Laca's Numidians - wip

[wangrin]

I've the Osprey - MAA 243 - Rome's Enemies 5 - The Desert Frontier, but I can't post scans here... I'll post them on RTR forum (http://www.rometotalrealism.com/phpb...hp?p=6453#6453)

It seem numidian use javelin more than archer...

[maximusminimus]

Hannibal used Numidian archers on his campaigns (2000 of them i think). Can't remember where i've read it though.
But i think wangrin i right too, their light infantry were mostly the javelinners.

[Xanthippus of Sparta]

Those look to be some great Numidians....especially the Legionary....

However remember that most Numidians didn't wear any armor...not even a helmet. Only the nobility could afford it.

[LAca]

I read somewhere that their roman trained units wore helmets at least. It is conceivable that at least some of them (i think of the elite troops) they had some sort of light armour like leather... I based the auxiliaries on that assumption - on the dba online site they had imitation legionaries wearing mail armour but i think that is a bit far off.
I made the legionaries cause the game had them and i read about them from other sources aswell ( those sites about miniature soldiers out there on the net). Their armour isnt that high tech, it is basically the auxiliaries leather armour with some lamelles sewn on it. Their helmet wants to be a mix of influences like the roman and carthaginian. I also made this unit post Marian.
(I think numidians would be a colourless faction if they would have only a rag tag army of barefoot javelineers)
So, i have to make a foot unit wearing only a tunic with javelins to replace the javelineers, and a mounted one with a small shield - and a slinger unit that looks about the same with a pouch for ammo.

[wangrin]

The numidian legionaries were an "elite unit" trained by Roman officers. Moerover, even if Numidian were not abble to make such armors, they could buy them to equip their elite troops.
Of course, the recruitment cost should be very high to reflect this.

Auxilliaries are a good way to have well trained but less expensive troops.

So, if we want to be historically accurate, camels should be remove because they were not introduce in North Africa before the late Roman Empire or Middle Age.
But, it is also easy to create a new camel cavalry with a "mounted" Garamentes.

I think the javelimeer and the mounted version could be inspired by the Berber horseman from the plate A of Osprey - MAA 243 - Rome's Enemies 5 - The Desert Frontier. The horseman wears a sheepskin over the tunic, a bit like the Garamentes.

About archer or slinger, I don't known... maybe the same model than the javelineer ?

[{Pharaoh}Anubis{Pha}]

still w8ing on those phalanxes to use sword =P i didn't get a reply from e-mail did you get them? they came with screen shots and some files.

[wangrin]

I think that Garamentes shouldn't have the ability to throw javelin, they were more spearman infantry. Moreover, is it possible to give them a longer spear ?
I've tried to mounted them on camel. The only problem is that, in the anim, they have a javelin in their hand and not a spear (as the camel riders)... so, they look as a missile mounted troop instead of "lancer"... but, it work.
On the other hand, when I want use them as missile camel mounted troop (give them the ability to throw javelin before charging with spear), game crashed...

So we have :
- Heavy elite infantry : Numidian legionnaries (well trained, disciplined, very high moral, should have a very high recruiting cost and need 2 turns (or 3) to be trained - professional soldiers)
- Heavy / Medium infantry : Numidian Auxilliaries (well trained, disciplined, good moral but lesser effective in fighting, should have a high recruitment cost and need 2 turns to be trained)
- Light Infantry : Garamentes (untrained, impetuous, should have a low or very low recruitment cost but a higher upkeep cost because they were rose from vassal tribes and need to return home after the war... )
(- Camel Cavalry : in fact a mounted Garamentes to replace the Camel Riders witch look far too modern, even if Camel were not introduced in north Africa before the end of the empire)


We need :
- Missile Infantry : Javelineer
- Missile Cavalry : a horse mounted unit using the javelineer (primary attack : javelin / secondary attack spear)

[Idomeneas]

well dont get me wrong but i think that those units dont blend in with the rest of RTW style. Plus the faces has a caricature-comic style. That doesnt mean its not good work but aesthetically is far away.

[LAca]

Maybe you are right about the camels... I did remove the long shields on my rtw... The game is more of a challenge this way.
You must edit the .cas file to remove the javelin and make the spear primary weapon.. And the javelin thing i saw on the osprey pic - the garamante has both spear and javelin in his hands - and if im not mistaken, a sling too.
The auxiliaries are intended to be a light-medium infantry (look at their armour stats) and to have an acceptable price and upkeep- their training and attack is not that good as the legionarie's, and i intended them to be the main infantry for the numidians - in the late game they are not a match for most infantry anyway. Their only advantage is that thay have both spears and swords.
And about the legionaries - i already have them as post marian reform units, maybe they should have some more prerequisites such as a foundry or something like that - their price at about 600 and 200 upkeep should be suffice.
And the javelineer unit is the next on my list.

