A Rare Symposium Topic: The Curia

[Obi Wan Asterix]

Our old Curia keeps plugging along bravely.... as always more "citizens" seek the ego trip of being the one person to tear her down. I for one, think that someone someday will manage to sway a vote and dump her into the blue oceans of ordinarity....

Let me illustrate my concern with a parable from history, the social experiments in Aragon at the outbreak of the Spanish Civil War where all hierarchy was rifled and spontaneous citizen organizations tried to live in complete anarchy... end result: the Communist Cadre's with their ultra-hierarchy and organization took over.

In short there are mechanisms in humanity which make such utopian endeavours fail repeatedly... another human mechanism is one of overconfidence in would-be ego-tripping revolutionaries convinced that they can do better.... but the track record is against them.

Last point, if anyone feels insulted thus far: I consider the spirit of leading others to revolution deeply egoistic in a negative sense. For me a Che Guevera was only a slight cut above a Norman Schwarzkopf both leading others to their them to fulfill their subjective bias.

I strongly advise, and implore, lets leave the Curia as is, it has been more than good enough over these years, and I keep seeing people trying to deeply knock it off pace.

Further online reading:

http://books.google.pl/books?id=4AKt...esult&resnum=7

http://pubs.socialistreviewindex.org...j69/durgan.htm

http://www.stuartprice.org.uk/articl...mm_article.htm

http://home.flash.net/~comvoice/10cSpanishCivil.html

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

I strongly advise, and implore, lets leave the Curia as is, it has been more than good enough over these years, and I keep seeing people trying to deeply knock it off pace.

Obi, I don't quite understand what you are proposing here. Could you please rephrase it and point us to specific posts and threads that led to these thoughts?

[Obi Wan Asterix]

I am starting a discussion about how far is too far regarding Curial reform...

We just saw another proposal to move the Prothalamos to the public forums.... and there are constant attempts to de-Curia the Curia... give it to the public and stop the citizen structure.

I firmly believe that the current setup regarding citizenship and the Curia is nearly optimal, and openning it to the public would be a major blow to its survival.

I openned this thread to dig deeper and discuss the premise of revolution, and link our TWC experience to it.

This is not just a gaming forum! TWC is a model eGovernment, something our kids will use to shape their political environment and determine our grandkids future

[Romanos IV]

I can do nothing but agree with you. I learnt politics from here, I learnt about the society -and the relationship between them- and I also learnt how these things function. To finish with, I learnt the value of democracy and having a say to whatever concerns me. I learnt through TWC and the Curia, more specifically, what takes to understand in a decade in RL. This is my very personal opinion and owe a big thanks to all the people that made the Curia and maintain it till today. Thank you.

[Augustus Lucifer]

Well if we aren't going to abolish the Curia... then who do we get to VonC?

[Halie Satanus]

I wouldn't worry to much Asty old boy. There will always be new generations of snot nose knuckle dragger's trying to unseat the old silver backs, it's the natural order of things. All you need do is throw poo and fart in their general direction and they will always turn tail.

The Curia is far more than the sum of it's parts.

[Marie Louise von Preussen]

With me on the front door the rabble will never get through. That's all.

[Desperado †]

What can be the negatives of allowing any user to post in the Prothalamos? It is far from your example Obi, as only we will be allowed to vote, and even then the Curia is still only some opinion polls for Hex to ponder on.

[Belisarius]

Letting users in the Prothalamos? I would not oppose to letting some members in, good constructive members!

But good constructive member = should be made a civitates.

Its also unfair to members, so we get a badge for being constructive and they dont?

Also, spend 5 seconds in the pit and you wont want the curia doors open!

[Squid]

Letting users in the Prothalamos? I would not oppose to letting some members in, good constructive members!

How can they be constructive if they can't offer up new suggestions and can't give their opinion on existing ones in a way that gets noticed?

But good constructive member = should be made a civitates.

Not even close to the truth, currently the only way to become a citizen is either to do modding or to be able to debate well or for content staff work. None of these three make a citizen any better to be able to be constructive to the running of the site.

Its also unfair to members, so we get a badge for being constructive and they dont?

Being constructive != Making a contribution

Look at those citizens that are Artifex for example, how many Artifex's have been constructive to the running of the site through the curia, or heck even the CB? Yet they have all made contributions that make them worthy of being citizens. Although I except the numbers to be higher for Civitate I don't think it would be significantly higher.

Also, spend 5 seconds in the pit and you wont want the curia doors open!

The ones who are bad in the pit are the ones who aren't likely to ever be in good standing, so they would never be able to post in the Prothalamos under my proposed legislation.

Also who even says that those people who want nothing more than to rant will even care that can post ideas for changing how the site runs.

