelinmen too, but that does not seem to be possible within the rtw engine - but i have to make an elephant unit nonetheless cause the numidians used them extensively.

[Tulius Hostilius]

The shield could be made of “twig”/”stick”, I mean, “bush wood”, I don’t know the exact word.

A wooden shield would have a higher price in the desert or in arid areas, so a Javelinmen couldn’t afford it.

It’s just an idea.

Edit:
A tiny example:



A good example would be the shield of the original Desert Infantry with some realistic colors.

And I think they look better without the shoes/boots.