[{Pharaoh}Anubis{Pha}]

Laca in witch order do i put the garamante .cas files? it didn't come with a example to look at.
could you also provide read me.txt like you have with your numidian auxiliers so it would make it easier for ppl to understand how to add them correctly,needed for garamante and numidian regulars.

[jedisponge]

Nice looking skins. Just curious LAca, are you the same LAca of Counter-Strike fame?

[wangrin]

Dans DATA / descr_model_battle :

type numidian_garamentes
skeleton fs_fast_javelinman, fs_fast_spearman
indiv_range 40
texture numidia, data/models_unit/textures/numidian_garamante_warrior
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/numidian_garamante_hp.cas, 8
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/numidian_garamante.cas, 15
model_flexi data/models_unit/numidian_garamante_lp.cas, 30
model_flexi data/models_unit/numidian_garamante_very_lp.cas, 40
model_flexi data/models_unit/numidian_garamante_very_lp.cas, max
model_sprite numidia, 60.0, data/sprites/numidia_numidian_spearmen_sprite.spr
model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f

type numidian_camel_garamentes
skeleton fs_hc_spearman
indiv_range 40
texture numidia, data/models_unit/textures/numidian_garamante_warrior
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/numidian_garamante_hp.cas, 8
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/numidian_garamante.cas, 15
model_flexi data/models_unit/numidian_garamante_lp.cas, 30
model_flexi data/models_unit/numidian_garamante_very_lp.cas, 40
model_flexi data/models_unit/numidian_garamante_very_lp.cas, max
model_sprite numidia, 60.0, data/sprites/numidia_numidian_spearmen_sprite.spr
model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f

Dans DATA / export_descr_unit

type numidian desert infantry
dictionary numidian_desert_infantry ; Garamentes
category infantry
class light
voice_type Medium_1
soldier numidian_garamentes, 40, 0, 1
mount_effect horse +2, chariot +1, camel +1
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hide_long_grass, can_sap, very_hardy
formation 1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 4, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 7, 3, javelin, 50, 6, thrown, archery, piercing, spear, 25 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown
stat_sec 6, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.5
stat_sec_attr spear
stat_pri_armour 0, 5, 5, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat -1
stat_ground 2, 2, -2, -2
stat_mental 7, impetuous, untrained
stat_charge_dist 40
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 350, 180, 40, 60, 390
ownership numidia


type numidian camel garamentes
dictionary numidian_camel_garamentes ; Numidian Camel Garamentes
category cavalry
class light
voice_type Medium_1
soldier numidian_camel_garamentes, 27, 0, 1
mount camel
mount_effect elephant -8, horse +2
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, hardy
formation 3, 4, 5, 5, 4, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 9, 9, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0 ,0.7
stat_pri_attr no
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 25 ,1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 0, 5, 5, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat -2
stat_ground 0, 2,-6,-2
stat_mental 10, impetuous, untrained
stat_charge_dist 40
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 450, 150, 60, 80, 520
ownership numidia

Dans DATA / export_descr_unit_enums

numidian_desert_infantry
numidian_desert_infantry_descr
numidian_desert_infantry_descr_short

numidian_camel_garamentes
numidian_camel_garamentes_descr
numidian_camel_garamentes_descr_short

Dans DATA / TEXT / export_units

¬----------------

{numidian_desert_infantry} Garamentes

{numidian_desert_infantry_descr}
Impetuous\nCan Hide Anywhere\nHardy\nSapping Ability\n\nThese hardy folk from the fringes of the Sahara make excellent spearmen, well suited to defending against cavalry. They are tough troops used to eking out an existence in the unforgiving desert periphery. The prospect of a punishing march across great distances to these robust people is almost as familiar to them as the passing of each day. Equipped with spears and large shields of wood and animal hide, battle holds few fears for these people - life in a desert gives people a certain fatalism.\n\nThey are some of the best fighters available to Numidian commanders, but their lack of formal training is a slight weakness.

{numidian_desert_infantry_descr_short}
These hardy folk from the fringes of the Sahara make excellent spearmen, well suited to defending against cavalry.

¬----------------

{numidian_camel_riders} Numidian Camel Garamentes

{numidian_camel_riders_descr}
Impetuous\nHardy\nBonus vs. Cavalry\n\nThese hardy folk from the fringes of the Sahara are 'camel lancers', exploiting the speed of their mounts and the fear effect that camels cause to horses. The kings of Numidia are wise indeed to exploit this pool of skilled fighters. These are also a hardy people, and can put up with many privations thanks to their desert upbringing.\n\nThey are not the strongest cavalry in the world, but they can surprisingly effective against both infantry and especially other (horse) cavalry. Armed with spears and carrying large shields, they are not at their best in protracted melees, but used as hit-and-run raiders they can be very effective.