[Garbarsardar]

Every single one of TWC's glorious leaders tried to reform that Curia one way or the other. Ranging from deletion, selective deletion, empowerment, partial empowerment, conditional empowerment, suspension, coercion, blackmail to at least four rewrites of the constitution (that I am aware of), I think there is no trick that has not been tried and no administrative intervention that has not used Curia as a political science playtesting platform . The present glorious leader is convinced that only the Curia could reform the Curia in any meaningful way and he is currently adopting the passive-progressive approach which basically boils down to abject nihilism.

[Aldgarkalaughskel]

The present glorious leader is convinced that only the Curia could reform the Curia in any meaningful way and he is currently adopting the passive-progressive approach which basically boils down to abject nihilism.

With all due respect, Sir, this seems to contradict a previous statement of yours...

Hence my opposition to this bill. I prefer the body of citizens to be spared from the illusion of control by the offer of such gimmicks.

[Obi Wan Asterix]

With all due respect, Sir, this seems to contradict a previous statement of yours...

For a man with a great and timely, meaningfull sig you fail to appreciate the exhalted presence of our great leader who has abjectly decided to take no approach whatsoever towards the Curia making him a genius of hands on policy

His nihilist wisdom exheeds the below-the-imaginary-belt antics of all future, past and present dictators who chose to play democratic puppet masters on TWC.

His absence of content is content in itself.

So therefore the moral of the day is: do everything without changing anything, and do it with all you enthusiasm the day after tomorrow.

See him and hear him, for if Dick Chenney and Albert Camus had an androgenic child.....

Garbie is our barbie,
Barbie is our Garbie.

Again I do praise you for the righteousness of your banner and wonder where good old Nihil has gone he used to be drawn like a Saharan fly to these virtual-honey conversations.

Virtual hugs all around.

[Muizer]

Ah Asterix, you incorrigible sentimentalist! Perhaps you can survive on a diet of nostalgia alone, but can the citizenship? What if by not changing, the citizenship is becoming an increasingly marginal feature of the site?

[Obi Wan Asterix]

Ah Asterix, you incorrigible sentimentalist! Perhaps you can survive on a diet of nostalgia alone, but can the citizenship? What if by not changing, the citizenship is becoming an increasingly marginal feature of the site?

Sentiment and beetroot can keep us alive!

***barf***

The unchanged has always been marginal on this site... Garb would you volunteer for a lynching to that end to feed the masses with sentiment of eras past? To give us an impression that history, however nostalgically, indeed doeth repeat itself?

Marginality is not futile! It feeds conspiracy, it feeds the subconcious sentiment of the two-dimensionally questioning masses (Ortega y Gasset meets Marcuse hrrmmmphhff excuse me)

We need statues! @Simetrical @Rahl? Can you two geezers whip something up?

Statues will keep the Curia alive!

A bust of IMB should do the trick - Perhaps he is not fat enough, too Cesar-esque

Garbie-barbie, could you reach into your knowledge of alchemy and whip us up a save-the-Curia potion? A little protect-the-prothalamos Suvlaki perhaps?

[Garbarsardar]

With all due respect, Sir, this seems to contradict a previous statement of yours...

There is no contradiction; but you are right to point that out. The first statement you quote (in the Symposium) presented my opinion as site's owner and administrator. The second (from the Curia) my opinion as citizen. Yes, I am also confused by my dual role; should you dig in the proth you will realise that I was always an over the top romantic Curialist and probably part of that "me" still lingers.

And I stand by both statements. Only the Curia can reform the Curia and reform should not be focused on the offer of gimmickry but in achieving a more influential status. How will that happen? It will when Curial practices become fully transparent and inclusive and demonstrate direct benefit to the day to day function of the site. (And yes this is Garb.-citizen talking.)

[Obi Wan Asterix]

There is no contradiction; but you are right to point that out. The first statement you quote (in the Symposium) presented my opinion as site's owner and administrator. The second (from the Curia) my opinion as citizen. Yes, I am also confused by my dual role; should you dig in the proth you will realise that I was always an over the top romantic Curialist and probably part of that "me" still lingers.

And I stand by both statements. Only the Curia can reform the Curia and reform should not be focused on the offer of gimmickry but in achieving a more influential status. How will that happen? It will when Curial practices become fully transparent and inclusive and demonstrate direct benefit to the day to day function of the site. (And yes this is Garb.-citizen talking.)

Garb thou those not address me when thou art addressed? Is this yet more existentialist flirtation ?

Anyhow, Garb has always been the romantic Curialist I can confirm that subjectivity as my own as well. As all good romantics we get our buts chewed regularly by the cold realisms of this carcass-locked life....

I also second the subjective view of curial mechanisms as being best blah blah

Lets just start drinking now and do romantic things

[Belisarius]

Garb, I'm disappointed with your general lack of everything at the moment.

[Obi Wan Asterix]

Garb, I'm disappointed with your general lack of everything at the moment.

Garb lacks nothing in every way!

[Belisarius]

He does, he should be pampering us with Praetorians and Greek wine.