{numidian_camel_riders_descr_short}
These tough desert warriors are camel lancers, exploiting the speed of their mounts and the fear effect that camels cause to horses.

¬----------------

It is very easy to mount a foot unit...

[{Pharaoh}Anubis{Pha}]

Wanga your instructions were/are a peice of pure ****! i followed it threw and got ctd's and tried for well over an hour to re-type the crap you put up but still got ctd's :-(

LACA! please! add a read me file for your garamantes and your numidian regulars as you had them for your numidian auxiliers,the numidian regular zip is crap,when i unzipped them everything came out without there perspective folders for freindly user use to add them easy,the garamante zip wasn't much better :-(

[LAca]

Anubis, i will post the entries from my txts later this day. If u install new skins, ,be sure that the ids in your export_descr_unit.txt match those from the descr_model_battle.txt. The ctds come as a result of something not being right in descr_model_battle.txt, export_descr_unit.txt, export_buildings.txt (these files are parsed at startup - if the ctd comes when beginning a battle, then the 3d files or textures are not referenced correctly). It may be the ids used to identify the units not matching (one id in export_descr_unit.txt and another in descr_model_battle.txt) or the formatting of these files..
When copy pasting something, be sure that in the respective txt the newly pasted content matches the formatting from other sections.

And yes, im the one with the cs skins...

[wangrin]

Wanga your instructions were/are a peice of pure ****! i followed it threw and got ctd's and tried for well over an hour to re-type the crap you put up but still got ctd's :-(

Sorry, but those texts come from my own export_descr_unit and others files and it work fine for me (I use RTR 5.1).

[LAca]

Also, there must be only 1 section with a given type name - for example, in the export_descr_unit.txt if you add the section listed below, it will crash the game IF u dont remove the original section.

Here they are:

export_descr_unit.txt:

type numidian desert warriors
dictionary numidian_spearmen ; Desert Infantry
category infantry
class light
voice_type Medium_1
soldier numidian_spearmen, 40, 0, 1
;mount_effect horse +4, chariot +4, camel +4
attributes sea_faring, hide_forest, hide_long_grass, can_sap, hardy
formation 1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 4, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 7, 3, javelin, 50, 5, thrown, blade, piercing, spear, 25 ,1
stat_pri_attr prec, thrown
stat_sec 6, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 25 ,0.73
stat_sec_attr spear
stat_pri_armour 0, 5, 5, flesh
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat -1
stat_ground 2, 2, 0, -2
stat_mental 7, normal, untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 1, 350, 200, 40, 60, 350
ownership numidia

descr_model_battle.txt

type numidian_spearmen
skeleton fs_fast_javelinman, fs_fast_spearman ; combat spear
indiv_range 40
texture numidia, data/models_unit/textures/garamante_warrior
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/garamante-hp.cas, 8
model_flexi_m data/models_unit/garamante.cas, 15
model_flexi data/models_unit/garamante-lp.cas, 30
model_flexi data/models_unit/garamante-very-lp.cas, 40
model_flexi data/models_unit/garamante-very-lp.cas, max
model_sprite numidia, 60.0, data/sprites/numidia_numidian_spearmen_sprite.spr
model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5f

export_descr_unit_enums.txt

numidian_spearmen
numidian_spearmen_descr
numidian_spearmen_descr_short

[{Pharaoh}Anubis{Pha}]

Thank you Laca =) boy! those garamantes look good =P now if you can give zip up the numidian regulars with the files in there seperate folders so i can add them correctly =P that would be Great! =)

p.s. and if you be willing to redo the .cas files for the numidian auxiliers to make them just use there swords,swordsman cause those are some very nice swords and the cpu not use them or when i put them on ai they not use them.

[Tulius Hostilius]

Laca, do you intend to release the Garamantes mounted on horses and on camels?

I mean, you already have the skins, but will you add the unit cards and info cards?

[LAca]

If i am to release something i will do it with ui pics aswell... i kinda like making them...
The problem is that i dont have time to do everything i would like to... last weekend i remade the regulars again... They lacked detail and the color scheme wasnt that pleasing either... Here it is the latest version (still has some minor tweaks to be done for the mesh and textures):



As soon i am done with this one i will make the javelinman model based on this one:

http://www.dbaol.com/armies/army_53_figure_1.htm

[Enemy]

New regulars are looking very nice!